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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:18:36
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Freaky Flayed One
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What do you guys think of centurion devastators with the anti tank loadout after chapter approved 2018?
Centurion Devastator Squad [19 PL, 345pts]
. Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons
. Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons
. Centurion Sergeant: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons
Stats: M4 ws3 bs3 s5 t5 w3 a2 (sgt 3) ld7 (sgt 8) save 2+
------------------------lascannon heavy 1 r48 s9 ap -3 Dd6
centurion missile launcher assault d3 r36 s8 ap -2 Dd3
centurions ignore penalty for moving and firing heavy weps
they ignore cover as long as the sergeant is alive
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:40:48
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The damage output is probably okay but 38+ points per wound is not. Which would suggest they fundamentally need to change.
Consider that for a few points more you could take 3 basic dreads with double las & missile launcher.
You don't ignore moving and shooting (although you are M4, so "moving" is a bit optimistic). You don't ignore cover, which is nice enough (although with weapons like these I find the targets rarely benefit from cover outside of turn 1 but still.) 3 D6 damage missiles is also potentially a lot worse than 3d3 D3 damage missiles against the right targets.
But you would have 24 T7 3+ wounds versus just 9 T5 2+ wounds. You are 3 separate units so hits don't roll over.
Hope you go first, because your opponent is going to point any long range firepower at the Devs and should expect to get very efficient returns for doing so. Ravagers>Space Marines is in danger of being a meme - but letting your opponent expect to kill 230 points for 125 points isn't a good approach.
They probably need about 5 wounds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:46:02
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Freaky Flayed One
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yeah that hurts to think about for only 15 points more you get 3 dreadnaughts that do basically the same thing lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:48:53
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Its far too expensive, better to get Devastators and you get an extra shot from the cherub and bs of +2.
Centurions are way too expensive...
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:51:24
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Freaky Flayed One
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what points cost or change would you make to have them be decent but not completely broken?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/14 22:52:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:57:30
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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mjo2892 wrote:what points cost or change would you make to have them be decent but not completely broken?
decrease their cost by 1/3. Give them more wounds and I think they should be fine.
So they are around 75pts, make it so when they take two weapons it counts as a twinlinked weapon so the cost is decrease further by 10pts.
So a minimum squad would be around 225pts not 330pts.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 22:58:01
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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mjo2892 wrote:what points cost or change would you make to have them be decent but not completely broken?
5 wounds each, ~30ppm before weapons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 23:04:04
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Freaky Flayed One
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they problem is to keep to their current format, the points breakdown would be this:
6 lascannons: 150
3 cent missles: 75
total : 225
so you'd only be paying for the weapons
i think the base cost of 40 a model needs to be reduced or just improve the statline to make it worth it
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 23:06:23
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They are still hideous abominations. That’s what I think.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/14 23:22:41
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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This helpfully illustrates why the Centurion unit concept was flawed and superfluous from the get-go, as they basically are just slightly smaller, less flexible dreads that look way sillier.
That said, since GW insisted on making them, they should probably be ~75pts instead.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 00:16:27
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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If you had an apothecary huddled in with them it may be worth it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 00:22:42
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 00:32:21
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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Think they fare better with the other guns?
Grav/hurricane compare vs. hellblasters?
HB/hurricane dakka?
Keeps the points/wound down to something reasonable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 00:32:25
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Mmmpi wrote:But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.
Yes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 00:59:59
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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AND the Techmarine + 3 Dreads would confer an extra CP!
Or you can ignore the Techmarine and just go straight for the Captain because BS2+ rerolling to hit is pretty nice.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 03:58:59
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Fixture of Dakka
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mjo2892 wrote:yeah that hurts to think about for only 15 points more you get 3 dreadnaughts that do basically the same thing lol
And I'd be playing with models I like vs playing with centurion devs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 07:19:38
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.
You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.
So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/15 07:22:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 09:02:45
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Fixture of Dakka
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Eihnlazer wrote:I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.
You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.
So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?
5pts more than I'm paying for a terminator that has 5++ & DS.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 20:14:43
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ccs wrote: Eihnlazer wrote:I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.
You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.
So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?
5pts more than I'm paying for a terminator that has 5++ & DS.
So ... 28 ppm?
I hadn't considered the Centurions in that light before, I'd been thinking of them as more akin to Aggressors. Now I'm annoyed that they have the split between the Assault and Devastator options the way they do. I think I'd like 'em better if I could take them with one Huricane Bolter, one Heavy Bolter, and one Siege Drill.
Even at 28 ppm losing the 5++ and DS is painful though.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/01/15 20:32:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 20:49:29
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Fixture of Dakka
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The Newman wrote:ccs wrote: Eihnlazer wrote:I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.
You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.
So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?
5pts more than I'm paying for a terminator that has 5++ & DS.
So ... 28 ppm?
