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Greetings. I have decided to start an Craftworld army. But what Craftworld is most competitive? And also depending on what you think, what should I start with (buy).

Thank you!

 Irubius wrote:

Greetings. I have decided to start an Craftworld army. But what Craftworld is most competitive? And also depending on what you think, what should I start with (buy).

Thank you!

Alaitoc is hands down the most competitive, with Ulthwe coming in at number 2. What is your goal for a CWE army?

As said above, Alatioc for the -1 to hit is far better than the other traits from a rules perspective.

Depending on the specific build and/or theme you're going for though the others may be useful.

What units do you have in mind?

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

Greetings. I have decided to start an Craftworld army. But what Craftworld is most competitive? And also depending on what you think, what should I start with (buy).

Thank you!

Alaitoc is hands down the most competitive, with Ulthwe coming in at number 2. What is your goal for a CWE army?

Well, from a model and fluff perspective I really like Iyanden and the Ynnari (not really Craftworlds I know). But I have a thing for the spirit stuff. I don't really know anything about Alaitoc and the units they use. But I'm familiar with Ulthwe and really like the idea of their extra save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
As said above, Alatioc for the -1 to hit is far better than the other traits from a rules perspective.

Depending on the specific build and/or theme you're going for though the others may be useful.

What units do you have in mind?

As mentioned above I really like the spirit/death side of the Aeldari so when it cones to fluff and models I really enjoy Iyanden and the Ynnari. Know nothing about Alaitoc but have a grasp of what Ultwhe is about and really like the extra save.

Well, I'd make a poll.

Any faction if trait is -1 you know that's the most competive.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'd make a poll.

Poll added

 Irubius wrote:

As mentioned above I really like the spirit/death side of the Aeldari so when it cones to fluff and models I really enjoy Iyanden and the Ynnari. Know nothing about Alaitoc but have a grasp of what Ultwhe is about and really like the extra save.

Funny thing is that Iyanden trait isn't that good for the wraithstuffs barring wraithknight that barely starts to be playable(not competive mind you) now. So if you like wraiths don't feel compelled to play Iyanden that's better for masses of guardians.

tneva82 wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

As mentioned above I really like the spirit/death side of the Aeldari so when it cones to fluff and models I really enjoy Iyanden and the Ynnari. Know nothing about Alaitoc but have a grasp of what Ultwhe is about and really like the extra save.

Funny thing is that Iyanden trait isn't that good for the wraithstuffs barring wraithknight that barely starts to be playable(not competive mind you) now. So if you like wraiths don't feel compelled to play Iyanden that's better for masses of guardians.

Not just the Wraithknight but also the Wraithlord.

Technically. In the sense technically it helps wraithguard as well. In practice if wraithlord is about to be degraded it will be vaporized anyway. -1 to hit helps lot more.

Well, I know that Alaitoc is famous for their rangers. But which units synergize well with the Alaitoc playstyle? If I understand correctly the -1 is only from 12 inches (or more)?

Paint them any way you want and take Alaitoc. It's just way above the rest and after that you're looking at Ulthwé.

Small point games makes Biel-Tan viable simply because just running stock shuriken weapons is good for the weight of shots and the chance to be high AP.

Wave Serpents are generally a good start, even with the points increase to them.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Paint them any way you want and take Alaitoc. It's just way above the rest and after that you're looking at Ulthwé.

Small point games makes Biel-Tan viable simply because just running stock shuriken weapons is good for the weight of shots and the chance to be high AP.

Wave Serpents are generally a good start, even with the points increase to them.

Yeah I'm probably going for my own color scheme. As you said I might want to try other Craftworlds down the line.

Yeah atm the combination of alaiatoc being straight busted and many of the others (biel-tan, saim-hann, iyanden) being very weak compared to other army books' subfactions, even many of the much-maligned space marines, makes Alaitoc a total auto take.

If you took away Ulthwe and Alaitoc from me, but gave me the choice of Salamanders or Ultramarines only on my infantry and wraithlords, I would absolutely be taking the latter.

I do wonder if the rumored changes to faction wide -1 to hit may actually have some substance and come in the spring FAQ.

If so then you'd have an interesting choice. As it is now, Alaitoc is just far, far, far better than the others.

 Irubius wrote:

Well, I know that Alaitoc is famous for their rangers. But which units synergize well with the Alaitoc playstyle? If I understand correctly the -1 is only from 12 inches (or more)?

Alaitoc's a flat out great defensive trait, it doesn't so much as fit a playstyle as just works well regardless. For a Wraith army you might also consider Ulthwe (the 6+++ works well on tough, multi wound models) and Iyanden (rubbish trait that does nothing for Wraiths but you do get access to the Psytronome relic which can be a good buff for Wraithblades and Yriel is looking like a very good Autarch option now he's dropped 30pts).

