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Per the subject, are Thunderwolves just failed Marine applicants or Marines who went a little too feral? Prospero Burns sure makes it sound like they're Marines who fell hard to the Canis Helix issue.

It is never stated outright what they are. Magnus is pretty cryptic with his "There are no wolves on Fenris" line. One theory is that the early settlers of Fenris tinkered with their DNA, adding canine attributes to help them survive the harsh environment. Some experiments went wrong with the test subjects escapinf to establish the wolf populations we see today. This in turn might explain why the Wolves have struggled to recruit non-Fenrisian aspirants, their DNA is less compatible with the SW geneseed (although this seems to have been overcome in Primaris Marines).

Ultimately we have no been given enough info to know anything for sure. All we have are hints and clues. Unless or until GW decide to expand on that, ideas are prettymuch just fanfic.

 Karhedron wrote:
It is never stated outright what they are. Magnus is pretty cryptic with his "There are no wolves on Fenris" line. One theory is that the early settlers of Fenris tinkered with their DNA, adding canine attributes to help them survive the harsh environment. Some experiments went wrong with the test subjects escapinf to establish the wolf populations we see today. This in turn might explain why the Wolves have struggled to recruit non-Fenrisian aspirants, their DNA is less compatible with the SW geneseed (although this seems to have been overcome in Primaris Marines).

Ultimately we have no been given enough info to know anything for sure. All we have are hints and clues. Unless or until GW decide to expand on that, ideas are prettymuch just fanfic.

Pretty much this, it is ambiguous.
I personally was under the impression that:
Fenrisian wolf = normal wolf
Thunder Wolf = human DNA in the mix

It makes 0 sense for fenrisian wolves to be people. It requires the entire ecosystem of fenris (with its many species of wolves) to have appeared holas bolas when humans decided that turning into wolves was a good idea.

Thunder wolves are also 10x the mass of a space marine, which makes it ridiculous.


There are trolls on fenris which could be degenerate wulfen.

keep in mind that Fenris has been occupied for tnes of thousands of years that's a long time for it's eco csystem to have developed inresponse to human gene engineering

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind that Fenris has been occupied for tnes of thousands of years that's a long time for it's eco csystem to have developed inresponse to human gene engineering

It's really not. And The wolves of fenris are a large part of the ecosystem - there are many species at different sizes that fill different niches including being prey for larger species. They can't just be inserted into the system.

This is just Dan abnett "omegon-ing" more 40k background

Hellebore wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind that Fenris has been occupied for tnes of thousands of years that's a long time for it's eco csystem to have developed inresponse to human gene engineering

It's really not. And The wolves of fenris are a large part of the ecosystem - there are many species at different sizes that fill different niches including being prey for larger species. They can't just be inserted into the system.

This is just Dan abnett "omegon-ing" more 40k background

Horus Heresy book 7 makes it pretty clear that the ecosystem of Fenris is not a natural thing.

Per the actual subject Thunderwolves are 100% nothing to do with the Space Wolves and Wulfen.

pm713 wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind that Fenris has been occupied for tnes of thousands of years that's a long time for it's eco csystem to have developed inresponse to human gene engineering

It's really not. And The wolves of fenris are a large part of the ecosystem - there are many species at different sizes that fill different niches including being prey for larger species. They can't just be inserted into the system.

This is just Dan abnett "omegon-ing" more 40k background

Horus Heresy book 7 makes it pretty clear that the ecosystem of Fenris is not a natural thing.

Per the actual subject Thunderwolves are 100% nothing to do with the Space Wolves and Wulfen.

Are you just saying that or do you have actual evidence? It's very strongly implied that one of the giant wolves prowling around in Prospero Burns is one of the failed Marine recruits the main character encounters at the beginning of the book.

 Kriswall wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind that Fenris has been occupied for tnes of thousands of years that's a long time for it's eco csystem to have developed inresponse to human gene engineering

It's really not. And The wolves of fenris are a large part of the ecosystem - there are many species at different sizes that fill different niches including being prey for larger species. They can't just be inserted into the system.

This is just Dan abnett "omegon-ing" more 40k background

Horus Heresy book 7 makes it pretty clear that the ecosystem of Fenris is not a natural thing.

Per the actual subject Thunderwolves are 100% nothing to do with the Space Wolves and Wulfen.

Are you just saying that or do you have actual evidence? It's very strongly implied that one of the giant wolves prowling around in Prospero Burns is one of the failed Marine recruits the main character encounters at the beginning of the book.

