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2019/05/01 18:39:45
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
As far as the factions being used - nothing will change really except Ynnari will just be alloitoc. Eldar soup composition will change slightly. Imperial soup will likely just move to crusaders or gallants. Those will still be the top players.
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2019/05/02 03:31:44
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
A few Nerfs to knights. Ynnari are getting the index change that will greatly change how they play. Eldar psychic powers that were making soup super awesome were nerfed. Orks got a Nerf to mob up. Grey knights got some nerfs (some of which were kind of out of left field).
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2019/05/02 03:37:26
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
2019/05/02 07:40:42
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
I don't think we will see any real shake up in the top table meta. The winning armies will be largely the same as before, just with slightly different compositions and (hopefully) and bit more variety than the past 12 months.
2019/05/02 07:46:08
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Cynista wrote: I don't think we will see any real shake up in the top table meta. The winning armies will be largely the same as before, just with slightly different compositions and (hopefully) and bit more variety than the past 12 months.
Well, Ynnari changed a lot (SfD, Word of the Phoenix) and will no longer be seen at top tables.
Former moderator 40kOnline
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psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
Seconded.
Instead, one can boost the inv. save of two GMNKs to 3++ by using sanctuary and the strategem.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Chaos Daemons. With Ynnari gone, Daemons are now the highest-win rate army according to 40Kstats by a solid margin and they didn't lose anything. Hell, Daemon Princes can now charge over stuff again. Lootaz were one of the few things reliably mowing down huge Plaguebearer units. The Jim Vesal special is the army to beat atm and the FAQ just hit on all the competition.
Eldar Flyer spam got better. Move through bases isn't a huge deal (I feel), I think, and many of their natural predators (double-shooting Dark Reapers, Lootaz, Mental Onslaught, etc.. ) took a hit. With more Drukhari-heavy lists losing Doom and Ynnari nerfed into oblivion, Eldar effectively just became a mono-build army at the top tables until Eldar flyers go up in price in CA 2019.
Imperial Soup got better. Smash Captains are back to take up anti-tank duty after the Castellan left (and ironically, they are better against Eldar-flyers than the Castellan ever was). Crusaders have been tearing up the place for a while. Astra Militarum is still insanely good.
Tau: Tau have been top-tier 1 outside ITC for a while and that doesn't change (though they probably still struggle in ITC-hammer). Probably the army to collect in Europe, as nu-GW playtesters tend to play ITC and thus miss how insanely crazy that army is. It's like playing 2017 Ynnari except the playtesters don't see the problem
Got worse:
Drukhari/Harlequins: Loosing doom is a big thing if you wanna push to the top. Drukhari is still a solid army on it's own, but they do take a step down.
Genestealer Cult: Got a little worse, with Mental Onslaught gone and the 3" deepstrike being a once-a-game. But getting proper "cloud of flies" could balance it out, maybe?
Ynnari: They just got curb-stomped with a revenge-pron nerf by all the salty people they beat since late 7th edition, though it probably doesn't matter for the top-top tournament tables, as the best players left that army behind a while ago. The few remaining people who actually built and painted thematic Ynnari armies with a mix of stuff in unified colour schemes for the love of the lore and wanna stick with it now get to play at sub-Grey Knight levels.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/05/02 10:01:26
2019/05/02 10:02:50
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
Can Tzeentch Daemons still get 2++ or was that fixed? (Impossible robe + warp surge to 3++ then Ephemeral Form makes it effectively 2++ without violating Impossible Robe restriction as it technically adds to the roll rather than changing the save - or that used to work...)
2019/05/02 10:11:47
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
Can Tzeentch Daemons still get 2++ or was that fixed? (Impossible robe + warp surge to 3++ then Ephemeral Form makes it effectively 2++ without violating Impossible Robe restriction as it technically adds to the roll rather than changing the save - or that used to work...)
