thoughts on the new contrast paints

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**TheScottishTabletop**

here are my thoughts on the new citadel contrast paints.
https://youtu.be/REPVYdInAR8

what do you guys think

**Rybrook**

Cheating

If you were to add to an existing army you'd have the harlequin effect lol, there would be too much variation

**queen_annes_revenge**

I don't have mine yet. I think calling them cheating is a bit much. They're just another tool. I'm interested in seeing what can be done with them. I've ordered the white, flesh tearers, fyreslayer flesh and one of the blues. I'm hoping the white will help with my world eaters but it doesn't mean I'll be skipping on layering my shadows and highlights.

**SeanDrake**

I gave them a 3 but to be fair the real answer is variable. I have not used them all yet but like some of the online reviews I have seen I am finding mixed results.

Certain contrasts paints seem to work much better than others even when following the guidelines provided by GW. Namely you get a much better effect from the deeper colours than some of the others which act more like the traditional shades.

The FW paints that were brought back including the clear colours are much better all round products tbh.

**Knockagh**

I gave 3. I saw them today for the first time in GW store. They had loads of models painted. The best one I saw was a space wolf, but it had been painted with several layers of base before the final result. Most of the others looked rather ropey to be honest. A black marine looked passable, black is hard to pull off easily and it certainly was better than just a black marine.
Perhaps I’m being unfair judging by one look and I will definitely get some. I think they will take a lot of practice. Perhaps given enough effort and time they will prove pretty useful for troops.

**feltmonkey**

I got a few to experiment with, plus a can of the spray primer.

Having tried them out as intended, just painting One Thick Coat over the primer and leaving it at that, they were... well, crap. Blotchy, patchy coverage, washed out and scrappy. Quite disappointing, really. Some are better than others, of course, and I've only tried a very small number. Wyldwood seems the best so far. The yellow leaves tidemarks everywhere. They're quite difficult to control, so you go out of the areas, which is bad with paints this transparent - you can't really paint over your mistakes without reapplying the primer.

I'm going to use them to create different effects, and I have already got slightly more interesting results painting one contrast paint over another selectively into recesses. I reserve judgement for now, but for what they're advertised as, they're no miracle product.

**Stormwall**

They are amazing when used alongside with classic paints or on their own.

**Rybrook**

Could the brown be used by itself like the old chestnut ink?

If it can that may change my mind

**SeanDrake**

Rybrook wrote:
Could the brown be used by itself like the old chestnut ink?

If it can that may change my mind

Probably although the brown is one of the best for actually working as intended .... wyldwood I think it's called.

**Nevelon**

Rybrook wrote:
Could the brown be used by itself like the old chestnut ink?

If it can that may change my mind

Zandri Dust base, over that a glaze of Darkoath Flesh contrast. Drybrush with Bleached Bone.

It’s the same technique I use with old inks (although sometimes skip the final drybrush depending) Base - glaze - (highlight). Looking like the new contrast paints can fil a similar role. They pool a little more in the recesses than the old inks (more shade like), but that’s not a bad thing.

One of the reasons I picked up the Darkoath Flesh is because I use chestnut ink for a lot of things, wanted to see if this could be a replacement. I thought the true browns looked a little darker then I wanted (a glaze over other colors) so went with the paler brown of one of the flesh tones.

Also experimenting with a red, but sadly none of their blues looked right to replace the old Blue Wash.

**Geifer**

Rybrook wrote:
Could the brown be used by itself like the old chestnut ink?

If it can that may change my mind

I just posted this in the Contrast news thread, maybe it helps:

Geifer wrote:
I bought two Contrast paints yesterday to try on some Song of Ice and Fire models that I quickly prepped last night. Since I ain't lettin' GW tell me how to paint, I tried some stuff that will actually be of use to me. After all, we already know that the paints are supposed to work as advertised on the Contrast specific primers.

