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I recall the tau found an "abandoned" starship of unknown origin at the edge iof their solar system just as they reached the limits of it, and never reflected on how convenient that was.

Supposedly tau use a shallow warp drive that just skims the surface of the warp, never fully leaving realspace and making them not need navigators and relatively immune to warp storms and daemons, but it onlly like 20% as fast as imperial warp travel under good conditions.

The tyranids must have ftl travel but I can't say I have heard how they do it. Genestealers can apparently travel in unprotected spacehulks without much trouble from chaos.

So does anyone know the curret story on tau and nid ftl travel? I'm curious.

Tyranids use a weird gravity acceleration thing I think. Tau basically use slow but safe Warp Jumps.

Far as I recall Tyranids can move fast between worlds, but their gravity system only lets them get so close and then they have to slow down to make a final approach. So unlike Imperials they can't warp in and out where and how they like. This gives them that deadly inevitable approaching death feeling as the Hive Fleet drops into sublight speeds and starts to approach the doomed world.

It's also theorized that they might have other methods to move between Galaxies, but how the Hive operates out there in the deep black nothing is totally unknown. Much about them is unknown

pm713 wrote:
Tyranids use a weird gravity acceleration thing I think. Tau basically use slow but safe Warp Jumps.

IIRC Tyranids use gravitic traction (they latch onto a far off planet with an artificial gravity 'beam' and this causes lots of earthquakes on the target world. I think it's assumed they do some warping of realspace to shorten the journey, but it's much slower than warp travel.


The Tau skim the edges of warp space, because without a navigator they can't go any deeper (faster), but it avoids the need for Geller Fields. Now the Tau have the Startide Nexus, which is basically a wormhole to another region of space. They used untested warp drives to move an entire fleet at once and basically found out what happens when you DON'T use Gellar Fields, and lost 3/4 of the fleet before SOMETHING dragged them back to realspace, forming a navigable wormhole in the process.

The Tau have Warp travel now, although they don't really talk about it.

Thanks for the answers guys.

Before 5th edition, the Tyranids, the warp based hive mind of warp psykers with a presence in the warp, used the warp for FTL because that made sense. 5th edition gave us the Narvhal, and the Tyranids became the super-science FTL race while the Necrons became the Dolmen Gate warp-webway-FtL race. I don't know why the Emperor spent so much time working on the webway when warpless gravitic FTL is apparently achievable with bio-engineering. Shame the Necrontyr never discovered how easy Gravity is to manipulate.


So, yeah, now official canon is that Tyranids are the one race that doesn't use the warp for FTL even though the Tyranids are arguably the most entwined with the warp (after daemons) in the entire setting. Official canon is beyond stupid now.

Yeah, again, it was better before. I fear the day I won't recognize 40k and the good old fluff will be forgotten.

The old Tyranids using the warp was better for several reasons.

1. It showed the power of the Hive Mind in shielding the Tyranids from random daemons in the warp.

2. The Tyranids already use the warp anyway with things like Zoanthropes. Yes, I know they handwave it now as using the power of the Hive Mind, but what is that but basically the warp gestalt of the Tyranids? It is still basically warp energy, just filtered first through the Hive Mind before being channeled by individual Tyranid creatures.

3. It gave a possible reason for where all that biomass goes. The energy expenditure to warp jump is never said anywhere so maybe the Tyranids had to metabolise a lot of their consumed biomass to make all their ships jump.

4. The introduction of the "new" gravity system created a lot of problems by introducing a new factor into how the 40K universe works. If safe FTL is possible without the warp, then suddenly a lot of races look stupid for using the warp with all its attendant dangers. Part of the issue with the warp is that it is both a danger and a necessity for the Imperium to hold together so the Imperium cannot do without it. Suddenly that necessity no longer looks so necessary if another form of safe FTL is possible. The gravity thing also seemingly flies utterly in the face of what we know about the strength of gravity between 2 masses, namely that it diminishes in strength rapidly as the distance increases. Rather than having to introduce some suddenly new way in which realspace gravity works or can be manipulated, it would have been better from an Occam's Razor point of view to keep things to the warp, which has its own mystical laws rather than the physics of the realspace universe.

Iracundus wrote:
The old Tyranids using the warp was better for several reasons.

1. It showed the power of the Hive Mind in shielding the Tyranids from random daemons in the warp.

2. The Tyranids already use the warp anyway with things like Zoanthropes. Yes, I know they handwave it now as using the power of the Hive Mind, but what is that but basically the warp gestalt of the Tyranids? It is still basically warp energy, just filtered first through the Hive Mind before being channeled by individual Tyranid creatures.

