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Made in nz
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

I mean, i ordered just ONE black round base for The Great Unclean One and that costs 12$ ( pretty sure it costs about 5 cents or so to make that base, im just guessing ). Also it seems that citadel is the smallest paints you can get, also some of the worse design for a container for the paint. Half of my paint ends up gettin spilled over the sides of the container just because thats how it acts when i close the cap... And then theres the most expensive spray paints i have ever seen... etc etc


What are your thoughts on this?, do you think its a bit ridiculous that things seem to cost more and come in less quantity compared to every other war game?

edit - Also bought some green stuff, which is about the size of a 2 space marines ( the blue and the green together )... thought there would be alot more, and that was 24$ edit - It was a bit bigger actualy, i didn't see the other part of it in the container it was in, so make it the size of 3 space marines.


Any way, im not complaining to be fair, im more interested in what others think about this compared to other wargames, or what ever knowledge/thoughts they have on this.


edit - But if this seems just like me complaining please delete this thread and i apologise.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/05/16 16:17:18


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Tampa, FL

Yes, but people will use any argument to show why it's not. Model to model pricing, comparing really expensive things to start collectings, comparing boxes and not the size of armies, etc. People always try to show how GW really isn't the most expensive wargaming company.

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Made in nz
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

Wayniac wrote:
Yes, but people will use any argument to show why it's not. Model to model pricing, comparing really expensive things to start collectings, comparing boxes and not the size of armies, etc. People always try to show how GW really isn't the most expensive wargaming company.



I don't really know at all. But its just like, i bought a 5 dollar spray can for priming, and it works just as well as the two times i spent more then 30$ on citadel spray which is also has less paint then the cheap one i got. And i thought they would have a stock or some thing of bases, didn't think it would cost so much, if i knew that i would just try repair the one i screwed up lol.

I think they would do better if they lowered there prices to be honest, i think that would be a better buisness model going fowards, but i dont know.


I guess they reached this point ( becoming a billion dollar company or what ever it is ) by doing what they do, so i guess there on the right track i suppose?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 16:50:57


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Wicked Warp Spider






Not defending GW because they are expensive as heck. Thats why I pretty much always (90%) buy stuff on ebay or 3rd party discounted retailers.

But can I ask is trhere any particular reason you went to GW to buy a base?

A quick google for 50mm bases yielded 5x bases at £1.45 on amazon....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in nz
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Near Jupiter.

Because i live in New Zealand, amazon i dont think is a thing over here, and if it is i didn't know lol.


And i didn't personally go there, i got it ordered by some one else who went there for me. Only just saw how much it costs.

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Sinewy Scourge




GW 50mm are £1
   
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Near Jupiter.

It was a 130mm i think.
[Thumb - DSC01924.JPG]
THIS TYPE OF BASE

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:00:28


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Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Wayniac wrote:
the most expensive wargaming company.


Easily the most expensive war gaming company out there.

are GW games the most expensive table top miniature war game?

eh. some games and level of play could be. some can be very cheap to start and get into.

cant say exact money wise but imho i feel like malifaux can get stupid expensive at a "competitive" level as last i recall you build your list right as you are about the start the game meaning you need basically everything for a faction or two to be "competitive"

also are we excluding alternative means of purchase or MSRP?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

When i first started this hobby last year. Every shop that is not GW is cheaper. I dont understand how this works well for them. Even if its only a small amount cheaper, it is always cheaper from other places...


Oh who cares, this is the price you pay for not looking to see what else is out there. Like instead of me buying green stuff, i probably could find cheaper larger quantity of the same type of thing with a different name. But i guess the question of why this works for them is still worth while talking about.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:09:41


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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I use 3rd party sites within the UK and it honestly is not all that bad. I looked into games like Bolt action and infinity not so long ago and I noticed the prices are not too far apart.

I will say that some kits seem way overpriced. But all in all, they are just as expensive as everything else nowadays IMHO.

Edit: I am aware that for everywhere else in the world they bumped up there prices quite substantially!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:09:21


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Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

They have stuff which everyone wants and only they make it.

You don't have to support Citadel though. There's nothing unique about that branch - paint is paint, and rest is common items made in China with pretty logo on them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:10:00


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Star Wars Legion is just as costly, then there is Drop Ship Commander.

GW is costly, but when you compare the models and the size/amount of plastic you get, they really are not the most, especially b.c you can get cheap armies. There are 2k armies that are under $350USD, you just wont like all the models.

IMO MTG is way more costly if you are playing the meta, that game is a hell hole for your savings (I know i play tournaments for years).

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Near Jupiter.

 Alphabet wrote:
I use 3rd party sites within the UK and it honestly is not all that bad. I looked into games like Bolt action and infinity not so long ago and I noticed the prices are not too far apart.