2++ Daemons got fixed last year already. Warp Surge is limited to 4++, which also nerfed Khorne Daemons. No more 3++ thanks to the Armor of Scorn and Warp Surge. But yeah Daemons can put out pretty good lists, thanks to 4 or so good units. The rest is gak, but no one cares as long as DPs, Plaguebearers and Letter and Horror bombs are a thing.
2019/05/02 10:20:56
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
Can Tzeentch Daemons still get 2++ or was that fixed? (Impossible robe + warp surge to 3++ then Ephemeral Form makes it effectively 2++ without violating Impossible Robe restriction as it technically adds to the roll rather than changing the save - or that used to work...)
Don't see anything in daemon faq about that one.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/05/02 10:23:01
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Can Tzeentch Daemons still get 2++ or was that fixed? (Impossible robe + warp surge to 3++ then Ephemeral Form makes it effectively 2++ without violating Impossible Robe restriction as it technically adds to the roll rather than changing the save - or that used to work...)
No. Warp Surge was FAQed to cap at 4++ as well in the last 2018 FAQ (the one from 6 months ago). Warpsurge on a model with the Impossible Robe doesn't do anything.
2019/05/02 10:39:20
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
that is one one character, and cost a psychic power, 2CP, doesn't work out of gate or deep strike, gets ignored by mortal wounds. And you can just shot the living hell out of everything else in the GK army. Don't archons have ++2 too? I don't see people over react about those, and a draigo or NDK ain't no castellan.
Plus there was other stuff nerfed too. Brother captins, the brotherhood champion twice.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2019/05/02 10:46:54
Subject: Re:What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Chaos Daemons. With Ynnari gone, Daemons are now the highest-win rate army according to 40Kstats by a solid margin and they didn't lose anything. Hell, Daemon Princes can now charge over stuff again. Lootaz were one of the few things reliably mowing down huge Plaguebearer units. The Jim Vesal special is the army to beat atm and the FAQ just hit on all the competition.
Eldar Flyer spam got better. Move through bases isn't a huge deal (I feel), I think, and many of their natural predators (double-shooting Dark Reapers, Lootaz, Mental Onslaught, etc.. ) took a hit. With more Drukhari-heavy lists losing Doom and Ynnari nerfed into oblivion, Eldar effectively just became a mono-build army at the top tables until Eldar flyers go up in price in CA 2019.
Imperial Soup got better. Smash Captains are back to take up anti-tank duty after the Castellan left (and ironically, they are better against Eldar-flyers than the Castellan ever was). Crusaders have been tearing up the place for a while. Astra Militarum is still insanely good.
Tau: Tau have been top-tier 1 outside ITC for a while and that doesn't change (though they probably still struggle in ITC-hammer). Probably the army to collect in Europe, as nu-GW playtesters tend to play ITC and thus miss how insanely crazy that army is. It's like playing 2017 Ynnari except the playtesters don't see the problem
Got worse:
Drukhari/Harlequins: Loosing doom is a big thing if you wanna push to the top. Drukhari is still a solid army on it's own, but they do take a step down.
Genestealer Cult: Got a little worse, with Mental Onslaught gone and the 3" deepstrike being a once-a-game. But getting proper "cloud of flies" could balance it out, maybe?
Ynnari: They just got curb-stomped with a revenge-pron nerf by all the salty people they beat since late 7th edition, though it probably doesn't matter for the top-top tournament tables, as the best players left that army behind a while ago. The few remaining people who actually built and painted thematic Ynnari armies with a mix of stuff in unified colour schemes for the love of the lore and wanna stick with it now get to play at sub-Grey Knight levels.
Yeah no GSC arn't exactlly struggling, they lost the totally broken psychic power they are far from a weak faction.
Also Ynnari as bad a grey knights you have got be be having a laugh with that one they still have free access to 3 codex's 2 of which will still be top tier competative, that's a rediculous over statement.
IG just got better aswell as the biggest issue with their super heavies just got nerfed.
