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We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

More like a race car without sponsorship. Runs fine, driver doesn't care, but the crowd might have trouble seeing it.

Whatever man, good luck with that. I'll play with whoever, with whatever.

 Carnikang wrote:
More like a race car without sponsorship. Runs fine, driver doesn't care, but the crowd might have trouble seeing it.

Whatever man, good luck with that. I'll play with whoever, with whatever.

Well you are contributing to killing the important tradition of having "battle ready" minitures.

You are of course free to choose with whom you play. Don't tell me how to play or choose my opponents.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You are of course free to choose with whom you play. Don't tell me how to play or choose my opponents.

I'm not, im calling for people who judge or own the venue you play at should strongly discourage greys in order of keeping tradition and not encouraging newbies to just not bother painting.

And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

Play in tournaments, there is a painted standard there.

As far as telling people what to do in their pickup games? Meh. Play and let play.

Hooray for gatekeeping!

 Stormatious wrote:
We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

What about those of us who lack the ability to paint?
I'm blind, I can put a model together by feel, I can't paint it by feel.

 Marmatag wrote:
Play in tournaments, there is a painted standard there.

As far as telling people what to do in their pickup games? Meh. Play and let play.

But im saying it needs to be HIGHLY encouraged and the idea of painting you minis re enforced to stop the flow of newbies coming in with just greys because they have the feeling from people such as your self that its no problem.


How am i wrong how am i wrong ?

 Stormatious wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You are of course free to choose with whom you play. Don't tell me how to play or choose my opponents.

I'm not, im calling for people who judge or own the venue you play at should strongly discourage greys in order of keeping tradition and not encouraging newbies to just not bother painting.

And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

So you're telling other people to make my decisions for me, I'm even less fond of that. Thanks, but no.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You are of course free to choose with whom you play. Don't tell me how to play or choose my opponents.

I'm not, im calling for people who judge or own the venue you play at should strongly discourage greys in order of keeping tradition and not encouraging newbies to just not bother painting.

And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

So you're telling other people to make my decisions for me, I'm even less fond of that. Thanks, but no.

No im telling you that painting and war gaming go hand in hand, and the tradition needs to be encouraged ALOT more for obvious reasons.

 Stormatious wrote:
stop the flow of newbies

The actual outcome of doing this.

 Stormatious wrote:
And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

I personally paint my minis, but I know there are many reasons people choose not to and that is their business.

I do like the idea of only requiring painted minis at a GWS tournament, because GWS is the primary beneficiary of "the hobby".

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

And thats the reason im calling for this world wide mass discouragement on greys, its time re enforce tradition.

 Stormatious wrote:
No im telling you that painting and war gaming go hand in hand,

Not everyone holds that opinion.

 Stormatious wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

And thats the reason im calling for this world wide mass discouragement on greys, its time re enforce tradition.

You literally quoted me without in any way reading or understanding what I wrote.

If I run a gaming store, all I care about is people buying stuff, not "tradition". I can't pay my energy bills or employees or vendors with "tradition".

Stormatious wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You are of course free to choose with whom you play. Don't tell me how to play or choose my opponents.

I'm not, im calling for people who judge or own the venue you play at should strongly discourage greys in order of keeping tradition and not encouraging newbies to just not bother painting.

And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

So you're telling other people to make my decisions for me, I'm even less fond of that. Thanks, but no.

No im telling you that painting and war gaming go hand in hand, and the tradition needs to be encouraged ALOT more for obvious reasons.

Ok so now you're not only telling me how to chose games, but how to think.

Platuan4th wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
No im telling you that painting and war gaming go hand in hand,

Not everyone holds that opinion.

Exactly.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
stop the flow of newbies

The actual outcome of doing this.

Whats wrong with weeding out some thing to let the more quality stuff prosper?

 Stormatious wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

And thats the reason im calling for this world wide mass discouragement on greys, its time re enforce tradition.

And destroying Ouze's (theoretical?) business.

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
And yes they should say " please come back when you have painted to at-least table top standard".

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

And thats the reason im calling for this world wide mass discouragement on greys, its time re enforce tradition.

You literally quoted me without in any way reading or understanding what I wrote.

If I run a gaming store, all I care about is people buying stuff, not "tradition". I can't pay my energy bills or employees or vendors with "tradition".

I think personally that's a bad business model to go against what one of the major things that makes war gaming great and you would get more dedicated long term people coming in and spending more money.

In the long term, you're way of thinking kills the lovely tradition and waters down the hobby too much.

 Ouze wrote:

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

Then again, the potential newbies seeing that the reality is people pushing around their half assembled grey models in midst of cardboard boxes instead of the stunning visual display as seen on the White Dwarf is a good way to kill their enthusiasm before they've bought a single kit.

 Crimson wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

Then again, the potential newbies seeing that the reality is people pushing around their half assembled grey models in midst of cardboard boxes instead of the stunning visual display as seen on the White Dwarf is a good way to kill their enthusiasm before they've bought a single kit.

If that were true, 40K wouldn't still be around.

 Stormatious wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
stop the flow of newbies

The actual outcome of doing this.

Whats wrong with weeding out some thing to let the more quality stuff prosper?