First batch was primed with Zandri Dust, which I haven't used much in the past and found actually came out pretty smooth. I imagine this is fairly close to how you would expect the Contrast primers to look and fell, but of course I don't actually know. Left to right, Wyldwood; Wyldwood for the furry bits and some belts, everything else is Snakebite Leather; and just Snakebite Leather.

Second batch was primed Mechanicus Standard Grey, which ended up a little grainy either because of the age of the can or because of mishandling. Possibly both. Either way, the plan was to mirror the above approach and the model on the left was painted with Wyldwood. That pretty much instantly turned out not to work, but I finished the model with it anyway to see if fully drying would achieve anything. It didn't.

I just assumed that the grey was too grey or too dark or both and gave the other two models a quick drybrush. The one in the middle is Fortress Grey, the one on the right Pallid Wych Flesh. Both paints aren't exactly spry anymore, so more grain for the grain god! As above, the one in the middle got both Wyldwood and Snakebite Leather, the other one just Snakebite Leather.

On to the things I found of interest.

I realize it's advertised as working best on smooth surfaces, but at least for leather look I found the grainy base layer appealing. The paint still pools and produces light to dark contrast, but the grainy surface breaks up the large, empty areas and allows the paint to dry unevenly and add a bit of texture. I like that. As a next step I'd prepped the surface with a few spatters of green and red before the Contrast paint goes on to enhance that effect. Most importantly, since I'm not too interested in painting large quantities of models to the low standard a quick paintjob with Contrast provides (really, the Song of Ice and Fire models are the only ones I currently intend to treat like that), I was primarily looking for alternate uses for Contrast, and this has me intrigued the most.

Contrast feels like a gloppy wash that flows into recesses but at the same time has the decency to defy gravity and stick around on open surfaces where you can play around with it and control how much pigment you want to build up. That's interesting and needs some getting used to.

As Voss already said. if you want to work with it effectively it is absolutely crucial that you learn how a given color interacts with its base layer. I only have those two paints so I won't be able to widely experiment, but it seems to me that that grey provides an all told darker appearance (and thus less contrast overall) and beige peeks through the Contrast paint a lot more (so more contrast between the lightest and darkest bits). Who knows what other colors do. So it won't do to just slap on paint and hope for the best, this is something you want to know about before you paint.

Overall I'm pretty happy with how Contrast feels. Time for more mad science.

**timetowaste85**

I bought flesh tearers red, plaguebearer green, and the pink that starts w/ a V. Using them for Bloodletters, Plaguebearers and Horrors, respectively. I took a few models that weren’t primed yet (and some that even had basecoats that I reprimed), and went to work. I used Wraithbone primer. I loved the way the red worked on my BLs. I don’t think I need to even bother with extra detail; this one makes them look perfect on its own. PBs will need detail work for sure, but it still looks good on them, although a lighter tone than I previously had. Pink Horrors lookalmost identical to what I did before; pink horror base, red wash. So...happy with that. I did 7 models base in about 20 mins, now I just need to pick out the detail and do weapons. It’s definitely a better starting place than it was, but still requires work after the initial coat to look great. I probably won’t use it on big stuff; only rank and file things.

**osjclatchford**

Well I may be new around here but I've seen a LOT of changes to the gw paint range over the last 20 years. now gw offer a new wonder product:

well you can colour me... unimpressed.

pure gimmic...

you could probably make your own by mixing shade and colour together to be honest! lOL
essentially, they're just fancy named glazes that dry flat. using the official contrast undercoat bases, is not vital imho and to be honest yields better results on things like Caucasian skin. e.g.

a base of 50/50 wraithbone and cadian fleshtone, roughly highligted/layered up with more wraithbone as a successive admix, then the guilliman flesh is much more preferable to guilliman flesh straight over wriathbone. (that is unless you want the flesh to look anemic! if you're umming and ahhing due to cost, save your money. instead invest in more time to perfect your current skill level. seriously, I'm cross at how gw has sold this as talent in a bottle, (not that I thought it would be as much, too much of an old soak to fall for media hype these days) but I feel sorry for the kids who will feel like they're doing something wrong when it dont work that way...

