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What do you guys think of centurion devastators with the anti tank loadout after chapter approved 2018?

Centurion Devastator Squad [19 PL, 345pts]
. Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons
. Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons
. Centurion Sergeant: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons

Stats: M4 ws3 bs3 s5 t5 w3 a2 (sgt 3) ld7 (sgt 8) save 2+

------------------------lascannon heavy 1 r48 s9 ap -3 Dd6
centurion missile launcher assault d3 r36 s8 ap -2 Dd3

centurions ignore penalty for moving and firing heavy weps
they ignore cover as long as the sergeant is alive

The damage output is probably okay but 38+ points per wound is not. Which would suggest they fundamentally need to change.

Consider that for a few points more you could take 3 basic dreads with double las & missile launcher.

You don't ignore moving and shooting (although you are M4, so "moving" is a bit optimistic). You don't ignore cover, which is nice enough (although with weapons like these I find the targets rarely benefit from cover outside of turn 1 but still.) 3 D6 damage missiles is also potentially a lot worse than 3d3 D3 damage missiles against the right targets.

But you would have 24 T7 3+ wounds versus just 9 T5 2+ wounds. You are 3 separate units so hits don't roll over.

Hope you go first, because your opponent is going to point any long range firepower at the Devs and should expect to get very efficient returns for doing so. Ravagers>Space Marines is in danger of being a meme - but letting your opponent expect to kill 230 points for 125 points isn't a good approach.

They probably need about 5 wounds.

yeah that hurts to think about for only 15 points more you get 3 dreadnaughts that do basically the same thing lol

Its far too expensive, better to get Devastators and you get an extra shot from the cherub and bs of +2.

Centurions are way too expensive...

what points cost or change would you make to have them be decent but not completely broken?

mjo2892 wrote:
what points cost or change would you make to have them be decent but not completely broken?

decrease their cost by 1/3. Give them more wounds and I think they should be fine.

So they are around 75pts, make it so when they take two weapons it counts as a twinlinked weapon so the cost is decrease further by 10pts.

So a minimum squad would be around 225pts not 330pts.

mjo2892 wrote:
what points cost or change would you make to have them be decent but not completely broken?

5 wounds each, ~30ppm before weapons.

they problem is to keep to their current format, the points breakdown would be this:

6 lascannons: 150
3 cent missles: 75
total : 225

so you'd only be paying for the weapons

i think the base cost of 40 a model needs to be reduced or just improve the statline to make it worth it

They are still hideous abominations. That’s what I think.

This helpfully illustrates why the Centurion unit concept was flawed and superfluous from the get-go, as they basically are just slightly smaller, less flexible dreads that look way sillier.

That said, since GW insisted on making them, they should probably be ~75pts instead.

If you had an apothecary huddled in with them it may be worth it?

But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.

Think they fare better with the other guns?

Grav/hurricane compare vs. hellblasters?
HB/hurricane dakka?

Keeps the points/wound down to something reasonable.

 Mmmpi wrote:
But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.

Yes.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.

Yes.

AND the Techmarine + 3 Dreads would confer an extra CP!

Or you can ignore the Techmarine and just go straight for the Captain because BS2+ rerolling to hit is pretty nice.

mjo2892 wrote:
yeah that hurts to think about for only 15 points more you get 3 dreadnaughts that do basically the same thing lol

And I'd be playing with models I like vs playing with centurion devs.

I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.


You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.

So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.


You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.

So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?

5pts more than I'm paying for a terminator that has 5++ & DS.

ccs wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.


You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.

So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?

5pts more than I'm paying for a terminator that has 5++ & DS.

So ... 28 ppm?

I hadn't considered the Centurions in that light before, I'd been thinking of them as more akin to Aggressors. Now I'm annoyed that they have the split between the Assault and Devastator options the way they do. I think I'd like 'em better if I could take them with one Huricane Bolter, one Heavy Bolter, and one Siege Drill.

Even at 28 ppm losing the 5++ and DS is painful though.

The Newman wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I actually loved the way Cent Devs looked when they came out.


You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.

So what would you pay for a terminator that gets +1 wound and toughness, the ability to carry an extra heavy weapon, and ignores cover, but loose's a 5++ and the ability to deep strike?

5pts more than I'm paying for a terminator that has 5++ & DS.

So ... 28 ppm?

Even at 28 ppm losing the 5++ and DS is painful though.

