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Sure, the 'nids are manifestly here to harvest biomass...

BUT

There's speculation that the C'tan known as the Outsider attracted the hive fleets to the galaxy.

Granted, the Outsider seems to be indifferent to galactic affairs and completely insane ... but if it decided to wage war against, say, the Void Dragon -- which can control machines -- what better way to do it than with a purely biological fighting force?

There's also speculation that the Pharos Device attracted them. I don't think GW is ever going to say for sure.

I thought it was pretty concrete the Pharos device attracted them and since then they just home in on life signs.

Seems pretty farfetched a C'Tan would be behind the Tyranids since newcrons.

pm713 wrote:
I thought it was pretty concrete the Pharos device attracted them and since then they just home in on life signs.

Pharos EPILOGUE wrote:
Hunger
Far beyond the fringes of the galaxy there was naught but endless black. Past the last few stray stars plying their lonely track through the cold night, past the dead worlds and the fragments of galactic collisions billions of years gone, past the probes sent out by extinct races recorded in no history… past all that and beyond, there was a night sea studded with the diamond islands of distant, lonely galaxies. Though incomprehensibly vast, this sea was not empty. Great behemoths of the deep lurked there. Into the eternal blackness, a flash of quantum energy shone out at many times the speed of light; a brief flare, milliseconds in duration, projecting from an unremarkable spiral of stars. It was not missed. In the darkness, something of limitless hunger stirred in a slumber that had lasted for aeons. A million frozen and unblinking eyes saw the flash, tripping cascades of stimuli. Their purpose served, the eyes died. The entity processed the message the eyes provided without ever truly awakening. Automatically, instinctively, its gargantuan, dreaming mind analysed the signal, comparing it against all parameters for the one thing it sought. Prey. Slowly, glacially, the great devourer shifted its course.

In the eldar fluff it states the eldar fought and beat the necrons for supremacy of the galaxy. At the height of their empire they beat them back at the behest of 'the old ones' .

I imagine the mysterious 'old ones' are some sort of universe overlords.

 Argive wrote:
In the eldar fluff it states the eldar fought and beat the necrons for supremacy of the galaxy. At the height of their empire they beat them back at the behest of 'the old ones' .

I imagine the mysterious 'old ones' are some sort of universe overlords.

Gotta love that dreadful ret-conned fluff. Thanks Matt Ward

In the original, superior version of events, the Necrontyr started a war with the Old Ones, but over many eons began to lose. So they employed the C'tan who curbstomped the Old Ones. The Old Ones were desperate and created the Eldar, Orks and other minor races to help them. The war became even until the C'tan tricked the Necrontyr into giving up their mortal bodies, their souls and becoming Necrons. The Necrons lead by the C'tan went on to dominate the final phase of the war until a plague of Enslavers (proto-demons basically) from the warp decimated the galaxy and the C'tan had nothing to rule over and no choice but to go into stasis with their legions

I am starting to think so, given the tech that the old ones used and the similarities between the orks and the tyranids, I think the nids were created by the old ones.

Nope.

Their whole MO is incredibly poorly suited to fight Necrons.

No DNA to harvest. Necrons tend to exterminate life on planets they control (and have Tombs yet to awaken everywhere). Indeed, with Gauss Weapons disintegrating the foe, they’re a very, very poor thing for the Nids to want to eradicate. No corpses left behind on either side can see a Hive Fleet Splinter bled dry surprisingly quickly.

That’s why I feel the Hive Fleet in the original Necron Codex just skirted an entire System. They got their butts kicked, so cut their losses.

Indeed, don't Nids generally avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague?

Cynista wrote:

 Argive wrote:
In the eldar fluff it states the eldar fought and beat the necrons for supremacy of the galaxy. At the height of their empire they beat them back at the behest of 'the old ones' .

I imagine the mysterious 'old ones' are some sort of universe overlords.

Gotta love that dreadful ret-conned fluff. Thanks Matt Ward

In the original, superior version of events, the Necrontyr started a war with the Old Ones, but over many eons began to lose. So they employed the C'tan who curbstomped the Old Ones. The Old Ones were desperate and created the Eldar, Orks and other minor races to help them. The war became even until the C'tan tricked the Necrontyr into giving up their mortal bodies, their souls and becoming Necrons. The Necrons lead by the C'tan went on to dominate the final phase of the war until a plague of Enslavers (proto-demons basically) from the warp decimated the galaxy and the C'tan had nothing to rule over and no choice but to go into stasis with their legions

It's far more sensible to try and unify your race by having intergalactic war. War is famous for how it brings people together after all....

 Frazzled wrote:
Indeed, don't Nids generally avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague?

In the early fluff it stated they tryed to avoid them. Unsure why or how they coul detect necrons. But not always. I do belive there are examples of them attacking tomb worlds.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Silent_King

"Szarekh then left for the intergalactic void, vowing to never return to the Milky Way...

