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Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

He now costs 330 points but the re roll wound aura only applies to rolls of 1.

The hits now apply to all rolls and not just misses, same as auras like Cawl's.

Big nerf however. Calgar and a Lieutenant are by far the better choice as they fill mandatory HQ slots.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

Do you have a source? I saw the pics, and they seem pretty legit, but I'm interested in seeing where they come from.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






This is excellent news!

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Douglasville, GA

Pretty expensive, but rerolling all to-hit rolls is much better than just misses, since (if I recall correctly) you can only reroll misses before Modifiers are added. Makes it a lot easier to hit all those -2 or more units.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

Riiiight...like why wouldn't you use your best unit?

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

Riiiight...like why wouldn't you use your best unit?


Why I would usually agree with this, for something like a primarch I agree with xenomancer. A demi god should be a unit that is used sparely for special occasions or the climax of a large campaign. Having him in every game just feels wrong to me.
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit



Ottawa

Amazing news
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





This makes me perfectly ok with the changes.

I am relatively confident GW have this under control.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

Riiiight...like why wouldn't you use your best unit?


Why I would usually agree with this, for something like a primarch I agree with xenomancer. A demi god should be a unit that is used sparely for special occasions or the climax of a large campaign. Having him in every game just feels wrong to me.
Now it's calgar every game. Nothing changes. Best unit available is used. Except now it's not ultras that people are going to spam on you - it's gonna be iron hands. Maybe we should nerf infantry squads cause almost every imperial list includes them (they actually should). I still think Ultras can get the job done - their special tactical doctrine combined with ignoring penalties for moving and shooting will be a very good chance of pace for me. This gman nerf could have been a little less harsh though. I am fine with losing the wounds aura but the whole aura should have been made 12 " so there is an actual reason to bring him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 01:41:20


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





One thing to remeber is Gulliman is, whatever else, a complete beast up close. and now Ultrmarines are going to be enchouraged to run much more mobile battlelines. Gulliman will, more reliably see close combat

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

 Xenomancers wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

Riiiight...like why wouldn't you use your best unit?


Why I would usually agree with this, for something like a primarch I agree with xenomancer. A demi god should be a unit that is used sparely for special occasions or the climax of a large campaign. Having him in every game just feels wrong to me.
Now it's calgar every game. Nothing changes. Best unit available is used. Except now it's not ultras that people are going to spam on you - it's gonna be iron hands. Maybe we should nerf infantry squads cause almost every imperial list includes them (they actually should). I still think Ultras can get the job done - their special tactical doctrine combined with ignoring penalties for moving and shooting will be a very good chance of pace for me. This gman nerf could have been a little less harsh though. I am fine with losing the wounds aura but the whole aura should have been made 12 " so there is an actual reason to bring him.


Could be an Aura increase Warlord Trait for UM that Guilliman gets.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

 Xenomancers wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

Riiiight...like why wouldn't you use your best unit?


Why I would usually agree with this, for something like a primarch I agree with xenomancer. A demi god should be a unit that is used sparely for special occasions or the climax of a large campaign. Having him in every game just feels wrong to me.
Now it's calgar every game. Nothing changes. Best unit available is used. Except now it's not ultras that people are going to spam on you - it's gonna be iron hands. Maybe we should nerf infantry squads cause almost every imperial list includes them (they actually should). I still think Ultras can get the job done - their special tactical doctrine combined with ignoring penalties for moving and shooting will be a very good chance of pace for me. This gman nerf could have been a little less harsh though. I am fine with losing the wounds aura but the whole aura should have been made 12 " so there is an actual reason to bring him.

Honestly I just want to see less named characters in lists and more generic ones. I agree infantry squads pop up way too much because the allied rules are busted, but I'd be saying the same thing if Marneus or Sicarius or whoever showed up in every single list. I just don't like every game being with a named character because it just kind of cheapens the experience.

As for guilleman specifically, hopefully being toned down will vary up the lists we see. I should've been more specific there. I don't want to see Smurfs thrown under the bus (much) but I would like to see a list that isn't just clumping as much stuff within 6" of guilleman as possible. Especially if it lets guilleman have a specific role that encourages him to lead from the front and bust some heads. It felt really weird to see him just sitting back some games as a reroll aura.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 MrMoustaffa wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now

Riiiight...like why wouldn't you use your best unit?