2019/05/02 10:48:01
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
that is one one character, and cost a psychic power, 2CP, doesn't work out of gate or deep strike, gets ignored by mortal wounds. And you can just shot the living hell out of everything else in the GK army. Don't archons have ++2 too? I don't see people over react about those, and a draigo or NDK ain't no castellan.
Plus there was other stuff nerfed too. Brother captins, the brotherhood champion twice.
Archons have shadow field which disappears as soon as you fail a roll and you're stuck on a 5+ armour save. I would say there is a big enough difference there.
psipso wrote: GK without doubt. IK and Ynari still have plenity of viable units to play with it. GK they only got one single unit in the whole codex that was decent. This unit got nerfed to ashes after the faq.
A 2++ like that should never have been in the game to start with so it was barely a nerf.
that is one one character, and cost a psychic power, 2CP, doesn't work out of gate or deep strike, gets ignored by mortal wounds. And you can just shot the living hell out of everything else in the GK army. Don't archons have ++2 too? I don't see people over react about those, and a draigo or NDK ain't no castellan.
Plus there was other stuff nerfed too. Brother captins, the brotherhood champion twice.
Archons are a T3 W5 5+ save model that also have a 2++ save which is lost the first time you fail it (and can't be rerolled). They're really not in the same ballpark.
With regards to the thread's topic, I think most Eldar lists have taken a substantial hit. Drukhari and Harlequins lose out on Doom (and Harlequins weren't in a great spot anyway), Ynnari seems much weaker in their new version. I'm guessing that pure Craftworlds or Drukhari lists will be the competitive builds now.
2019/05/02 12:08:09
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
orks lost loota star which someplayers seem to think is the end of the world but given how meh the extra shots usually were I am not too concerned personally. (this is to the mod bup part)
mob up only works for boys so no other units like huge meganob units etc.
the sad one is you have to reroll numeb rof shots for deffguns each time they fire meaning you cnanot after rolling 3 shots choose to spend the cp to shoot again with 3 shots each so you may now spend cp to end up with 1 shot per loota. this was the bigger nerf than losing mob up imo
SAG and SSAG got buffs, you now rolld strength before you choose a target. no more whifing on str and being forced to shoot a str 5 weapon at a T8 model.
ramshacle no longer works to reduce the number of mortal wounds
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2019/05/02 12:10:01
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
G00fySmiley wrote: orks lost loota star which someplayers seem to think is the end of the world but given how meh the extra shots usually were I am not too concerned personally. (this is to the mod bup part)
They lost 42% of their firepower before factoring in ddd.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/05/02 12:32:18
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
G00fySmiley wrote: orks lost loota star which someplayers seem to think is the end of the world but given how meh the extra shots usually were I am not too concerned personally. (this is to the mod bup part)
They lost 42% of their firepower before factoring in ddd.
40% (10/25 assuming you are adding in 10 lootas into a 15 man) and not ei said not concerned personally. in practice I (again in games i have run them and mobbed up) often were either overkilling something, or the thin i was shooting them at would have been better taken out by something stronger than lootas that i was not taking in order to spend the points on 25 lootas.. at this point even pre nerf I run 3 units of lootas with 5 per unit. they go work, plink of funits and are not one big command point sink. they are even fairly low priority to other things on the board like blastajets, boys mobs, and mek guns. i find 5 man units (againpersonal experience ymmv) to take their points equivilant off the board and then some most of the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 12:33:22
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2019/05/02 12:53:04
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Karol wrote: Don't archons have ++2 too? I don't see people over react about those
Probably because they're currently a detriment rather than a benefit.
Personally I'd be more than happy to see them changed. IMO a 5++ with a -1 to hit would fit the theme far better than the current 2++.
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You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2019/05/02 13:00:15
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
IIRC, if you Protect Asurmen, he will have a 2++ in CC (but not at range). But that's a of points for riding on a T4 S5 "beatstick" with no movement shenanigans and a reasonable number of A and W. It's usually better to just hack through his 2+ than waste good-AP attacks on him, anyways.