...which lasted right up until he found out what was in the void: the Tyranids. When he encountered the vanguard of Hive Fleet Behemoth, he NOPE'd right back home, getting in touch with the remaining Praetorians to awaken every Tomb World still standing and unite against the swarm -- after all, if the Tyranids ate everything, there would be no bodies to return to, and nothing to rule over! The Silent King so disliked this possibility that he allied with the Blood Angels to fight off a Tyranid landing force, and even let them go on their way when the fighting was over."

This also helps with the issues between old-crons and new, before the Silent King returned, many of the Necron worlds woke up feral and were just reverting to their old "kill the old ones and their allies" protocols. With Szarekh's return he was able to reel in most of them, and start waking up Tomb Worlds in a more organized manner letting them wake up a little less crazy.

 Argive wrote:
In the eldar fluff it states the eldar fought and beat the necrons for supremacy of the galaxy. At the height of their empire they beat them back at the behest of 'the old ones' .

I imagine the mysterious 'old ones' are some sort of universe overlords.

The eldar fluff is according to the eldars myths and legends. According to the necrons that were actually there the necrons won but devestated the galaxy in the process. The necrons then went to sleep ignoring the eldar and orks because they were not worth their attention. The eldar only prospered in their absence.

In fact, the warp is only the gak hole that it is because of the devestation wrought by the crons.

Considering what Necrontyr/Old Ones Pylons can do to the Warp, it is entirely possible that it could have some effect on the Tyranids hive mind, causing them to avoid Necrons.

The Hive Mind is not a warp entity. The shadow in the warp is a side effect of it, not it itself.

Doesn't need to be any special reason for the Tyranids to avoid the Necrons. They go for planets that have food, and a Tomb World that is devoid of anything that can be considered life isn't gonna have food on it. Major waste of resources trying to eat it when there are so many other, far more nutritious planets available.

Are all tomb worlds devoid of life? I was under the impression that any world can be a tomb world regardless of the living conditions. After all, wasn't the whole point of the "big sleep" to give the galaxy time to return to life and flourish so that it might be worthwhile conquering?

Not all Tomb Worlds are lifeless. Some are on inhabited worlds - in some cases heavily populated worlds - hidden beneath the ground for millennia. I don't think Nids avoid Necrons in general, but at the same time if they scour a planet of biomass but there are still Necrons on the surface they would withdraw, which would look very much like a retreat from a Necron point of view. Any Tomb Worlds that were on barren planets would be avoided by Nids as they'd be deemed worthless.

 dogquixote wrote:
Sure, the 'nids are manifestly here to harvest biomass...

BUT

There's speculation that the C'tan known as the Outsider attracted the hive fleets to the galaxy.

Granted, the Outsider seems to be indifferent to galactic affairs and completely insane ... but if it decided to wage war against, say, the Void Dragon -- which can control machines -- what better way to do it than with a purely biological fighting force?

That is a mix-up of fan theories.

The "official" fan theory states that the c'tan Iash'uddra - the Endless Swarm, created the tyranids... because it has swarm in its name. LOGIC!

 Lance845 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
In the eldar fluff it states the eldar fought and beat the necrons for supremacy of the galaxy. At the height of their empire they beat them back at the behest of 'the old ones' .

I imagine the mysterious 'old ones' are some sort of universe overlords.

According to the necrons that were actually there the necrons won but devestated the galaxy in the process. The necrons then went to sleep ignoring the eldar and orks because they were not worth their attention. The eldar only prospered in their absence.

Do you have a source on that? The direct opposite is stated in the 8th edition necron codex...

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Are all tomb worlds devoid of life? I was under the impression that any world can be a tomb world regardless of the living conditions.

They can be lifeless and they can have life. I believe that it is stated that the lifeless planets were kept sterile by necron tech. I can try and look it up.

After all, wasn't the whole point of the "big sleep" to give the galaxy time to return to life and flourish so that it might be worthwhile conquering?

That was true for 3rd edition, but died with 5th (and the c'tan).

Ceann wrote:
Considering what Necrontyr/Old Ones Pylons can do to the Warp, it is entirely possible that it could have some effect on the Tyranids hive mind, causing them to avoid Necrons.

That is supported by the fluff, yes (null fields).

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 Niiai wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Indeed, don't Nids generally avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague?

Unsure why or how they coul detect necrons.

Null fields, as stated above.

There really is no need for speculation, as someone quoted early in this thread GW gave us a direct answer for why the Nids are here. They were attracted to the energy output when the Pharos device was overloaded. Asked and answered.

That's probably how the nids figure out what direction to go towards, were there is physic energy there is life and therefor something to eat.

The Tyranids are intergalactic space locusts. They exist to consume and multiply and have evolved toward that end. There is no indication at this point that the old ones created the Tyranids.

The lore has depicted the Tyranids avoiding tomb worlds, but I don't think there is necessarily anything sinister going on here. I always understood it as the Tyranid hive mind realizing that fighting necrons is a net loss in biomass because their bodies and technology cannot be consumed by the hive.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
There really is no need for speculation, as someone quoted early in this thread GW gave us a direct answer for why the Nids are here. They were attracted to the energy output when the Pharos device was overloaded. Asked and answered.

That's probably how the nids figure out what direction to go towards, were there is physic energy there is life and therefor something to eat.

Sorry - the Pharos device?