dont get me wrong, they'll have their uses:
alternative/more gentle shades for skin.
nice blending on capes/tabbards,
metal undercoat and contrast glaze for glowy power weapons/alternative enameled/anodized armour effect.
easy yellow for another example but, gak, we've all been using the white undercoat, successive shade/glaze method for yellow since before the old king died anyway, not to mention that inks and washes/shade have been allowing us to do the other stuff too so I dont really see the big deal here.
perhaps its just me. I dunno. put it this way, I can see me using the flesh and yellow one and thats it... but then Ive been at it for a while and have learnt other ways of doing stuff that yield just as good(if not better) results but may take longer. big deal... why is the world so impatient these days...

oh, don't even get me started on the apothacary "white" one :

that i thought to be an answer to my not painting white good issue. you can forget that!

**Arcanis161**

So basically, from this thread, the consensus is to try it a bit first to get used to it?

Good thing I have half a billion Guardsmen.

**Tyranid Horde**

Not too steep a learning curve really, if you've got a background in wash the feth out of everything, you'll see those skills help you a lot. I spent a few years not going beyond washing my models and it feels quite similar when using contrast. I know they're different from washes, but the principal is the same, don't let it pool, and wick away excess where you don't want it.

Overall I like them a lot and I've already started using them for furs and the like but I'll be sticking with my usual paints for the most part as I have nothing that would directly benefit from using them entirely

**Desubot**

Its another tool in a painters tool kit.

some tools get used more than others. some are easier to use and require little to no training. but its nice the have the option.

i give it a 3.

**Horst**

So far I really like them. Makes it quite a bit faster to get good looking cloth and skin done, which are always difficult for me. It can be used for armor as well, and looks better than a single color base coat, but worse than properly done base coat + shading + highlighting, but takes a fraction of the time.

So... seems perfect for rank and file troopers. The biggest problem is that it's not suitable for larger scale models or doing exact color matching on models that you want to paint traditionally, but if you have an airbrush this can be mitigated to a large extent because you just airbrush the paint on smoothly there to get the right uniform color, then paint over it as you would paint over a regular base coat.

I'd give them a 4/5, because they're very useful, but IMO too expensive.

**queen_annes_revenge**

osjclatchford wrote:

you could probably make your own by mixing shade and colour together to be honest!

Prove it. I'm willing to bet money the results won't be anywhere near the same.

**Tyranid Horde**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
osjclatchford wrote:

you could probably make your own by mixing shade and colour together to be honest!

Prove it. I'm willing to bet money the results won't be anywhere near the same.

I think Miniac (or some other youtuber) did it and it was definitely not the same.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Yeah there are multiple examples and demos on the news and rumours thread.

**timetowaste85**

Shrug. I like them. Let the haters hate. If they wanna spend hours trying (and failing) to make something that is the equal of contrast, they can pat themselves on the back. They’re the only ones (besides sycophantic leeches) who will. I’ll continue using the painting materials I like.

**fresus**

I've only used a couple of them, but saw many other people's attempts.
The results seem to vary a lot depending on the color and the mini. It's quite obvious that minis with lots of details would take contrast paints better, but there's a bit more to it. Leather pouches tend to look really good with one of the contrast browns (snakebite leather?), even though they're not hyper textured like a fur.
It also seems to work a lot better for darker minis, especially when actually using two different colors on top of each other, it avoids the washed-out or clowny look some contrast paints produce.

So for some armies/color combinations, it seems to work as intended. For others, not so much (but maybe people will come with better recipes as time goes on).
And when the mini looks good after applying contrast, then usually a quick highlighting makes it pop a lot more for not so much more work, which still follows the same philosophy of trading quality for speed, just without as much of a compromise.
Because of that, I would definitely rate is as an interesting and valuable product for speed painting, but still with some drawbacks.