2019/05/02 13:33:31
Subject: Re:What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Admittedly, one of the hardest nerfs is to FW giant things like Marauder Bombers or Thunderhawks. In Dawn of War-Style deployments, it‘s literally impossible to put them on the table without some part of the model hanging over the edge/deployment line.
Would be hilarious if GW now released the fabled plastic Thunderhawk.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 13:34:01
2019/05/02 13:50:13
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Sunny Side Up wrote: Admittedly, one of the hardest nerfs is to FW giant things like Marauder Bombers or Thunderhawks. In Dawn of War-Style deployments, it‘s literally impossible to put them on the table without some part of the model hanging over the edge/deployment line.
Would be hilarious if GW now released the fabled plastic Thunderhawk.
Actually, since those things have bases, you can overhang any part of the model, because the rule says "Or"
A: If a rule says it affects models that are ‘wholly within’ then it only applies if every part of the model’s base (or hull) is within. If a rule says it affects models that are ‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of the model’s base (or hull) is within.
So as long as the base is within the deployment zone, it's fine to hang "outside it". Edge of the battlefield is still a no-go.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 13:52:32
2019/05/02 14:13:48
Subject: Re:What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
Deathwatch: slight nerf. No more BD with SIA, but I honestly was usually within half range with my vets squads so not a big deal. Thing that it really hurt was Biker squads and Terminator squads, which sucks because they were only borderline competitive as it was, now they're more niche. Tome of Etoclades got better. Might not be able to put Bikes in mixed squads in the teleportarium, wording is confusing. We can double tap deepstriking Aeldari units that can fly within 12 inches now, which is hilarious (though Eldar factions got so many nerfs who knows if we'll even see them much anymore).
Ynarri: nerfed to the ground. I'm really not sure what they are supposed to be good at. Now will be soup lists, maybe occasionally with the Yncarne thrown in. I'd be very surprised to see much Ynarri around after a few months.
Craftworld: as a mono-faction doing ok, but will be much less likely to be allied into other armies. The Aeldari changes hurt Drukari/Harlequin primary armies the most.
Drukari: fliers can't move block, so that hurt them a little. Vexator mask much less useful. Drukari soup very hurt by Craftworld psychic powers changes. Overall will see less of them on top tables.
Harlequins: overall probably about the same-ish. Flip belts work again, so assault focused Harlequins are back on the menu. Solitaire movement slightly reduced when Blitzing, so that hurt a little. Again, loss of Doom from allied Craftworld hurts in the competitive scene, but the changes to knights slightly increases the effectiveness of Fusion, so not a completely terrible hit. Haywire only became crucial once the Knight codex got released, so the cost effectiveness of Haywire ebbs and flows with the prevalence and toughness of knights.
Assassin's: slight nerf, more CPs for requisition and can't requisition if you already have assassin's. For me this makes it more difficult to decide to take Culexus really. Sometimes I would take 6-7 assassin's and only pick a Culexus in the requisition slot against certain armies, now if I'm going assassin heavy I've got to figure out if a Culexus is going to be in there... not a huge deal, just something to figure out.
Sisters: I love Sisters, but who cares, they're being reworked from the ground up per GW after the awful Beta rules, so anything from this point to the release doesn't matter.
The winner of the April FAQ is:
TAU!!! They were already winning tournaments as mono-codex, essentially got through this FAQ unscathed, and practically all their top-tier competition got nerfed in one form or another. My prediction is the next 6 months or more will be high tide for the TAU. Doesn't mean they'll win everything or anything like that, but I think they'll be one of the factions to beat for the next while.
Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool...
2019/05/02 14:28:24
Subject: What armies did the faq nerf? Which armies got better? Also how are orks?
The nerf to flyer blocking hurts doom scythe lists, but wraiths regained their ability to bypass screens when charging. They sort of fixed night scythes so units can disembark if it gets shot down turn 1, but they still suck so meh.
Overall I think we benefited from armies above us getting nerfed, but not by much.
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