When Leman Russ lands on Fenris he's adopted by a pack of Thunderwolves. Therefore as they predate Russ they also predate the Space Wolves so cannot be produced by Space Wolves mutating.

That would leave the Blackmane Wolf as your main suspect.
It is notably bigger than the average Fenrisian wolf.
It's rare.
It hates company.
Is not yet documented as being on Fenris before the arrival of Russ.

That said we already know what the second stage of the Wulfen is.
Bran Redmaw.

It won't happen but I like to imagine GW leans hard into wulfen, wolves, and werewolves for SW instead of primaris marines to represent the Wolftime coming close. Honestly I love how seriously GW plays SW as Vikings, but in space trope and Wolves wolves wolves action.

Imagine Werewolf characters like Bran Redmaw. Wulfen blood claws (replacing current Blood claws, makes it easier to decide between CC wulfen or bolter/special Grey hunters). Blackmane Wolf as a Monster character. Characters and Thunderwolves having the option to take 1 or 2 ferisian wolves for extra wounds.

I just really like how different they are to other chapters.

... yeah no thanks. the wolf thing is waaay over done, I wish they'd play up the Space Viking aspect more

Explains the way that the wolves of Fenris look more like baboons than Terran wolves.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
It won't happen but I like to imagine GW leans hard into wulfen, wolves, and werewolves for SW instead of primaris marines to represent the Wolftime coming close. Honestly I love how seriously GW plays SW as Vikings, but in space trope and Wolves wolves wolves action.

Imagine Werewolf characters like Bran Redmaw. Wulfen blood claws (replacing current Blood claws, makes it easier to decide between CC wulfen or bolter/special Grey hunters). Blackmane Wolf as a Monster character. Characters and Thunderwolves having the option to take 1 or 2 ferisian wolves for extra wounds.

I just really like how different they are to other chapters.

Hey, I don't go around putting your nightmares on the Internet!

Jimbobbyish wrote:
It won't happen but I like to imagine GW leans hard into wulfen, wolves, and werewolves for SW instead of primaris marines to represent the Wolftime coming close. Honestly I love how seriously GW plays SW as Vikings, but in space trope and Wolves wolves wolves action.

Imagine Werewolf characters like Bran Redmaw. Wulfen blood claws (replacing current Blood claws, makes it easier to decide between CC wulfen or bolter/special Grey hunters). Blackmane Wolf as a Monster character. Characters and Thunderwolves having the option to take 1 or 2 ferisian wolves for extra wounds.

I just really like how different they are to other chapters.

You speak of 7th edition.
Ahh, the good old days.

Thunder wolves are more the size of a rhino or light armoured vehicles.

If they are a mutation it's a much larger one than wulfen by several factors. There fur is like metal and much bigger than any other wolfish beings on the planet.

Fenris also has trolls, Kraken's, and a variety of other critters that are definitely not entirely normal. The dark age of tech did do a lot of tweaking of DNA though so who knows what thousands of years will do to the original templates.

The answer is safely unconfirmed.

The Emperor states that Fenris was an experiment from the Dark Age of technology to bring Terran myths to life.

Sound like the whole planet was an extreme theme-park.

 Ishagu wrote:
The Emperor states that Fenris was an experiment from the Dark Age of technology to bring Terran myths to life.

Sound like the whole planet was an extreme theme-park.

Dang. Though the Kraken's are less sure. They are suspected to be a long lost cut off Tyranid type species or so. Not really known how they got there, how long just there massive beasties, can level islands and teeth are hard as adamantium.

 Ishagu wrote:
The Emperor states that Fenris was an experiment from the Dark Age of technology to bring Terran myths to life.

Sound like the whole planet was an extreme theme-park.

Citation?

 jhe90 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
The Emperor states that Fenris was an experiment from the Dark Age of technology to bring Terran myths to life.

Sound like the whole planet was an extreme theme-park.

Dang. Though the Kraken's are less sure. They are suspected to be a long lost cut off Tyranid type species or so. Not really known how they got there, how long just there massive beasties, can level islands and teeth are hard as adamantium.

I’ve only read that as a fan theory, is there legit GW story about it?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
The Emperor states that Fenris was an experiment from the Dark Age of technology to bring Terran myths to life.

Sound like the whole planet was an extreme theme-park.

Dang. Though the Kraken's are less sure. They are suspected to be a long lost cut off Tyranid type species or so. Not really known how they got there, how long just there massive beasties, can level islands and teeth are hard as adamantium.