Even at 28 ppm losing the 5++ and DS is painful though.
I would have said "whatever a terminator already costs", but I figured +1w & +1t was worth something. Not much though because in general I've found that people either point heavy enough weapons/attack at them that w2/t5 doesn't matter, or they throw so many lower str shots that the results about the same (I know I've done this). And so I just arbitrarily decided each stat increase to be about 2.5pts because it's easy to just tack 5pts on.
As for the "pain"? Well, that's the choice. Do you want 2 heavy weapons + ignore cover? Or do you want 1 heavy weapon, an ++ save, & the (questionable) flexibility of DS? I view this as about an equal trade off, so no need to fiddle with points.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 20:51:06
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
AND the Techmarine + 3 Dreads would confer an extra CP!
Or you can ignore the Techmarine and just go straight for the Captain because BS2+ rerolling to hit is pretty nice.
But with that 1 CP you can give wisdom of the ancients for one turn!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 20:55:25
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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fraser1191 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
AND the Techmarine + 3 Dreads would confer an extra CP!
Or you can ignore the Techmarine and just go straight for the Captain because BS2+ rerolling to hit is pretty nice.
But with that 1 CP you can give wisdom of the ancients for one turn!
You'd also get the one CP with the Captain, it's a question of whether the re-roll is worth more than the repair rule and the 20-odd points. Automatically Appended Next Post: Eihnlazer wrote:
...
You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.
...
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/15 21:09:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/15 23:24:21
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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They are still complete garbage - pretty sad when this unit dropped by about 50%. They should be pointed and statted more like a broadside. lascannons are also overpointed. So are heavy bolters. So are hurricane bolters and gravcannons. LOL They are just bad.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 03:22:12
Subject: Re:Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Crimson Fists Centurions are pretty great horde clearers. The +1 to hit is going to make their absurd amount of shooting to the next level. Especially if paired with Bolter Drill. They won't be missing the Ignores Cover that Imperial Fists have since Centurions already get that.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 04:19:31
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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This is my attempt at making them relevant.
+++ Crimson Fists (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [146 PL, 1999pts] +++
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists
+ HQ +
Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Combi-plasma, Thunder hammer
Pedro Kantor: Warlord
+ Troops +
Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Boltgun
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun
+ Elites +
Company Veterans
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw
+ Heavy Support +
Centurion Devastator Squad
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion Sergeant: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
Land Raider Crusader: 2x Hurricane bolter, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists
+ HQ +
Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Combi-plasma, Thunder hammer
Primaris Librarian: 5) Psychic Fortress, 6) Null Zone, Force sword, The Armour Indomitus
+ Troops +
Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
+ Elites +
Company Veterans
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw
+ Heavy Support +
Centurion Devastator Squad
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion Sergeant: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
Land Raider Crusader: 2x Hurricane bolter, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
Created with BattleScribe ( https://battlescribe.net)
Scouts and Land raiders on the board. Everything else inside the raiders. Can either screen with scouts if up againgst first turn charges or spread them out to prevent deep strikes. Raiders just advance turn 1 up the middle, stopping in a V so that its almost impossible to surround them and pop smoke. Turn 2 everything gets out and you lay out a horrendous amount of dakka. Not useless in melee either.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/16 04:22:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 04:25:54
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 04:53:06
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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SHUPPET wrote:Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.
Why are they better? Their Chapter Tactics literally give absolutely nothing to them. Is it for Seismic Devastation?
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 05:49:14
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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casvalremdeikun wrote: SHUPPET wrote:Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.
Why are they better? Their Chapter Tactics literally give absolutely nothing to them. Is it for Seismic Devastation?
Yes, Seismic Devastation. Being able to flip a unit with 120+ anti infantry shots into one with enough AT to shred a Knight if the MU calls for it, is a lot better than not being able to
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 10:00:22
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just a random idea.
Centurions are infantry, and bunkers don't care how big you actually are, you can put 5 dev cents in there and shoot from the fire points. That's 12 T8 3+ wounds protecting your investment for 100 points.
At 675 points you get a bunker that fires 10 lascannons and an average of 10 missiles (ignoring cover). Maybe not top table material, but probably a good way to play centurions at a local tournament level.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/01/16 10:13:10
Subject: Centurion Devs after Chapter Approved
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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SHUPPET wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: SHUPPET wrote:Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.
Why are they better? Their Chapter Tactics literally give absolutely nothing to them. Is it for Seismic Devastation?
Yes, Seismic Devastation. Being able to flip a unit with 120+ anti infantry shots into one with enough AT to shred a Knight if the MU calls for it, is a lot better than not being able to
I definitely see the utility there. Paired with Bolter Drill and a +1 to hit somehow (Rhino Primaris maybe?), You could probably wipe the floor with a Knight. Definitely requires a bit of an alpha strike, but if pulled off properly, the effects would be pretty catastrophic to a big whatever your opponent is using.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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