I will say that some kits seem way overpriced. But all in all, they are just as expensive as everything else nowadays IMHO.

Edit: I am aware that for everywhere else in the world they bumped up there prices quite substantially!



Oh because the brexit stuff they bumped it?

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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Kingdom Death and Privateer Press are both more costly on a model to model basis. The benefit for PP at least is that you generally need less models. But their models cost the same or more, individually. So ymmv.

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I think it depends on what you want to play. A guy who wanders into a GW store and buys a brand new Primaris force, with Gman and Calgar, and all the options and then has them order him a Astreus...

Versus the guy who buys Dark Imperium stuff from Ebay, and amazon and a Astreus from a dubious seller on another site in a few away country..

That is like $1500 between them, and they have the same thing.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




If you measure cost purely by the amount you pay per piece of plastic then GW is up near the top end of being expensive.

If you were to measure it by the amount you pay per opportunity to play with your plastic then it would come out as one of the cheapest. You can be reasonably confident that the plastic model you buy today will still be playable and that there will still be a player community in 5, 10 or 20 years. So the durability of that product as part of a playing experience is on a different scale to all the smaller companies which come and go. The durability of that player community is not an accident, GW invest quite heavily in promoting it in a lot of ways and the costs of all that get amortized into the costs of the piece of plastic you buy.

I have had a lot of miniatures in my time and most of them are all but worthless now as the games no longer exist or are not supported. The GW miniatures I own still have value, even if I never wanted to play again they would still have value as I could probably sell them on for 30-50% of their current sale price (depending on paint quality and current desirability). Those other miniatures may have had a lower initial purchase price but were they actually better value?
   
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I mean... it is the most expensive for a company that sells thier own models, but if you want to see some crazy prices check out some of these independent miniature companies selling add ons for war gamers. I see addons and counts as models often that are scaled for 40k but run 50+% more. i get a good laugh sometimes going to aftermarket bits sites to see how much they want for some bits.

and before somebody tells me how expensive it is to make those things and time to design I have multiple 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 sla) and design my own bits and full counts as models. yes it takes time, and no the resin/ PLA or ABS are not free but i look at the cost of some of these and really think people are crazy to spend $40 for replacment weapons on a contemptor dred (as an example of something that actually exists)

Thsi does not excuse GW's premium price for plastic but it does add a little context...

on the paint GW paint is garbage switch to army painter or vallejo, dropper bottle plus wet pallet = best investment ever. you cna use a paper towel in a sandwich container with parchment paper on it or somethign like this if you have a 3d printer [link] https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3517666 [/link]

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Made in nz
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

Can we just talk about the citadel paint containers for a moment. They seem to be to be designed to help you waste paint or at least designed in a way where you are more likely to waste paint for various reasons. 1 reason can be when you close the lid to quick after opening it it usually pours down the outsides of the container. 2nd reason the big opening allows more evaporation . 3rd reason, the little lip they put on the inside of the container is there apparently so you can use it to get your paint off, which means you are leaving the cap open letting more evaporate. So am i right that there paint is the most money draining paint ever? lol

edit - Putting a drip tip on the end of them would just be the holy grail savior.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:21:23


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Made in at
Privateer




Austria

Since HIPS has taken over historical wargaming and full metal armies are not necessary any more, GW is the most expensive by far.

Usually a full army ready to play is around 100-200$/€
An army were only metal models are available can still be more expensive. Take a smaller nation for Napoleonics were you need 200 models only available in metal for 1,5-3$ per model and you end up with 400-500.
But also a WW2 skirmish army can be around 400 if only metal/resin models (infantry, artillery and tanks) are available.

A reason why 28mm historical wargaming was not a huge thing until plastic was available as it was considered to expensive by a lot of people


And than you have GW games were a full ready to play army starts at 500$.
But of course you can start to convert snap fit models, add 3rd party bits and stick to an elite faction with core box models available to decrease the price to 200-300$, something you can also do with any other game (no need to buy an expensive metal Norwegian Army for Napoleonics if you can convert the infantry using the existing plastic boxes).

But your starting point for GW is there were most other games ends and compared to other games with a huge number of models, GW is double the price at best.

 Stormatious wrote:
Can we just talk about the citadel paint containers for a moment. They seem to be to be designed to help you waste paint or at least designed in a way where you are more likely to waste paint for various reasons.


Because selling paint for 10 times the prize to finance those fancy pots is not enough

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:51:51


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Longtime Dakkanaut






 timetowaste85 wrote:
Kingdom Death and Privateer Press are both more costly on a model to model basis. The benefit for PP at least is that you generally need less models. But their models cost the same or more, individually. So ymmv.


On man i forgot about Kingdom Death, such a great game, wish i could play it more.