3. It gave a possible reason for where all that biomass goes. The energy expenditure to warp jump is never said anywhere so maybe the Tyranids had to metabolise a lot of their consumed biomass to make all their ships jump.

4. The introduction of the "new" gravity system created a lot of problems by introducing a new factor into how the 40K universe works. If safe FTL is possible without the warp, then suddenly a lot of races look stupid for using the warp with all its attendant dangers. Part of the issue with the warp is that it is both a danger and a necessity for the Imperium to hold together so the Imperium cannot do without it. Suddenly that necessity no longer looks so necessary if another form of safe FTL is possible. The gravity thing also seemingly flies utterly in the face of what we know about the strength of gravity between 2 masses, namely that it diminishes in strength rapidly as the distance increases. Rather than having to introduce some suddenly new way in which realspace gravity works or can be manipulated, it would have been better from an Occam's Razor point of view to keep things to the warp, which has its own mystical laws rather than the physics of the realspace universe.

Considering that Tyranids are immeasurably ancient by any other race standards and might come from a very remote galaxy, the Warp should work differently over there than in the milky way. It would be stupid for the Warp to be "alive" and usable in other galaxies since daemons draw their strength from there. If the Warp could extend in the entire univers, the idea that the Gods of Chaos have a problem with the Emperor and humanity becomes sort of absurd since there is hundreds of millions of galaxies in the univers with billions of xenos species there. That is unless Tyranids already devoured the entire univers except this galaxy which is hard to believe to say the least. The first version created a lot of problems. If access to the Warp or the Warp itlsef is a "local" phenomenon, it make sense all technology for FTL movement comes from it. It's faster and better then Tyranid stuff who should by all account be the race the most well adapted to space travel.

Also if Tyranid FTL basically tears a world apart when they are heading there that makes it great for Tyranids who don't really care because they are going to eat it all; but for the Imperium it would be useless. Imagine Terra, it would be torn to bits within no time at all if every ship approaching using FLT used the gravity method.

The warp extends beyond the Galaxy. In the old fluff, Chaos existed throughout the universe and other universes. For all we know, Chaos is fighting millions of Imperiums right now. The Oldcron codex and Nightbringer heavily implied that the Necrons and the Old Ones fought in many galaxies. And location in real space does not have a bijection with location in warp space. Neither does time.

All of which is besides the point. Why wouldn't the warp exist outside the Galaxy? Why would it matter if local warp conditions are not the same here as elsewhere (if indeed they aren't)? Sure, a boat made to sail in the Mediterranan may not make it across the Atlantic, but that doesn't mean boats built to sail across the Atlantic can't sail through the Mediterranean. The Tyranids are a warp based species. They'd know more about what's happening in the warp than almost any other faction.

The warp is throughout the universe. Its been spoken about in the lore as being throughout the galaxy but only because the milky way is the only relevant position in the 40k universe. It has also been said that it is a universal concept, but its also irrelevant, time and space have no meaning (well not the way we understand it) in the warp. Any place in the universe can access it, but the universe and the warp are too completely different things. Its like saying a parallel universe spams the galaxy or universe, it exists along side it (for simplicity) but is not the same thing.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
The warp is throughout the universe. Its been spoken about in the lore as being throughout the galaxy but only because the milky way is the only relevant position in the 40k universe. It has also been said that it is a universal concept, but its also irrelevant, time and space have no meaning (well not the way we understand it) in the warp. Any place in the universe can access it, but the universe and the warp are too completely different things. Its like saying a parallel universe spams the galaxy or universe, it exists along side it (for simplicity) but is not the same thing.

I think the Warp has been described as another dimension completely seperate from our univers. While it could theoretically be used to travel anywhere in space time, that doesn't mean the Warp is accessible from other points in the galaxy then the Milky Way. It would make sense that only species in the Milky Way can access the Warp and feed it with their emotions to crate daemons and gods. It wouldn't make sense for Gods of Chaos to even remotely care about a single specie in a single galaxy in a univers where there are hundreds of million of species. This concept makes the entire narrative of the setting completely pointless and ridiculous, a bit like the size of the observable univers makes biblical myths of creation ridiculous. For this reason, I think it makes more sense for the Tyranids to have FTL travel that doesn't require the Warp.

Iracundus wrote:

3. It gave a possible reason for where all that biomass goes. .

Into making more Tyranids. Full stop. Look, the 'Nids don't make a lot of logical sense in many regards, but at least they have a logical use for stuff they consume (even though they could get it easier elsewhere). They use it to make more 'Nids. They don't need to gather biomass to power themselves, biomass is a crappy energy source for interstellar travel.