Why I would usually agree with this, for something like a primarch I agree with xenomancer. A demi god should be a unit that is used sparely for special occasions or the climax of a large campaign. Having him in every game just feels wrong to me.
Now it's calgar every game. Nothing changes. Best unit available is used. Except now it's not ultras that people are going to spam on you - it's gonna be iron hands. Maybe we should nerf infantry squads cause almost every imperial list includes them (they actually should). I still think Ultras can get the job done - their special tactical doctrine combined with ignoring penalties for moving and shooting will be a very good chance of pace for me. This gman nerf could have been a little less harsh though. I am fine with losing the wounds aura but the whole aura should have been made 12 " so there is an actual reason to bring him.

Honestly I just want to see less named characters in lists and more generic ones. I agree infantry squads pop up way too much because the allied rules are busted, but I'd be saying the same thing if Marneus or Sicarius or whoever showed up in every single list. I just don't like every game being with a named character because it just kind of cheapens the experience.

As for guilleman specifically, hopefully being toned down will vary up the lists we see. I should've been more specific there. I don't want to see Smurfs thrown under the bus (much) but I would like to see a list that isn't just clumping as much stuff within 6" of guilleman as possible. Especially if it lets guilleman have a specific role that encourages him to lead from the front and bust some heads. It felt really weird to see him just sitting back some games as a reroll aura.
As long as a reroll all hits aura exists. The tactics will remain roughly the same. At least ultras will be the more mobile of the marine breeds with movement penalties being ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
One thing to remeber is Gulliman is, whatever else, a complete beast up close. and now Ultrmarines are going to be enchouraged to run much more mobile battlelines. Gulliman will, more reliably see close combat
Yeah hes still a beast. 7 attacks now too. Gonna be hard to justify his cost - esp if all CM get reroll all hit not fail hits auras. Bringing Gman will mean 1 less repulsor in your list and with him not doing anytthing special anymore that is gonna be a tough pill to swallow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 02:18:51


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




If this is true then this time i have to give it to GW, they really hit the right spots.

Nerfed the 2 worst offenders in the marines lists (Raven guard trait and Gman), and powered up everything else. Now i can see marine lists being strong, fluffy and reasonably balanced.

With oldGman the amount of ultra bolters around would have been a mess, like this instead you are no longer rewarded for shooting the wrong weapon at the wrong target and you will need to create a well rounded force capable of capitalizing on all 3 doctrines.

Well done.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Spoletta wrote:


With oldGman the amount of ultra bolters around would have been a mess, like this instead you are no longer rewarded for shooting the wrong weapon at the wrong target and you will need to create a well rounded force capable of capitalizing on all 3 doctrines.

Well done.


Precisely this.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome, maybe we'll see Ultramarines not running him every friggin game now


I wasn't usually running him now, I was already running Calgar/LT

Heck, this might make me start running him with Telion and Tiggy or something.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

His cost is actually 350***

I actually think he's too expensive now. If he was a HQ and not a LoW I'd be more supportive.

The problem is you can get the same auras for cheaper. And yes, he is good in combat however he's also a monster that can't ride in a vehicle, get around fast or deploy outside of normal restrictions.

He does get Chapter Tactics and Angels of Death which is a slight improvement, and the Hand of Dominion is now Damage 4.

Yes, some niche' uses with Knights aren't affected but he's less useful with Astartes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 07:57:17


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Breton wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
His cost is actually 350.

I actually think he's too expensive now. If he was a HQ and not a LoW I'd be more supportive.

The problem is you can get the same auras for cheaper. And yes, he is good in combat however he's also a monster that can't ride in a vehicle, get around fast or deploy outside of normal restrictions.

Yes, some niche' uses with Knights aren't affected but he's less useful with Astartes.


You're not getting a 12" aura for cheaper. 12 inch radius is 450 square inches or so. Even if you're not soup'ing a 6 inch radius is 113 square inches or so, you need 3 captains to cover the same area, Plus Lieutenants. Plus base size is going to add even more.


From the other thread.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




His reroll 1's to hit is 12 his actual all hits and wounds of 1 in only 6"
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Ice_can wrote:
His reroll 1's to hit is 12 his actual all hits and wounds of 1 in only 6"


So? The aura is 1's to hit for Captains. I'm comparing like to like. AND the Lieutenant. The fact that you get a bonus of all misses within 6" is just that.. a bonus. If I had the price of a generic Chapter Master - that may still be limited to one per Army - I doubt that one Chapter Master and two Captains will be less than 3 Captains - Plus the Lieutenant. You're not suggesting that are you?

Are you disputing the math? Or are you hyper-focused on only the 6 inch bubble to the point of pretending the 12" bubble doesn't exist? We haven't even gotten to the other parts of his aura like the Advance and Charge rolls.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Honestly I just want to see less named characters in lists and more generic ones.