I would have said "whatever a terminator already costs", but I figured +1w & +1t was worth something. Not much though because in general I've found that people either point heavy enough weapons/attack at them that w2/t5 doesn't matter, or they throw so many lower str shots that the results about the same (I know I've done this). And so I just arbitrarily decided each stat increase to be about 2.5pts because it's easy to just tack 5pts on.

As for the "pain"? Well, that's the choice. Do you want 2 heavy weapons + ignore cover? Or do you want 1 heavy weapon, an ++ save, & the (questionable) flexibility of DS? I view this as about an equal trade off, so no need to fiddle with points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.

Yes.

AND the Techmarine + 3 Dreads would confer an extra CP!

Or you can ignore the Techmarine and just go straight for the Captain because BS2+ rerolling to hit is pretty nice.

But with that 1 CP you can give wisdom of the ancients for one turn!

 fraser1191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
But you can say something similar about a Techmarine with the dreadnaughts.

Yes.

AND the Techmarine + 3 Dreads would confer an extra CP!

Or you can ignore the Techmarine and just go straight for the Captain because BS2+ rerolling to hit is pretty nice.

But with that 1 CP you can give wisdom of the ancients for one turn!

You'd also get the one CP with the Captain, it's a question of whether the re-roll is worth more than the repair rule and the 20-odd points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:

...
You can tell they were just the test run for primaris though. And if you think about it hard, they are actually just primaris terminators without the primaris keyword.
...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

They are still complete garbage - pretty sad when this unit dropped by about 50%. They should be pointed and statted more like a broadside. lascannons are also overpointed. So are heavy bolters. So are hurricane bolters and gravcannons. LOL They are just bad.

Crimson Fists Centurions are pretty great horde clearers. The +1 to hit is going to make their absurd amount of shooting to the next level. Especially if paired with Bolter Drill. They won't be missing the Ignores Cover that Imperial Fists have since Centurions already get that.

This is my attempt at making them relevant.


+++ Crimson Fists (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [146 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists

+ HQ +

Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Combi-plasma, Thunder hammer

Pedro Kantor: Warlord

+ Troops +

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Boltgun
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

+ Elites +

Company Veterans
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw

+ Heavy Support +

Centurion Devastator Squad
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion Sergeant: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters

Land Raider Crusader: 2x Hurricane bolter, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists

+ HQ +

Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Combi-plasma, Thunder hammer

Primaris Librarian: 5) Psychic Fortress, 6) Null Zone, Force sword, The Armour Indomitus

+ Troops +

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Storm bolter
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Company Veterans
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw

+ Heavy Support +

Centurion Devastator Squad
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion Sergeant: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters

Land Raider Crusader: 2x Hurricane bolter, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)





Scouts and Land raiders on the board. Everything else inside the raiders. Can either screen with scouts if up againgst first turn charges or spread them out to prevent deep strikes. Raiders just advance turn 1 up the middle, stopping in a V so that its almost impossible to surround them and pop smoke. Turn 2 everything gets out and you lay out a horrendous amount of dakka. Not useless in melee either.

Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.

Why are they better? Their Chapter Tactics literally give absolutely nothing to them. Is it for Seismic Devastation?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.

Why are they better? Their Chapter Tactics literally give absolutely nothing to them. Is it for Seismic Devastation?

Yes, Seismic Devastation. Being able to flip a unit with 120+ anti infantry shots into one with enough AT to shred a Knight if the MU calls for it, is a lot better than not being able to

Just a random idea.
Centurions are infantry, and bunkers don't care how big you actually are, you can put 5 dev cents in there and shoot from the fire points. That's 12 T8 3+ wounds protecting your investment for 100 points.

At 675 points you get a bunker that fires 10 lascannons and an average of 10 missiles (ignoring cover). Maybe not top table material, but probably a good way to play centurions at a local tournament level.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Imperial Fist Cents are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. A unit with a million bolter shots, that also takes 18 wounds off a Knight when in rapid fire range, is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. It's not a meta breaker, but it's a decent unit.

Why are they better? Their Chapter Tactics literally give absolutely nothing to them. Is it for Seismic Devastation?

Yes, Seismic Devastation. Being able to flip a unit with 120+ anti infantry shots into one with enough AT to shred a Knight if the MU calls for it, is a lot better than not being able to

I definitely see the utility there. Paired with Bolter Drill and a +1 to hit somehow (Rhino Primaris maybe?), You could probably wipe the floor with a Knight. Definitely requires a bit of an alpha strike, but if pulled off properly, the effects would be pretty catastrophic to a big whatever your opponent is using.