I’ve only read that as a fan theory, is there legit GW story about it?

Apparently it's in the 4th ed Nid codex.

Appreciate it PM!

Imagine Werewolf characters like Bran Redmaw. Wulfen blood claws (replacing current Blood claws, makes it easier to decide between CC wulfen or bolter/special Grey hunters). Blackmane Wolf as a Monster character. Characters and Thunderwolves having the option to take 1 or 2 ferisian wolves for extra wounds.

I really wish the whole wolf wolf mcwolfy wolf thing would just die. Space Wolves were much better as just Space Marines made from Vikings. The over the top wolfy crap just makes them caricatures and a bad joke.

This is just Dan abnett "omegon-ing" more 40k background

This. While I generally like his books, he needs a better editor. Because he is always trying to put his own twist on everything. His twists are like M. Night Shyamalan twists. The first one was cool, everything after that was garbage, and now they are live action avatar bad.

In general its why I never want to see Russ return. If done correctly it would be awesome. But there is enough of a chance he will be just a bigger wolfy mcwulfen joke. I'd rather he stay missing than that.

I know retcons exist but Russ coming back means an end for the Space Mutts.
Maybe the end of Wolfing everything...
Much as I give Adeptus Astartes, Drukhari and Aeldari gak over being nothing but copyright names I'd like to see the Space Wolves become Vlka Fenryka.
Wolf Lord - Jarl
Wolf Guard Pack Leader - Huskjarl
Wolf Guard units - Varagyr
Storm Wolf becomes Storm Claw
Wolf Claws have the same statline as Frost Claws so just call them Frost Claws.
That would probably be enough to keep me happy.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I know retcons exist but Russ coming back means an end for the Space Mutts.
Maybe the end of Wolfing everything...
Much as I give Adeptus Astartes, Drukhari and Aeldari gak over being nothing but copyright names I'd like to see the Space Wolves become Vlka Fenryka.
Wolf Lord - Jarl
Wolf Guard Pack Leader - Huskjarl
Wolf Guard units - Varagyr
Storm Wolf becomes Storm Claw
Wolf Claws have the same statline as Frost Claws so just call them Frost Claws.
That would probably be enough to keep me happy.

That would be amazing. I'd love to see them play up the Space Viking theme and play down the Space Werewolf theme.

If they blew up the entirety of SW fluff and rebooted it from scratch, I can't say I'd miss much, at least not much made in the last...5 editions. It's like GW can't decide what they want SW's to be, so they try to stick them with every possible trope, and they end up looking like a 12 year old's bad internet fanfic, like someone trying to cram Wolverine, Thor, Spawn, Deadpool and Batman all into the same character.

There's so much cool factor potential...but the execution has been awful.

There's a fair bit of 40k fluff like that though, and at least they're not shy about ret-cons. Now, if only they'd re-do the Tyranids...

 Vaktathi wrote:
If they blew up the entirety of SW fluff and rebooted it from scratch, I can't say I'd miss much, at least not much made in the last...5 editions. It's like GW can't decide what they want SW's to be, so they try to stick them with every possible trope, and they end up looking like a 12 year old's bad internet fanfic, like someone trying to cram Wolverine, Thor, Spawn, Deadpool and Batman all into the same character.

There's so much cool factor potential...but the execution has been awful.

An odd bright side to GW's atrocious treatment is it has left me feeling oddly motivated to think of better lore like an explanation for the whole spirit of Fenris protects Rune Priests thing.

Maybe GW should just get fans to write lore more....

 Kriswall wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I know retcons exist but Russ coming back means an end for the Space Mutts.
Maybe the end of Wolfing everything...
Much as I give Adeptus Astartes, Drukhari and Aeldari gak over being nothing but copyright names I'd like to see the Space Wolves become Vlka Fenryka.
Wolf Lord - Jarl
Wolf Guard Pack Leader - Huskjarl
Wolf Guard units - Varagyr
Storm Wolf becomes Storm Claw
Wolf Claws have the same statline as Frost Claws so just call them Frost Claws.
That would probably be enough to keep me happy.

That would be amazing. I'd love to see them play up the Space Viking theme and play down the Space Werewolf theme.

I’d be satisfied if they just got rid of the word “Wolf” from every unit name. I don’t mind the whole Werewolf deal, Thunderwolf Cavalry or even Santa’s sleigh but I wish they were more like the Blood Angels who are Vampires obsessed with blood and the colour red rather than being Vampires.