Same.

Personally, I find it depressing that generic characters have had their options stripped to the bone, yet special characters get no end of extra abilities, rules, wargear etc.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Breton wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
His reroll 1's to hit is 12 his actual all hits and wounds of 1 in only 6"


So? The aura is 1's to hit for Captains. I'm comparing like to like. AND the Lieutenant. The fact that you get a bonus of all misses within 6" is just that.. a bonus. If I had the price of a generic Chapter Master - that may still be limited to one per Army - I doubt that one Chapter Master and two Captains will be less than 3 Captains - Plus the Lieutenant. You're not suggesting that are you?

Are you disputing the math? Or are you hyper-focused on only the 6 inch bubble to the point of pretending the 12" bubble doesn't exist? We haven't even gotten to the other parts of his aura like the Advance and Charge rolls.

No i was just trying to clarify that he doesn't suddenly have a 12 inch reroll all hits and wounds rolls of 1 aura which is what your post made it sound like.

He rerolls 1 to hit at 12 inches and adds to advance or charge moves.

His actual useful to Ultramarines is the 6 inches of all hits the wounds is now the same as an LT.

It's a good change and I'm happy he is way cheaper as actually having him kick ass is semi viable, but really he lost a lot of his auto include status which is good.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Ice_can wrote:

No i was just trying to clarify that he doesn't suddenly have a 12 inch reroll all hits and wounds rolls of 1 aura which is what your post made it sound like.



I made it sound like he suddenly had a 12 inch reroll all hits and wounds rolls of 1 by comparing his aura to... Captains?

And again, Ultramarines are also IMPERIUM so his use to Ultramarines is ALSO 12". I'm not going to refuse to reroll 1's at 11 inches because I'm mad it's not all hits.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Breton wrote:
Ice_can wrote:

No i was just trying to clarify that he doesn't suddenly have a 12 inch reroll all hits and wounds rolls of 1 aura which is what your post made it sound like.



I made it sound like he suddenly had a 12 inch reroll all hits and wounds rolls of 1 by comparing his aura to... Captains?

And again, Ultramarines are also IMPERIUM so his use to Ultramarines is ALSO 12". I'm not going to refuse to reroll 1's at 11 inches because I'm mad it's not all hits.

Or you design your own chapter and can give everyone reroll hits of 1 for rangwd weapons as part of their chapter tactic.
If you don't want to see him on the table fine but you seem overly invested in this.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Ice_can wrote:

Or you design your own chapter and can give everyone reroll hits of 1 for rangwd weapons as part of their chapter tactic.
If you don't want to see him on the table fine but you seem overly invested in this.


What does correcting an incorrect statement about his aura vs how much it costs to get the equivalent have to do with wanting or not wanting him on the table? For that matter, wouldn't proving his area CAN'T be gotten cheaper make people MORE likely to put him on the table?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




1) Re-roll hits is better, wounds is worse.
2) I hope the Chapter Master Stratagem gets re-roll hit rolls rather than failed...
3) Personally I don't think this is is nerf, it is actually a buff. Trading failed re-roll wounds for 50 less points +1 D on one weapon.
Not to mention other options revealed in the book. If some main units or Wargear goes down in price as well this only gets better.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/10 11:06:16


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

~
HoundsofDemos wrote:
should be a unit that is used sparely for special occasions
~

Yeah, we call that "Everytime we get together to play".




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
[Honestly I just want to see less named characters in lists and more generic ones. I agree infantry squads pop up way too much because the allied rules are busted, but I'd be saying the same thing if Marneus or Sicarius or whoever showed up in every single list. I just don't like every game being with a named character because it just kind of cheapens the experience.


Well, you can do something about that.
1) Discuss the types of games you want to play with your opponent.
2) Decline games against stuff you don't enjoy playing against/aren't in the mood to face again for the xxx time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 11:29:01


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Indeed, Guilliman has deserved it.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






I'm confused how anyone can say gman deserved it. Look at space marine WR as a whole. It is terrible. If anything he deserved buffs. At least the army is getting buffed which is good. I'm still left wondering how marines are going to kill vehicals with all these damn...bolt guns. Just look at DW winning nothing and probably having superior abilities to buffed marines vs infantry already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:


With oldGman the amount of ultra bolters around would have been a mess, like this instead you are no longer rewarded for shooting the wrong weapon at the wrong target and you will need to create a well rounded force capable of capitalizing on all 3 doctrines.

Well done.


Precisely this.
Blame invo saves making the right weapons actually the wrong weapon.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/11 19:34:44


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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