 John Prins wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

3. It gave a possible reason for where all that biomass goes. .

Into making more Tyranids. Full stop. Look, the 'Nids don't make a lot of logical sense in many regards, but at least they have a logical use for stuff they consume (even though they could get it easier elsewhere). They use it to make more 'Nids. They don't need to gather biomass to power themselves, biomass is a crappy energy source for interstellar travel.

Its also been mentioned several times that Tyranids don't just consume biomass. They consume water, atmospheres and minerals in large quantity too. I wouldn't be surprised if they used some form of photosynthesis or fed of radiations emitted by celestial phenomenon too. The only thing we know they can't feed off is Warp stuff.

epronovost wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
The warp is throughout the universe. Its been spoken about in the lore as being throughout the galaxy but only because the milky way is the only relevant position in the 40k universe. It has also been said that it is a universal concept, but its also irrelevant, time and space have no meaning (well not the way we understand it) in the warp. Any place in the universe can access it, but the universe and the warp are too completely different things. Its like saying a parallel universe spams the galaxy or universe, it exists along side it (for simplicity) but is not the same thing.

I think the Warp has been described as another dimension completely seperate from our univers. While it could theoretically be used to travel anywhere in space time, that doesn't mean the Warp is accessible from other points in the galaxy then the Milky Way. It would make sense that only species in the Milky Way can access the Warp and feed it with their emotions to crate daemons and gods. It wouldn't make sense for Gods of Chaos to even remotely care about a single specie in a single galaxy in a univers where there are hundreds of million of species. This concept makes the entire narrative of the setting completely pointless and ridiculous, a bit like the size of the observable univers makes biblical myths of creation ridiculous. For this reason, I think it makes more sense for the Tyranids to have FTL travel that doesn't require the Warp.

The warp can be access 'anywhere' at anytime unless there are warpstorms. The gods care about any species that have souls, they compete with one another so every soul matters and also they are gods, they interfere and machinate on macro universal level as well as spanning many universes, so the human race may be small and inconsequential to us, but not to them. If they didn't care about our species then why wouldn't they care about others, its very unlikely or would be rare for other civilisations to be vaster than a single galaxy, not at the speed that warp travel allows, it takes about a year to get to one end of the galaxy to the other so it'd take about 20,000 years to get to the closet galaxy at warp speed.

 John Prins wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

3. It gave a possible reason for where all that biomass goes. .

Into making more Tyranids. Full stop. Look, the 'Nids don't make a lot of logical sense in many regards, but at least they have a logical use for stuff they consume (even though they could get it easier elsewhere). They use it to make more 'Nids. They don't need to gather biomass to power themselves, biomass is a crappy energy source for interstellar travel.

There was an old story--by Barrington J Bailey no less!--where a psyker reads the Hive Mind's uh mind, and wiping out competition is at least as much a factor for Tyranids going after biomass as om nom nom. The Tyranids are like a Discovery Channel Wildlife Special dialed up to one trillion.

epronovost wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

3. It gave a possible reason for where all that biomass goes. .

Into making more Tyranids. Full stop. Look, the 'Nids don't make a lot of logical sense in many regards, but at least they have a logical use for stuff they consume (even though they could get it easier elsewhere). They use it to make more 'Nids. They don't need to gather biomass to power themselves, biomass is a crappy energy source for interstellar travel.

Its also been mentioned several times that Tyranids don't just consume biomass. They consume water, atmospheres and minerals in large quantity too. I wouldn't be surprised if they used some form of photosynthesis or fed of radiations emitted by celestial phenomenon too. The only thing we know they can't feed off is Warp stuff.

Sure the Tyranids make more of themselves but the amounts they consume does not match up with their numbers. Namely if they really did turn all they consumed into Tyranids, they should have buried the other races and the galaxy in sheer numbers already.

Yes, the Tyranids use photosynthesis. We know that since they co-opt flora on worlds. One of the BFG upgrades for Tyranids basically was a speed upgrade and was given as something like solar vanes, suggesting they were gathering energy from solar radiation (since the amount of actual acceleration gained from light pressure would be virtually insignificant for a multi-kilometer long Tyranid ship). We know they also use chemical and geothermal energy sources.

Basically they seem to have vast inputs of energy and mass, whereas their outputs of actual numbers of Tyranid creatures does not seem anywhere close to what they take in. Hence that is why the Tyranids using the Warp with its unspecific energy expenditures would be one way to address this mismatch.

What mismatch ? Tyranid fleets are said to cloud the stars. They are said to be so numerous they exhaust stock of ammo design to sustain years of fighting in months. It is crystal clear in the fluff they are THE numerous species

Tyranids consume everything and leave behind only inert rock, and even then they eat some of that too. They suck out the biomass, the thermal energy, the water, the good minerals. They even suck the suns dry as well.

They consume all.