It's not the idea, it's the mechanism. You're coming at it from the wrong place. This has to come from a place where someone isn't going to get hurt by turning people away. The way I see it, the only people that can feel free to do so are people who are independently wealthy and don't need repeat customers, people who are running tournaments or painting contests with sponsor support, and the editors of White Dwarf magazine or wargaming social media, where your photos of painted minis are the actual product.

You could try a positive direction, such as bonus trophies or awards that only painted armies are eligible for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormatious wrote:
I think personally that's a bad business model to go against what one of the major things that makes war gaming great and you would get more dedicated long term people coming in and spending more money.

In the long term, you're way of thinking kills the lovely tradition and waters down the hobby too much.

I think you would have to show me that what gets people to spend money in my store is the presence of customers with painted models playing in my store, and that my sales go down when the models are grey. I'm willing to bet that is not a possible ask.

 Stormatious wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
stop the flow of newbies

The actual outcome of doing this.

Whats wrong with weeding out some thing to let the more quality stuff prosper?

Because your way leads to stagnation and elitism. The whole reason GW games are the norm is because of the ease of access and "play your way" idea that GW pushes.

 Blndmage wrote:

What about those of us who lack the ability to paint?
I'm blind, I can put a model together by feel, I can't paint it by feel.

Whilst that pretty damn legitimate (and rare) reason not to paint, I have to wonder how you can actually play?

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
stop the flow of newbies

The actual outcome of doing this.

Whats wrong with weeding out some thing to let the more quality stuff prosper?

It's not the idea, it's the mechanism. You're coming at it from the wrong place. This has to come from a place where someone isn't going to get hurt by turning people away. The way I see it, the only people that can feel free to do so are people who are independently wealthy and don't need repeat customers, people who are running tournaments or painting contests with sponsor support, and the editors of White Dwarf magazine or wargaming social media, where your photos of painted minis are the actual product.

You could try a positive direction, such as bonus trophies or awards that only painted armies are eligible for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormatious wrote:
I think personally that's a bad business model to go against what one of the major things that makes war gaming great and you would get more dedicated long term people coming in and spending more money.

In the long term, you're way of thinking kills the lovely tradition and waters down the hobby too much.

I think you would have to show me that what gets people to spend money in my store is the presence of customers with painted models playing in my store, and that my sales go down when the models are grey. I'm willing to bet that is not a possible ask.

Yes well i dont think telling some one " hey mate, please come back when you have painted your models to table top standard" is very mean, and im pretty sure they would understand. Also if it was only independent people then that's a good thing IMO, it stops the watering down process of the hobby.

 Stormatious wrote:

Spoiler:

 Ouze wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
stop the flow of newbies

The actual outcome of doing this.

Whats wrong with weeding out some thing to let the more quality stuff prosper?

It's not the idea, it's the mechanism. You're coming at it from the wrong place. This has to come from a place where someone isn't going to get hurt by turning people away. The way I see it, the only people that can feel free to do so are people who are independently wealthy and don't need repeat customers, people who are running tournaments or painting contests with sponsor support, and the editors of White Dwarf magazine or wargaming social media, where your photos of painted minis are the actual product.

You could try a positive direction, such as bonus trophies or awards that only painted armies are eligible for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormatious wrote:
I think personally that's a bad business model to go against what one of the major things that makes war gaming great and you would get more dedicated long term people coming in and spending more money.

In the long term, you're way of thinking kills the lovely tradition and waters down the hobby too much.

I think you would have to show me that what gets people to spend money in my store is the presence of customers with painted models playing in my store, and that my sales go down when the models are grey. I'm willing to bet that is not a possible ask.

Yes well i dont think telling some one " hey mate, please come back when you have painted your models to table top standard" is very mean, and im pretty sure they would understand. Also if it was only independent people then that's a good thing IMO, it stops the watering down process of the hobby.

If a store owner ever told me that, I'd find a different store to frequent.

 Crimson wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

If I ran the shop, I could give a gak less if they rolled their minis in elmers glue and glitter, as long as they were buying them. My goal isn't to support some arbitrary idea of "the hobby", it's to keep convincing customers to spend money in my store so I can continue to stay alive.

Then again, the potential newbies seeing that the reality is people pushing around their half assembled grey models in midst of cardboard boxes instead of the stunning visual display as seen on the White Dwarf is a good way to kill their enthusiasm before they've bought a single kit.

Half assembled sure, but unpainted? Most people I have seen in stores are more concerned with getting people to actually play their various games rather than whether or not its painted. Then when it is painted its just better.

 Blndmage wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

What about those of us who lack the ability to paint?
I'm blind, I can put a model together by feel, I can't paint it by feel.

That is actually quite good, considering circumstances.
But honest question, how do you play?

 Stormatious wrote:
Yes well i dont think telling some one " hey mate, please come back when you have painted your models to table top standard" is very mean, and im pretty sure they would understand. Also if it was only independent people then that's a good thing IMO, it stops the watering down process of the hobby.

The other possibility is a customer who doesn't feel like painting, but might spend hundreds of dollars a month leaves and never comes back. Also, only independant shops should do this? The guys who get the least support from Games Workshop should bleed the most for "the hobby"?

What the actual feth