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12k+ SOLD (to many armies)
5k
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[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I mean... it is the most expensive for a company that sells thier own models, but if you want to see some crazy prices check out some of these independent miniature companies selling add ons for war gamers. I see addons and counts as models often that are scaled for 40k but run 50+% more. i get a good laugh sometimes going to aftermarket bits sites to see how much they want for some bits.

and before somebody tells me how expensive it is to make those things and time to design I have multiple 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 sla) and design my own bits and full counts as models. yes it takes time, and no the resin/ PLA or ABS are not free but i look at the cost of some of these and really think people are crazy to spend $40 for replacment weapons on a contemptor dred (as an example of something that actually exists)

Thsi does not excuse GW's premium price for plastic but it does add a little context...

on the paint GW paint is garbage switch to army painter or vallejo, dropper bottle plus wet pallet = best investment ever. you cna use a paper towel in a sandwich container with parchment paper on it or somethign like this if you have a 3d printer [link] https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3517666 [/link]


Yeah, ill do that. But i feel sorry for GW, because i feel most people dont buy citadel ( for these reasons ), so i dont get it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:26:28


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 Stormatious wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
I mean... it is the most expensive for a company that sells thier own models, but if you want to see some crazy prices check out some of these independent miniature companies selling add ons for war gamers. I see addons and counts as models often that are scaled for 40k but run 50+% more. i get a good laugh sometimes going to aftermarket bits sites to see how much they want for some bits.

and before somebody tells me how expensive it is to make those things and time to design I have multiple 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 sla) and design my own bits and full counts as models. yes it takes time, and no the resin/ PLA or ABS are not free but i look at the cost of some of these and really think people are crazy to spend $40 for replacment weapons on a contemptor dred (as an example of something that actually exists)

Thsi does not excuse GW's premium price for plastic but it does add a little context...

on the paint GW paint is garbage switch to army painter or vallejo, dropper bottle plus wet pallet = best investment ever. you cna use a paper towel in a sandwich container with parchment paper on it or somethign like this if you have a 3d printer [link] https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3517666 [/link]


Yeah, ill do that. But i feel sorry for GW, because i feel most people dont buy citadel ( for these reasons ), so i dont get it.


why feel sorry for GW? they choose to use pots, they get feedback in lots of forums, facebook posts etc where poeple express preferring dropper bottles and they do not listen. they also charge more than most companies per mL of paint. its not liek thier paint is even that great. heck thier washes are basically designed to tip over and waste wash so i am just done with them. i buy a lot of thier models though so they get plenty of my $

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It pays to shop a bit. For example, you can get a yard of green stuff from various places for under $15 USD.
   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

Yeah, its the price you pay for being not smart.

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Made in ru
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Russia, Moscow

 Stormatious wrote:
Can we just talk about the citadel paint containers for a moment. They seem to be to be designed to help you waste paint

Of course they are.

i feel most people dont buy citadel

It is easier to manipulate people with shiny brand and having closest shop only sell Citadel paints than you think. And the high price just makes people think that they buy best stuff because they spend more money.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/01 17:33:39


 
   
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Peoria IL

If you qualify it as "price to have a proper force for a regular game on the table"... I can't think of anything that comes close to GW. But given that I own all the forces in my sig and a couple more... clearly hasn't deterred me...

...but other than books, never bought anything directly from GW

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Near Jupiter.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Stormatious wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
I mean... it is the most expensive for a company that sells thier own models, but if you want to see some crazy prices check out some of these independent miniature companies selling add ons for war gamers. I see addons and counts as models often that are scaled for 40k but run 50+% more. i get a good laugh sometimes going to aftermarket bits sites to see how much they want for some bits.

and before somebody tells me how expensive it is to make those things and time to design I have multiple 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 sla) and design my own bits and full counts as models. yes it takes time, and no the resin/ PLA or ABS are not free but i look at the cost of some of these and really think people are crazy to spend $40 for replacment weapons on a contemptor dred (as an example of something that actually exists)

Thsi does not excuse GW's premium price for plastic but it does add a little context...

on the paint GW paint is garbage switch to army painter or vallejo, dropper bottle plus wet pallet = best investment ever. you cna use a paper towel in a sandwich container with parchment paper on it or somethign like this if you have a 3d printer [link] https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3517666 [/link]


Yeah, ill do that. But i feel sorry for GW, because i feel most people dont buy citadel ( for these reasons ), so i dont get it.


why feel sorry for GW? they choose to use pots, they get feedback in lots of forums, facebook posts etc where poeple express preferring dropper bottles and they do not listen. they also charge more than most companies per mL of paint. its not liek thier paint is even that great. heck thier washes are basically designed to tip over and waste wash so i am just done with them. i buy a lot of thier models though so they get plenty of my $



ACtualy the last two paints i bought from GW are extremely lumpy, even if i shake the gak out of them they are heaps of lumps in them. I can take a picture if this is uncommon.

