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 Desubot wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:


Custodes only have one kit. we already know that there will be numerous kits of numarines, most of them being direct port from the old marine range (dreadnought, tanks, assault marines)

hmm was miss remembering that the extra kits was actually from FW

ether way im expecting them to just be a supplement. No on knows exactly whats going to happen but it would be foolish of GW just trash all there old marine kits. at least not until the last mold degrades beyond use.

GW has replaced numerous times perfectly functionnal marine kits with new ones.

like?

tactical marine squads was pretty much replaced every 5-6 years iirc

 gainsay wrote:
Anybody else really love the models but wtf with the fluff? I was ok with the primaris marine idea but when Phil confirmed that they can just "upgrade" existing marines to primaris I was really sad. Why not just make a new space marine kit and write something else for the story arc. It just seems really forced so it didnt seem like GW is going to phase out all your marines. Oh but wait they did anyways and really did a job on 20+ years of lore...

Really? i honestly feel the other way

if they were brand new marines out of the vat then it would horrifically cheapen old marines. by making it a progression it doesn't degrade how awesome (in lore) marines actually are.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
GW has replaced numerous times perfectly functionnal marine kits with new ones.

Each time they have is because of advances of technology and a degrading mold line.

Which is an infalsifiable argument, since technology is improving all the time.

I made TWO points about their timing. The molds we have aren't worn down to the point were replacing them would be a better solution than continuing to use/maintain them.

I wouldn't worry about Primaris models making a full replacement unless we reach the point where all the current options have a Primaris version.

 streetsamurai wrote:


tactical marine squads was pretty much replaced every 5-6 years iirc

5-6 years is a lot of time yo.

edit quote block

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
GW has replaced numerous times perfectly functionnal marine kits with new ones.

Each time they have is because of advances of technology and a degrading mold line.

Which is an infalsifiable argument, since technology is improving all the time.

I made TWO points about their timing. The molds we have aren't worn down to the point were replacing them would be a better solution than continuing to use/maintain them.

I wouldn't worry about Primaris models making a full replacement unless we reach the point where all the current options have a Primaris version.

I think it would be detrimentsl in the long run, since it will increase tje number of SKU, and introduce a lot of confusion in new customers.

Anyway, we'll see in a few years

 backlash13 wrote:
The talk of currant marines being "upgraded" to primaris gives me hope for their fall to chaos happening sooner, or at least more frequently.

what would have really been spicy is if Guilliman tries to force these new test tube ultra marines onto the older legions and they give him the finger and really splitting the imperium apart.

 Desubot wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:


tactical marine squads was pretty much replaced every 5-6 years iirc

5-6 years is a lot of time yo.

edit quote block

Not at all, at least, not when you compare them to prettu much all other kits, who take twice or thrice as long to get an update (if they ever get updated). And beside that, this argument is working against you, since most current marine kits are more than 5 or 6 yo, or near it

 gainsay wrote:
Anybody else really love the models but wtf with the fluff? I was ok with the primaris marine idea but when Phil confirmed that they can just "upgrade" existing marines to primaris I was really sad. Why not just make a new space marine kit and write something else for the story arc. It just seems really forced so it didnt seem like GW is going to phase out all your marines. Oh but wait they did anyways and really did a job on 20+ years of lore...

"Let me shove some squishy bits into you to make you better FOR THE EMPEROR!"

I'm sure it sounds better in the fluff that that though.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Death Company Primaris...

*drools*

Legion of the Damned Primaris

Oh man that one would require some creative fluff writing. I just picture the normal marines staging a scenario where they are desperate to goad the legion of the damned into intervening while every bush contains an apothecary holding a comically large syringe ready to pounce on them and give them their medicine.

Wibbly wobbly warp shenanigans.

 Latro_ wrote:

Youn wrote:
You will note his answer to drop pods seems to indicate any time you come in from a tactical reserve you have to be at least 9" away from an opponent. As he goes ahead and even states coming out of a drop pod will put you 9" away.

That would be consistent with all reserve deployments in AoS.

for those who missed he also said all drop pod armies in matched play will not all allowed to be in reserve! so i'm guessing ye gonna have to deploy some open as weird as that will seem... guessing all drop pod armies are a thing of the past

Expect Drop Pods to have a special rule allowing them to ignore the reserve limit. Because Slave Marines.

So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

 insaniak wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Youn wrote:
You will note his answer to drop pods seems to indicate any time you come in from a tactical reserve you have to be at least 9" away from an opponent. As he goes ahead and even states coming out of a drop pod will put you 9" away.