The Pharos Device

The Tyranids are being drawn to the Milky Way by the psychic beacon that is the Astronomicon.

The Pharos may have alerted them to the galaxy's existence, but the Astronomicon is what is keeping their attention on the galaxy

Here. Not sure if ya all have seen this. Might answer to this topic.
YouTube clip

Speaking as a necron player that likes the necrons despite their connection to The Unspeakable One, I go with the fluff in the 8e codex.

The necrontyr met the old ones, asked for their aid in dealing with their radiation issues, the old ones croaked "get lost" at them, the necrontyr declared war on them to keep their empire from collapsing in despair,

Necrontyr lost the war, were beaten badly and almost wiped out but them the c'tan who had apparently fought the old ones long ago and lost came to them with a proposal.

The c'tan in their arrogance likely underestimated the necrontyr leaders and meant them all to be mindless slaves.

Ok, so fueled by the souls of the countless necrontyr the c'tan went to town on the old ones while the necron leaders realized what had been done to them quietly plotted their revenge.

C'tan beat the old ones with necron aid, necrons shattered the c'tan.

The silent king declared the sleep of aeons because A. he didn't want the exhausted necrons fighting the krorks and eldar and b. he needed time to come up with a [pan to save his race.

He left the galaxy after realizing thnere was no solution for his races problem there and headed for maybe andromeda when he met the incoming tyranids. Realizing what the nids were he returned to the galaxy to set up a defense against them because he wanted to return his people to the time of flesh and knew the nids would leave no flesh devoured when they came.

The nids may have been drifting in hibernation until the pharos was lit and attracted them.

The king returned in or before 30,000 and met sanguinius at least once. That's another story.

Pharos attracted the nids, that's settled.

No real necron/nid connection as is, but gw could make one by claiming a c'tan, the endless swarm, fled to andromeda and somehow created the nids.

The silent king wants to stop the nids so the necrons can return to the time of flesh. The hive mind has simple noted the necrons are an obstacle to their plans for the galaxy. They fight them automatically.

As to a theory the old nes created the nids due to some similarioty to the orks, I don;t really see that.. Maybe the nids started out as a self replicating military force in another galaxy in a way like the orks were created as one here long ago by the old ones, but beyond that there;s no connection. They were both an organic von neuman fighting force, no more connection than that. The nids went to a mindless eat/replicate machine while the orks had more individuality and a form of "kultur".

 Corennus wrote:
The Tyranids are being drawn to the Milky Way by the psychic beacon that is the Astronomicon.

The Pharos may have alerted them to the galaxy's existence, but the Astronomicon is what is keeping their attention on the galaxy

The astronomicon isn't powerful enough to shine across 100% of the galactic disk. It sure as hell isn't the thing thats bringing more tyranids to the galaxy. The hive mind MIGHT be interested in it when it stumbles on it. But it is not itself doing much of anything. Otherwise Terra would have already been overwhelmed by the combined endless ship of the various fleets.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
The Tyranids are being drawn to the Milky Way by the psychic beacon that is the Astronomicon.

The Pharos may have alerted them to the galaxy's existence, but the Astronomicon is what is keeping their attention on the galaxy

The astronomicon isn't powerful enough to shine across 100% of the galactic disk. It sure as hell isn't the thing thats bringing more tyranids to the galaxy. The hive mind MIGHT be interested in it when it stumbles on it. But it is not itself doing much of anything. Otherwise Terra would have already been overwhelmed by the combined endless ship of the various fleets.

This is a good point. Well thought out, consistent with the background and snark free. Good job.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
The Tyranids are being drawn to the Milky Way by the psychic beacon that is the Astronomicon.

The Pharos may have alerted them to the galaxy's existence, but the Astronomicon is what is keeping their attention on the galaxy

The astronomicon isn't powerful enough to shine across 100% of the galactic disk. It sure as hell isn't the thing thats bringing more tyranids to the galaxy. The hive mind MIGHT be interested in it when it stumbles on it. But it is not itself doing much of anything. Otherwise Terra would have already been overwhelmed by the combined endless ship of the various fleets.

That doesn't make much sense as an argument. The Hive Fleets share a single mind so as long as one Fleet can sense the Astronomicon then it can draw more, the Astronomicon has enough range to cover a galaxy so it's more a main goal than something you stumble on and Terra isn't just overwhelmed because Tyranids eat everything on the way there. They went a long time without food.

That silent king had been issue order to all Necron to go in the sleep mode then break his own crown which control all of Necron as one and then fly out in the empty space for 40 million years. Indeed he saw something out there that was worse than he thought but what? I don’t know what he saw out there that fear silent king.
Silent king did return and came to see Dante in Shield of Baal lore. Told Dante to be the shield of this galaxy, and silent king awake more Necron but don’t aid galaxy that much.... it don’t act like white cell attack intruder that puzzled me.

The Astronomicon is webway of psyker that connect every planet like huge spider web... in very far away, 10,000 years away it look like a snowflake to Tyranid? It cannot pinpointed their ‘scout’ hive ship to reach exactly location. But what about it maw? It was very spot on towards source of Astronomicon we yet to see...