I have yet to find other uses for the paint though. I've seen many painters put out amazing minis painted with contrast + something else. But they either come from amazing painters who are already able to produce insane results in no time with standard techniques, or more regular folks who did 2-3 highlights and some glazes, which in my opinion negates the whole point of the range (basecoating + washing isn't the most time consuming task if you're going to glaze many highlights…).
No one was able to show how contrasts were better than non-contrast for other uses.

**Horst**

The best use for Contrast that I've seen so far, that's not easily repeatable with other techniques, is metallic colors. If you want to do a metallic red / blue / green whatever, base coat your mini in Vallejo Silver or some other bright metal color, then paint over it with the appropriate contrast color. I've had great test results with this so far.

**fresus**

Horst wrote:
The best use for Contrast that I've seen so far, that's not easily repeatable with other techniques, is metallic colors. If you want to do a metallic red / blue / green whatever, base coat your mini in Vallejo Silver or some other bright metal color, then paint over it with the appropriate contrast color. I've had great test results with this so far.

Is it better than airbrushing a translucent color over the silver? That type of effect usually works best when the raised areas are very neat and shiny, so any amount of pooling will quickly ruin the effect. But it does simplify the shading process quite a lot I suppose.

**osjclatchford**

Guys, come on now, I said "you could PROBABLY mix shade and colour to make your own"

The key word here is probably. I've not nor shall I try this.

It was an attempt at humor for dramatic effect. Not to be taken literally. I mean who would actually do that?

**Horst**

fresus wrote:
Horst wrote:
The best use for Contrast that I've seen so far, that's not easily repeatable with other techniques, is metallic colors. If you want to do a metallic red / blue / green whatever, base coat your mini in Vallejo Silver or some other bright metal color, then paint over it with the appropriate contrast color. I've had great test results with this so far.

Is it better than airbrushing a translucent color over the silver? That type of effect usually works best when the raised areas are very neat and shiny, so any amount of pooling will quickly ruin the effect. But it does simplify the shading process quite a lot I suppose.

I think it depends on what you're trying to do. This allows you to paint on surfaces a solid silver color, then paint on the contrast... so if you only want to apply this to a small portion of the model, you can do that without having to use an airbrush. Very useful for trims or minor details.

**Quasistellar**

I gave it a 3 out of 5, and I'm a big supporter of the line.

They aren't perfect, and they aren't a miracle product. They're another tool. After trying a couple at home, they take a bit of practice. I do think I've almost found my Iron Hands scheme, though. Black Templar over P3 Pig Iron looks great. Now I just have to test it over the re-released Iron Hands metallic to compare.

**timetowaste85**

osjclatchford wrote:
Guys, come on now, I said "you could PROBABLY mix shade and colour to make your own"

The key word here is probably. I've not nor shall I try this.

It was an attempt at humor for dramatic effect. Not to be taken literally. I mean who would actually do that?

It’s because multiple people HAVE tried it, sounded smug about it, and generally showed off what amounted to be trash in comparison while sounding proud of themselves. So people have done what you’ve just suggested. And it generally sucks.

**John Prins**

I haven't gotten my hands on them yet, but my impression so far (gleaned from videos and such) is that it's a slightly improved paint-by-washes. You have the same issues with this paint as painting with washes - pooling, mottling on large flat areas, etcetera. In the hands of a skilled painter, not a problem. In the hands of a complete beginner, not a solution nor a good way to learn how to paint.

If you're just interested in getting some color on a miniature as quickly as possible - what GW calls 'battle ready' - then they do the job, but that's it. They might make a quality paint job slightly faster if you know what you're doing, and that can add up if you're painting 100+ miniatures, but that's true of any paint-by-wash technique.

**Argive**

Bring on the apothecary white on seer gray for my shadow specters!!!

Its not cheating.. Ive seen tutorials using sharpies to do trim.. Its weird but I dont think its cheating. As long as it gets colour on a model and looks greta who cares what tools you use ?

The only painting I would consider cheating is if a robot did it for me lol