You might also want to take a look at Forge World, quite a few things there have come down by a lot. The Wratihseer can be an interesting choice with a D-Cannon and the warlord trait that lets you target characters, shame it's psychic powers are complet trash though.

Don't discount Biel tan shuriken spam. With the reduction of windriders to 18 pts and guardian bombs dropping out of the webway you can output a crazy number of shots and you re-roll ones on all of them.
Plus a farseer with the natural leader trait giving a free guide and the spirit stone can re-roll both psychic tests if needed.
The problem with alaitoc is that it gets tempting to invest in elite gunline which can work but can struggle against things like tau and and mech that can overcome the-1 with weight of shots. It's still a great trait but not infallible.

Its worth noting that some people feel the -1 at range might get changed at some point. Or nerfed.

The 6+++ might be worth some more consideration at that point.

Probably the Alaitoc is the most competitive, but Iyanden is pretty cool and if you are not super competitive it will make you happy.

kingheff wrote:
Don't discount Biel tan shuriken spam. With the reduction of windriders to 18 pts and guardian bombs dropping out of the webway you can output a crazy number of shots and you re-roll ones on all of them.
Plus a farseer with the natural leader trait giving a free guide and the spirit stone can re-roll both psychic tests if needed.
The problem with alaitoc is that it gets tempting to invest in elite gunline which can work but can struggle against things like tau and and mech that can overcome the-1 with weight of shots. It's still a great trait but not infallible.

I actually had my eyes on a Biel-tan force for a summer slow grow campaign but went with Necrons instead. And back then I was choosing between Ulthwé and Biel-tan. It was Shuriken damage output that I thought looked great on paper. But I also like things tanky so with that in mind + the CP return Ulthwé looked tasty too.

I think the rule of 3 has set things back a bit - but even before the price cut I was thinking massed windriders with the basic shruriken catapults looked quite interesting. In a soup world though you could take a Beil'Tan Outrider and have the rest of your army in Alaitoc.

The problem is most of the money units don't benefit from it - or from Iyanden or really from Saim Hann either (rerolling charges is nice on shining spears - but typically not essential.)

I put Iyanden, mainly because it seems like that is the portions. Of the Eldar you are most interested in, and it's competitive if you build towards it. IMO any of the Craftworlds can do very well if you build to their strengths, especially now that Windrunners have come down to a reasonable price.

Top 3 purchases?

 Irubius wrote:

Top 3 purchases?

Hemlock, Farseer (personally prefer on Jetbike), and either Guardians or Rangers to et started. After that, get another Hemlock.
Others might recommend Reapers and/or Spears as they are the competitive go-to units, but I find that:
A) Reapers are fine cast, so no thanks and
B) Both units really want to be maxed out in a Ynnari list, which I personally don't like

-

 Irubius wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Don't discount Biel tan shuriken spam. With the reduction of windriders to 18 pts and guardian bombs dropping out of the webway you can output a crazy number of shots and you re-roll ones on all of them.
Plus a farseer with the natural leader trait giving a free guide and the spirit stone can re-roll both psychic tests if needed.
The problem with alaitoc is that it gets tempting to invest in elite gunline which can work but can struggle against things like tau and and mech that can overcome the-1 with weight of shots. It's still a great trait but not infallible.

I actually had my eyes on a Biel-tan force for a summer slow grow campaign but went with Necrons instead. And back then I was choosing between Ulthwé and Biel-tan. It was Shuriken damage output that I thought looked great on paper. But I also like things tanky so with that in mind + the CP return Ulthwé looked tasty too.

Biel Tan doesn't really help with the damage output that much to make it worth it. If you want a Guardian bomb, I'm really a supporter of Iyanden so that you don't have to waste CP for a squad having members running away. That's infinitely more valuable than rerolling a 1 to hit or a 6+++ from Ulthwe.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Don't discount Biel tan shuriken spam. With the reduction of windriders to 18 pts and guardian bombs dropping out of the webway you can output a crazy number of shots and you re-roll ones on all of them.
Plus a farseer with the natural leader trait giving a free guide and the spirit stone can re-roll both psychic tests if needed.
The problem with alaitoc is that it gets tempting to invest in elite gunline which can work but can struggle against things like tau and and mech that can overcome the-1 with weight of shots. It's still a great trait but not infallible.

I actually had my eyes on a Biel-tan force for a summer slow grow campaign but went with Necrons instead. And back then I was choosing between Ulthwé and Biel-tan. It was Shuriken damage output that I thought looked great on paper. But I also like things tanky so with that in mind + the CP return Ulthwé looked tasty too.