That would be consistent with all reserve deployments in AoS.

for those who missed he also said all drop pod armies in matched play will not all allowed to be in reserve! so i'm guessing ye gonna have to deploy some open as weird as that will seem... guessing all drop pod armies are a thing of the past

Expect Drop Pods to have a special rule allowing them to ignore the reserve limit. Because Slave Marines.

Not in Matched Play. The live FAQ said no exceptions.

 insaniak wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Youn wrote:
You will note his answer to drop pods seems to indicate any time you come in from a tactical reserve you have to be at least 9" away from an opponent. As he goes ahead and even states coming out of a drop pod will put you 9" away.

That would be consistent with all reserve deployments in AoS.

for those who missed he also said all drop pod armies in matched play will not all allowed to be in reserve! so i'm guessing ye gonna have to deploy some open as weird as that will seem... guessing all drop pod armies are a thing of the past

Expect Drop Pods to have a special rule allowing them to ignore the reserve limit. Because Slave Marines.

They apparently said in the Q&A that it applied to drop pods too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

Welcome to the thread! Boy that is some great input and criticism of a new edition we only have teasers of! I wish I had the heretical witch power of being able to see the future forsight that you do to see how stupid the new edition is going to be!

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

Sorry dude - Bolt Action has armour facing, it's pretty good I hear...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Youn wrote:
You will note his answer to drop pods seems to indicate any time you come in from a tactical reserve you have to be at least 9" away from an opponent. As he goes ahead and even states coming out of a drop pod will put you 9" away.

That would be consistent with all reserve deployments in AoS.

for those who missed he also said all drop pod armies in matched play will not all allowed to be in reserve! so i'm guessing ye gonna have to deploy some open as weird as that will seem... guessing all drop pod armies are a thing of the past

Expect Drop Pods to have a special rule allowing them to ignore the reserve limit. Because Slave Marines.

They apparently said in the Q&A that it applied to drop pods too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

Welcome to the thread! Boy that is some great input and criticism of a new edition we only have teasers of! I wish I had the heretical witch power of being able to see the future forsight that you do to see how stupid the new edition is going to be!

To be honest, at this point, we have more than enough info to have a really good idea on how 8th will play

 Ghaz wrote:
Not in Matched Play. The live FAQ said no exceptions.

I kind of hope people can scatter them over the board as their deployment (Infiltrator style), but I can understand if they get forced into a deployment zone as well. I mean Marines slamming down in a wall of ceramite and fury in front of an approaching heretical menace and engaging them while the rest of the drop pods aim for the dispersed forces makes sense for me.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:


tactical marine squads was pretty much replaced every 5-6 years iirc

5-6 years is a lot of time yo.

edit quote block

Not at all, at least, not when you compare them to prettu much all other kits, who take twice or thrice as long to get an update (if they ever get updated). And beside that, this argument is working against you, since most current marine kits are more than 5 or 6 yo, or near it

dunno what to tell you mate. the last set was released around 2013-4. so it is getting close to 3-4 years. all of the chapter upgrade spuers are more recent as well. i highly doubt they would throw those under the bus as well. i for one am looking forward to seeing how they upgrade all the vehicle armory as those are pretty damn old.

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

Bye Felicia.

Funny....ruining their franchise, yet it's doing better than it has in years and the hype is up for 8th. Glad you're not the one making calls.

Did they say Chapter Tactics are gone? Is it just going to be different stratagems?

 streetsamurai wrote:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

Welcome to the thread! Boy that is some great input and criticism of a new edition we only have teasers of! I wish I had the heretical witch power of being able to see the future forsight that you do to see how stupid the new edition is going to be!

To be honest, at this point, we have more than enough info to have a really good idea on how 8th will play

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

You do know that most of the stuff that has armor values now would've had a toughness value in 2nd edition instead right? The vehicles that did have facings were waaaay different too.. Making something different isn't automatically making it inferior.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Not in Matched Play. The live FAQ said no exceptions.

I kind of hope people can scatter them over the board as their deployment (Infiltrator style), but I can understand if they get forced into a deployment zone as well. I mean Marines slamming down in a wall of ceramite and fury in front of an approaching heretical menace and engaging them while the rest of the drop pods aim for the dispersed forces makes sense for me.

^^This.