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happy_inquisitor wrote:
If you were to measure it by the amount you pay per opportunity to play with your plastic then it would come out as one of the cheapest. You can be reasonably confident that the plastic model you buy today will still be playable and that there will still be a player community in 5, 10 or 20 years. So the durability of that product as part of a playing experience is on a different scale to all the smaller companies which come and go. The durability of that player community is not an accident, GW invest quite heavily in promoting it in a lot of ways and the costs of all that get amortized into the costs of the piece of plastic you buy.

This is an underappreciated point. GW's high prices partly reflect its investment in brick-and-mortar stores, a magazine, and a heavy community presence that's focused on bringing in new blood. That's the kind of stuff that keeps a wargame alive over the long term. You're effectively subsidizing the infrastructure that other game companies offload more of on to the community.

Dunno if I can defend the AU/NZ upcharge, though.

G00fySmiley wrote:I mean... it is the most expensive for a company that sells thier own models, but if you want to see some crazy prices check out some of these independent miniature companies selling add ons for war gamers. I see addons and counts as models often that are scaled for 40k but run 50+% more. i get a good laugh sometimes going to aftermarket bits sites to see how much they want for some bits.

and before somebody tells me how expensive it is to make those things and time to design I have multiple 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 sla) and design my own bits and full counts as models. yes it takes time, and no the resin/ PLA or ABS are not free but i look at the cost of some of these and really think people are crazy to spend $40 for replacment weapons on a contemptor dred (as an example of something that actually exists)

Ever tried running an online store- including keeping a nice-looking website running, maintaining stock, doing all the shipping and customer service- for an extremely niche product that maybe a few hundred people in the world are going to want? I haven't either, but it sounds like a pain in the ass that I'd want to see some profit off of.

Aside from that, those couple hundred weirdos who want that contemptor dread weapon really want that contemptor dread to look exactly how they want it. There's a huge spectrum of willingness to invest in hobby, and "pay a lot to get exactly what I want" is just as valid an end member as the eBay scrap hound.

   
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 Formerly Wu wrote:
happy_inquisitor wrote:
If you were to measure it by the amount you pay per opportunity to play with your plastic then it would come out as one of the cheapest. You can be reasonably confident that the plastic model you buy today will still be playable and that there will still be a player community in 5, 10 or 20 years. So the durability of that product as part of a playing experience is on a different scale to all the smaller companies which come and go. The durability of that player community is not an accident, GW invest quite heavily in promoting it in a lot of ways and the costs of all that get amortized into the costs of the piece of plastic you buy.

This is an underappreciated point. GW's high prices partly reflect its investment in brick-and-mortar stores, a magazine, and a heavy community presence that's focused on bringing in new blood. That's the kind of stuff that keeps a wargame alive over the long term. You're effectively subsidizing the infrastructure that other game companies offload more of on to the community.

Dunno if I can defend the AU/NZ upcharge, though.

G00fySmiley wrote:I mean... it is the most expensive for a company that sells thier own models, but if you want to see some crazy prices check out some of these independent miniature companies selling add ons for war gamers. I see addons and counts as models often that are scaled for 40k but run 50+% more. i get a good laugh sometimes going to aftermarket bits sites to see how much they want for some bits.

and before somebody tells me how expensive it is to make those things and time to design I have multiple 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 sla) and design my own bits and full counts as models. yes it takes time, and no the resin/ PLA or ABS are not free but i look at the cost of some of these and really think people are crazy to spend $40 for replacment weapons on a contemptor dred (as an example of something that actually exists)

Ever tried running an online store- including keeping a nice-looking website running, maintaining stock, doing all the shipping and customer service- for an extremely niche product that maybe a few hundred people in the world are going to want? I haven't either, but it sounds like a pain in the ass that I'd want to see some profit off of.

Aside from that, those couple hundred weirdos who want that contemptor dread weapon really want that contemptor dread to look exactly how they want it. There's a huge spectrum of willingness to invest in hobby, and "pay a lot to get exactly what I want" is just as valid an end member as the eBay scrap hound.


i have a few sites i maintain and run a bank of servers. but i do not have experience in actual store online selling physical products (only software and server space/data backup) as for stock though... if i were doign bits i would just print to order or keep a few on hand. on the sla ones you can knock out detailed small prints like that in a few hours per part. my form labs2 was ~$2.5k though so if it were not a hobby and a buisness you would need to factor that cost plus resin. and yea its niche, I am not saying nobody will pay $40 for 2 contemptor guns obviously they will i just question if its better to sell them for $8-10 a piece and then more people would buy them /shrug. and with how the printer works you could fill a buildplate with them and they would take the same amoutn of time to print 10 as it would 2

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