This is held in their vast hive ships and turned into warriors when needed and then reverted back once no longer required. One could theorize that the tyranids might be very fast evolveres ,but that they could be very inefficient energy users. It might even be that much of their harvested resources get used up just by living, that the ships consume such vast quantities of energy to survive that they have to consume worlds just to keep going.

That said one thing about Tyranids is that we really don't know a lot about them. We don't know if they are sending vast ships back out into the black holding huge reserves to be food for arriving, possibly starving fleets (behind a hive fleet one doesn't tend to see much bit empty worlds, no reason to send ships behind the hive as there's nothing left).

We don't even know what the Tyranids real motivation and objectives are, we guess that its to feed, but we know little else. We know what they do but not the reasoning nor their greater plans.

Tyranids suck suns dry? Where was that said please? I'm curious.

 Overread wrote:
They even suck the suns dry as well.

Good old GW hyperbole.

If this TYRANID ftl has a clear effect on worlds before they get to them one possibility in fighting 'nids is to preform extreme exterminatus on planets kid fleet's are approaching. Life eater virus, cyclonic plasma torpedoes, etc. Leave as little bio ass, water, etc as possible. Burn worlds before 'nids can eat them and try to starve their fleets into spending tremendous energy in traveling and getting nothing in return.

We don't really know that they need to eat to survive. They might use a warp tap for energy like the Eldar did, and simply use the biomass to create warriors and as catalogue of biological adaptations they can peruse. It's often pointed out in these threads that Tyranids could easily digest all the mass in a solar system with the techniques they have at their disposal, but they don't. Whether this is because they choose not to or because GW doesn't understand science/science fiction, we may never know...

All we really know is the Tyranids are specifically targeting inhabited worlds to process and leaving behind uninhabitable worlds.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Tyranids suck suns dry? Where was that said please? I'm curious.

I think its in one of the older codex somewhere. And it makes sense, why consume all the gas and biomaterial and minerals from planets and leave a great big source of energy just blazing away. Go eat that too! Waste nothing that's the Tyranid way!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
We don't really know that they need to eat to survive. They might use a warp tap for energy like the Eldar did, and simply use the biomass to create warriors and as catalogue of biological adaptations they can peruse. It's often pointed out in these threads that Tyranids could easily digest all the mass in a solar system with the techniques they have at their disposal, but they don't. Whether this is because they choose not to or because GW doesn't understand science/science fiction, we may never know...

All we really know is the Tyranids are specifically targeting inhabited worlds to process and leaving behind uninhabitable worlds.

We do know they need to eat to survive.

 Overread wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Tyranids suck suns dry? Where was that said please? I'm curious.

I think its in one of the older codex somewhere. And it makes sense, why consume all the gas and biomaterial and minerals from planets and leave a great big source of energy just blazing away.

Because it's a billion times bigger and a million times hotter and mostly made of hydrogen and photons.

 John Prins wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Tyranids suck suns dry? Where was that said please? I'm curious.

I think its in one of the older codex somewhere. And it makes sense, why consume all the gas and biomaterial and minerals from planets and leave a great big source of energy just blazing away.

Because it's a billion times bigger and a million times hotter and mostly made of hydrogen and photons.

And? It's a huge source of energy. Dyson Spheres are a known sci-fi creation and its no shock to think that Tyranids would have a method to harvest and tap into the raw energy of a sun. To syphon its energies off and use them to further the needs of the Hive. Though I can't recall how they do it.

The idea of the Tyranids is that once they are finished a galaxy is nothing but inert rock and debries - all life, all biomass, minerals, energy etc.. is gone - devoured by the Great Devourer.



Or at least that is the idea we have since that appears to be their prime and only goal that they aim for thus far. If Tyranids have any other motivations we've yet to find out. Although there is one hive fleet now building upon a single world. What the purpose of that vast megastructure is is still unknown

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
We don't really know that they need to eat to survive. They might use a warp tap for energy like the Eldar did, and simply use the biomass to create warriors and as catalogue of biological adaptations they can peruse. It's often pointed out in these threads that Tyranids could easily digest all the mass in a solar system with the techniques they have at their disposal, but they don't. Whether this is because they choose not to or because GW doesn't understand science/science fiction, we may never know...

All we really know is the Tyranids are specifically targeting inhabited worlds to process and leaving behind uninhabitable worlds.

We do know they need to eat to survive.

Do we?

The hive ships suck up all that mass, sure, but would they starve to death without it? The warriors and gaunts and all the little live things are made without unnecessary organs. I don't think they even have a digestive tract. Aren't they pretty much loaded up with the Tyranid equivalent of nectar-rich fat cells and thrown out to die fighting?

Have we seen a Tyranid starve to death in any fluff from before 5th edition?