We need to keep in mind that the battlefield the table represents, is usually just a smaller part of the larger war (generally speaking). Just because your deployment zone is a certain section of the table, doesn't necessarily mean that it's not the staging point for a full assault. Drop pods hurriedly dispatching a wall of troops into that area to hold the line while the remainder strike at strategic places in the enemy battle line sounds exactly like a marine strike force to me.

Biggest thing I heard in the Q&A was you can consolidate into the next combat. That's a big buff to melee heavy armies.

Yea I figured that much, I think you might not find the situation I created as funny as I. I'd actually prefer the funny one, since it's hilarious and actually more pallet-able to be honest. the coincidence that the warp touches LotD with the exact benefit exactly when all the other marines are is just as ridiculous and again, not as entertaining

Dumbing down is an idea that stems from the idea that complicated rules mean more meaningful tactical play. I'm not sure I agree, I think the opposite is often true, because the more complex the rules the more winning relies on who has a better understanding of the rules than who plays better.

Median Trace wrote:
Did they say Chapter Tactics are gone? Is it just going to be different stratagems?

They confirmed quite some time ago (on Facebook mainly) that Chapter Tactics are still in, as are Legion Tactics.

Today we learned that they may tie more into Stratagems as well.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
If anything this is even more of a reason to bring command squads.

To me, with a few exceptions (Ravenwing and Deathwing Cmd Squads ) command squads always felt a little underwhelming when you could just lump your librarian in with a tactical squad.

Now, if you want your character to survive it seems almost common sense to bring them!

I like this very much both from a crunch and fluff perspective!

My Blood Angels Honor Guard says Hi!



My 5th Company Captain and/or Librarian, both of whom are jump pack equipped (as Sanguinius intended!), rarely take to the field without this honor guard flanking them.

Looking forward to this squad seeing even more use.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red Corsair wrote:

Spoiler:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 gainsay wrote:
Anybody else really love the models but wtf with the fluff? I was ok with the primaris marine idea but when Phil confirmed that they can just "upgrade" existing marines to primaris I was really sad. Why not just make a new space marine kit and write something else for the story arc. It just seems really forced so it didnt seem like GW is going to phase out all your marines. Oh but wait they did anyways and really did a job on 20+ years of lore...

"Let me shove some squishy bits into you to make you better FOR THE EMPEROR!"

I'm sure it sounds better in the fluff that that though.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Death Company Primaris...

*drools*

Legion of the Damned Primaris

Oh man that one would require some creative fluff writing. I just picture the normal marines staging a scenario where they are desperate to goad the legion of the damned into intervening while every bush contains an apothecary holding a comically large syringe ready to pounce on them and give them their medicine.

Wibbly wobbly warp shenanigans.

Yea I figured that much, I think you might not find the situation I created as funny as I. I'd actually prefer the funny one, since it's hilarious and actually more pallet-able to be honest. the coincidence that the warp touches LotD with the exact benefit exactly when all the other marines are is just as ridiculous and again, not as entertaining

I don't know. I like saying "wibbly wobbly warp".

Hmmm... "Wibbly wobbly warp wackiness". There, now it's alliterative.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Median Trace wrote:
Did they say Chapter Tactics are gone? Is it just going to be different stratagems?

They confirmed quite some time ago (on Facebook mainly) that Chapter Tactics are still in, as are Legion Tactics.

Today we learned that they may tie more into Stratagems as well.

Hopefully we will have Craftworld tactics, Order Tactics, Forge Tactics, Kabal tactics, Klan Taktics etc

Breng77 wrote:
Dumbing down is an idea that stems from the idea that complicated rules mean more meaningful tactical play. I'm not sure I agree, I think the opposite is often true, because the more complex the rules the more winning relies on who has a better understanding of the rules than who plays better.

I agree, not to be the guy that brings chess up again but it IS an example of a very simple game with staggering depth in strategy.

 nintura wrote:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
So, it is officially confirmed that armor facings are gone and there won't be anything to replace them. Not that I'm surprised seeing what unholy brainless abomination of an edition 8th is.
At this point it only seems fitting for GW to dumb bown and ruin their franchise even further.

Bye Felicia.

Funny....ruining their franchise, yet it's doing better than it has in years and the hype is up for 8th. Glad you're not the one making calls.

Agreed !


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Dumbing down is an idea that stems from the idea that complicated rules mean more meaningful tactical play. I'm not sure I agree, I think the opposite is often true, because the more complex the rules the more winning relies on who has a better understanding of the rules than who plays better.

I agree, not to be the guy that brings chess up again but it IS an example of a very simple game with staggering depth in strategy.

the simplest answer is usually the correct one