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Is the Forgeworld Leviathon worth getting fro a Space Wolves force? I already have a couple of Redemptors and don't want to make the investment in the Imperial Armour book and an expensive dreadnought if it isn't really worth it. If it is worth it, which ranged weapons are better?

I really like the look of it, just trying to justify the cost.

Is it worth £70? Probably not. Is it worth the points? Yes.

It's a good unit. Tons of firepower and 4++ save. But it's Forgeworld prices, I can't tell you if it's worth it for you.

Well, it is pretty much the coolest looking dread, and it actually has good rules. I wouldn't buy it if it was just for gameplay purposes, though. Only get it if you actually like the model as well, or you'll regret it if it gets nerfed.

The storm cannons are pretty much the most efficient. The Grav Flux Bombards are also sweet, but they have short range so you usually can't get the most out of them without moving which gets you a -1 to hit, sadly.

Park it next to a Lieutenant and it'll work wonders.

14 T8 wounds behind a 2+/4++ save gives it Knight-levels of durability whilst still benefitting from SW character auras and Iron Priest repairs.

Dual Stormcannon arrays is probably the best loadout. There may be some mileage in one storm cannon and one grav flux bombard but against the majority of targets, storm cannons are better.

Keep a WGBL nearby to reroll 1s to wound. Pay 1CP for Wolf's Eye if you need to move or target units with a penalty to hit. Pay 1CP for "Wisdom of the Ancients" to give the Dread and units within 6" a reroll of 1s to hit.

I am seriously toying with the idea of getting one. If you are not sure now, wait until the Space Wolf Leviathan comes out (only Blood Angel and Night Lords so far).

On a similar note, any opinions on the land raider Achilles?
The T8 2+/4++ gives decent durability and the weaponry seems decent too, if a little short range. Being able to carry a six man screen seems useful too.
It looks expensive but maybe worth it?

I love the model. It looks cool, has good rules and a fair point cost. But how sayd it is FW.

I have two for my CSM based solely on looks.

I can't say they're really worth their cost most of the time, probably because the CSM has only a 5+ invulnerable save and they're instant mega-targets. The cheapest options (twin butcher cannon arrays) is still an eye watering 290-ish points. Being Hellforged it can't be fixed or healed by Warpsmiths, etc.

It's hopeless in close combat unless you give it an equally expensive close-combat arm (coupled with a meltagun, making for a 50+ point weapon army) and then you're sacrificing shooting. The helflamer is fun, and a damage 2 flamer is nice, but they remain 17 points a pop after CA.

Mine end up dying far too quickly to enemy fire and I hesitate to take them in most cases. I hear other people (mainly Loyalists) running them to great effect, occasionally winning the whole damn game, etc. Not for me.

kingheff wrote:
On a similar note, any opinions on the land raider Achilles?
The T8 2+/4++ gives decent durability and the weaponry seems decent too, if a little short range. Being able to carry a six man screen seems useful too.
It looks expensive but maybe worth it?

Not really. It may be Knight-level durable but it's also Knight-level price without Knight-level damage; it doesn't have the volume to beat past Invulnerable saves or shoot soft targets, the power to engage T8 targets efficiently at all, or the range to avoid getting casually tarpitted.

I've got a couple of 30k armies so I've fielded (or faced) more than a few of the FW Space Marine units; most of the Dreadnoughts and the flyers work well enough, but aside from the Sicaran most of the tanks aren't really usable.

I love mine. I've yet to play a game with it where it failed to impress/do its job.

I did alright with the Leviathan Dread, you really have to commit to what you want it to be killing and guess correctly what it will be facing though.
I did the double grav canon and it massacred hordes and could destroy vehicles, next time I ran it nobody ran hordes and everybody kept their vehicles distanced so it was 2-3 turns between vehicle kills.

Can the Storm Cannon on the FW website be used on the Left and right arms? The picture makes it look like it can only be used on the right arm.

Yes it can. The shoulder joint is reversible.

Azeroth wrote:
Can the Storm Cannon on the FW website be used on the Left and right arms? The picture makes it look like it can only be used on the right arm.

It is reversable. In fact it's quite easy to magnetise and then you can freely swap weapons around!

Yeah, magnetizing is pretty easy - mine aren't done very cleverly, but it's simple. You'd want wide thin disc magnets if you go the "easier" route. One trick for weapons is to ignore or tuck the power cards into the elbow instead of having them reach the back of the upper arm.

How can someone check, if his army can take a specific FW unit without buying their books?

Karol wrote:
How can someone check, if his army can take a specific FW unit without buying their books?

Battlescribe?