Biel Tan doesn't really help with the damage output that much to make it worth it. If you want a Guardian bomb, I'm really a supporter of Iyanden so that you don't have to waste CP for a squad having members running away. That's infinitely more valuable than rerolling a 1 to hit or a 6+++ from Ulthwe.

Agreed. And I always take an Autarch or 2 in my lists, so Biel-tan is pretty worthless for me

 Galef wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Don't discount Biel tan shuriken spam. With the reduction of windriders to 18 pts and guardian bombs dropping out of the webway you can output a crazy number of shots and you re-roll ones on all of them.
Plus a farseer with the natural leader trait giving a free guide and the spirit stone can re-roll both psychic tests if needed.
The problem with alaitoc is that it gets tempting to invest in elite gunline which can work but can struggle against things like tau and and mech that can overcome the-1 with weight of shots. It's still a great trait but not infallible.

I actually had my eyes on a Biel-tan force for a summer slow grow campaign but went with Necrons instead. And back then I was choosing between Ulthwé and Biel-tan. It was Shuriken damage output that I thought looked great on paper. But I also like things tanky so with that in mind + the CP return Ulthwé looked tasty too.

Biel Tan doesn't really help with the damage output that much to make it worth it. If you want a Guardian bomb, I'm really a supporter of Iyanden so that you don't have to waste CP for a squad having members running away. That's infinitely more valuable than rerolling a 1 to hit or a 6+++ from Ulthwe.

Agreed. And I always take an Autarch or 2 in my lists, so Biel-tan is pretty worthless for me

Plus when it's implied you already have Farseers running around, you'll have enough support to make the Guardians kill the thing they're pointing at. How much is rerolling a 1 to hit necessary the moment you Doom something? Not a lot outside fringe cases.

The Craftworld traits are a bit underwhelming, outside of Alaitoc (which, itself is so good it's boring). Later codices started to build on faction traits, adding more rules etc.

In a game which is arguably 60-70% shooting, a trait which hinders your opponent's shooting is superb. In a simpler term, it reduces the BS of your opponents army by one, across the entire game. Again, so good it's boring. This is what you'll see on 95%+ Eldar Craftworld armies in tournaments for that reason.

Ulthwe is decent as well, and is oddly better when matched with Iyanden classical units, making your already tough Wraithguard units even more tough, etc. Ulthwe's trait is nice because it's ever present...doesn't have any limitations and is simply there to reduce wounds taken over the course of the game.

Iyaden is mixed...and as stated isn't super relevant for actual Wraithguard units, but is more useful for vehicle heavy armies. If you want to run an Eldar tank army, or use Wraithknights (of questionable value), this is a decent one, and also helps protect large infantry squads from morale.

Biel-Tan is fluffy, but not super. Leadership boost for Aspects is nice, but often unnecessary given their already good leadership. Re-rolling '1's on Shuriken weapons is fine, but entirely dependent on how many shuriken weapons you're actually fielding. I used to run Biel-Tan and frequently found I'd build an army with very few actual shuriken weapons in it, meaning I was wasting most of my trait.

Saim Hann is so mediocre it's the only one I don't know off the top of my head - but it's aimed at bikes, vypers, and shining spears.

One thing to keep in mind, we're starting to see the announcement of specialist detachments which are fluffy detachment upgrades for various armies. There are a couple Eldar based ones coming up in the Vigilus book. These will have an impact on armies, as they add more character, stratagems, warlord traits, and relics to existing armies. I'm not sure any of these rules will be so strong as to force people to play them - but they're adding to what's already in the codex.

 Elbows wrote:
Saim Hann is so mediocre it's the only one I don't know off the top of my head - but it's aimed at bikes, vypers, and shining spears.

And even then, it doesn't really benefit those units as much as you'd think.
Saim-hann allows any unit to reroll charge rolls and BIKES ignore the -1 to hit when moving with Heavy weapons
Windriders and Vypers, 2 of the most iconic Saim-hann units, do NOT want to charge anything. And due to Battle Focus, WRs want to use shuriken weapons, which aren't Heavy and benefit more from Biel-Tan.
Shining Spears enjoy the reroll change, but with their movement and Quicken, they often don't need it.

They is, however, 1 unit that likes both the Saim-hann bonuses, but it is an Index-only option: Autarch Skyrunner with Laser lance and Reaper Launcher
So unless you're running 3 of those (which I've done, it's fun), I skip Saim-Hann.

But I'd also keep an eye on the FAQs. It's only a matter of time before Alaitoc, RG and AL get changed to a cover bonus (though depending on how they implement that change, Alaitoc might STILL be the de-facto trait for tourneys.)

-

Hmm. Alaitoc or Ulthwé does sound like good options. Guess I have some more research to do.