Probably the closest thing, are you considering a leviathan now?

I don't have the cash, so no. But it would be nice to know, if Grey Knights can take them. Maybe someone could let me use NDKs as them or something.

Grey Knights can't use anything in the IA book outside their own chapter (with the Doomglaive Dreadnaught and the psycannon Razorback and whatnot).

Yep, they have a number of vaguely special Grey Knight units (like the ole multi-melta Razorback etc.) but are not privy to the generic Relic space marine tech.

Kind of a sad, but it does fix the issue of getting rules very easily. thanks guys.

Karol wrote:
How can someone check, if his army can take a specific FW unit without buying their books?

is the Levi worth it, that depends.
for a casual list, yes. for competative, maybe.

If you play a SM faction, you should have one in you collection imo. It's one of the top units in these factions, and despite doomsayers, hasn't been nerfed, but actually buffed (can take 3 missiles now instead of 1), a clear indicator that GW see the unit's profile as a central part of what SMs should have in the toolkit. It thrives especially well with might of heroes to make it T9, tigerius for -1 to hit, etc. If you're getting one buy it now, as there's a 2-for-1 deal on its weapons, saving you £13.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually think there's a case to be made for running two, depending on your faction

For what it's worth, it's also a great looking model, that's really fun to assemble .

 grouchoben wrote:
If you play a SM faction, you should have one in you collection imo. It's one of the top units in these factions, and despite doomsayers, hasn't been nerfed, but actually buffed (can take 3 missiles now instead of 1), a clear indicator that GW see the unit's profile as a central part of what SMs should have in the toolkit. It thrives especially well with might of heroes to make it T9, tigerius for -1 to hit, etc. If you're getting one buy it now, as there's a 2-for-1 deal on its weapons, saving you £13.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually think there's a case to be made for running two, depending on your faction

2 ? what faction

 zedsdead wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
If you play a SM faction, you should have one in you collection imo. It's one of the top units in these factions, and despite doomsayers, hasn't been nerfed, but actually buffed (can take 3 missiles now instead of 1), a clear indicator that GW see the unit's profile as a central part of what SMs should have in the toolkit. It thrives especially well with might of heroes to make it T9, tigerius for -1 to hit, etc. If you're getting one buy it now, as there's a 2-for-1 deal on its weapons, saving you £13.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually think there's a case to be made for running two, depending on your faction

2 ? what faction

Ultramarines do well with Leviathans I believe. With Guilliman's aura double storm cannons can basically delete one unit per turn. 2s to hit w/reroll, 3s to wound most stuff w/reroll, -2AP, D2 and 20! shots is going to kill some stuff. Basically a dread predator chassis, or a 10 man marine squad per turn.

 harlokin wrote:
For what it's worth, it's also a great looking model, that's really fun to assemble .

I bought two solely based on looks...didn't have the index and don't even use Battlescribe, but it appealed to me so strongly as the best looking dreadnought. I wasn't sad to find that they're not awful...but I will say they're one of my more underperforming units. :(

Quasistellar wrote:
Well, it is pretty much the coolest looking dread, and it actually has good rules. I wouldn't buy it if it was just for gameplay purposes, though. Only get it if you actually like the model as well, or you'll regret it if it gets nerfed.

The storm cannons are pretty much the most efficient. The Grav Flux Bombards are also sweet, but they have short range so you usually can't get the most out of them without moving which gets you a -1 to hit, sadly.

Use a drop pod and be iron hands, both problems solved, Storm Cannons are still much better though

For armies that can't take them how do people run them, do they have to take a space marine detachment or is there a FW detachment you can glue on to a normal list?

Karol wrote:
For armies that can't take them how do people run them, do they have to take a space marine detachment or is there a FW detachment you can glue on to a normal list?

Any space marine chapter can take them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
For what it's worth, it's also a great looking model, that's really fun to assemble .

I bought two solely based on looks...didn't have the index and don't even use Battlescribe, but it appealed to me so strongly as the best looking dreadnought. I wasn't sad to find that they're not awful...but I will say they're one of my more underperforming units. :(

Leviathan is the best unit for its points in the Space Marine range, you must be doing something wrong if it doesn't pay for its points at least once.

To Illustrate how redicilously tough it is - you need over 2000 points worth of Tau Broadside fire directed at it to kill it or roughly 3 turns of dedicated fire if you have a tech marine to fix you up. It's actually more durable than a Knight due to it having the -1 to hit


If you're playing Chaos you can bump that up to -3 to hit and since it also has a hellbrute keyword - fire with it twice. Making it the best Chaos unit as well, for 289 points