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Now there's something to look at - finally!

I'll be the one to ask the stupid question: It appears that the silhouttes used in the pledge levels guide were pulled from these two pieces of concet art....

So.....why weren't these included from the outset?

Okay, I guess I'll be the one to give the stupid answer.

Those images WERE included from the outset. So the question is, how did you miss them?

Actually the bigger question to ask about those two images is, are they in any way reflective of what you are going to receive or are they just stock art?

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Okay, I guess I'll be the one to give the stupid answer.

Those images WERE included from the outset. So the question is, how did you miss them?

Huh. I don't know then.....how did I miss them..... were they always at the top? If they were behind the great wall of text, there's a very good chance I stopped reading.

Yeup, those images have always been there....

I don't recall seeing them either...

Anyway, I like them!

Now I need to see what the actual models based off them look like before I can commit...

Actually they were right at the beginning of the text, back then.

Admittedly, they do say "Early Concept Art" on them, so the end results may differ significantly, based on the feedback they have gotten. Particularly when it comes to drones, since there has been a lot of ideas about them on the forums. So one wouldn't really base a decision to buy the miniatures based on that early concept art.

But it does in some way indicate what could be in issue, in that several people had heard about and discussed the kickstarter campaign, but never went to the kickstarter page. So the people trying to promote the kickstarter in this and other forums might need to post and talk about more of the stuff from the kickstarter, rather than assuming that people will go check it out.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
It's also important to note that "flat funding" for most campaigns means a generally lower (not low) baseline, that ticks up at the end. Kingdom Death had a long valley of pledges... but a valley there meant about $12k per day. BtGoA already has multiple days with single digit backer totals and sub 1k GBP pledges. Remember also, the vast majority of projects of the "big KS's" were funded in days, if not hours. BtGoA needs that last minute surge to be huge just to make their funding minimum.

Another problem, I believe, is the perception of failure or the likelihood of failing to meet the funding goal. People are less likely to back the project if they think it's irrelevant to do so. It's a sinking ship mentality.

Momentum will continue to drive the kickstarter in whatever direction it's going without action from Dark Space Corp.

 Rolt wrote:
Actually the bigger question to ask about those two images is, are they in any way reflective of what you are going to receive or are they just stock art?

I'd seen those images also and remember reading or being led to believe that they were not indicative of the models and, in fact, not related to the game and were just samples (stock art) from their artists.

Who knows what is the case then?

Another example of Not So Clear stuff on this one.

Looks like they need a solid Project Manager?

It is early concept work for Beyond the Gates of Antares. It is pretty clear, because it says right on the images "Early Concept work". They are concepts, which are not final. I can understand why someone would not pledge for the miniatures based on early concept art that could change significantly. But that doesn't make it confusing.

One more.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
It is early concept work for Beyond the Gates of Antares. It is pretty clear, because it says right on the images "Early Concept work". They are concepts, which are not final. I can understand why someone would not pledge for the miniatures based on early concept art that could change significantly. But that doesn't make it confusing.

How's this for confusing then: what is it concept art of?

This is the problem with defensively saying "it's all there, why haven't you looked?" First, the job of advertising is to make me want it without having to look. Second, the things being presented as "concept art" look distinctly more like interior art, that is, the art that should be inside of the rulebooks, not the traditional concept art for miniatures we are used to seeing... well, everywhere.

Take the armored figure art: is that a war-drone, an armored person, an alien, something from a month ago, a year ago, something from the dark age of Beyond, a current combatant...?

Like Through the Breach, Dark Space seems dead set on selling people by giving them insight into things that we presume will be there (like quality mechanics), while refusing to satisfy the need for information about the most frequently asked question of any miniature game: what do the miniatures look like?

 zedmeister wrote:


However, I still can be convinced and my canceled pledge reversed - they really need to pull something huge out of the hat to get this going or enthusiasm will wain and despair will set in...

You realise though that your money won't be wasted, and will be yours if this project isn't funded?

They are starting to make some real inroads in terms of the kind of game world GoA will inhabit, and the mechanics used in that game. Anyone who has spent any time on the development forums will be aware of this, but sadly this hasn't been conveyed (perhaps that is impossible?) onto the KS page. Now, we've already seen that this alone (the player-input method) isn't enough by itself to reach that 300k - but we also know that more concepts and greens are on the way. Hopefully those will be fancy enough to convince people who are still humming and harring about pledging - of whom I'm sure there are a lot!

Final guy looks to me like someone in an environment suit? As to what is inside? Could be any number of post-humans, quite possibly something with 4 anuses

I'll admit: If I saw those ILLUSTRATIONS I wouldn't have guessed they were model concept art. They don't look like traditional concept art because, like Buzz said, those look like bits of illustrative interior art.

I guess when I think of concept art I think of a early vector model or sketch of the model itself like this:



But I guess expectations differ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also... I for one don't really want to have any design input. I like the notion of a living world where "live" battles affect the next things that come out, but man....those next things should be determined by the developers, not the people.

 Pacific wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:


However, I still can be convinced and my canceled pledge reversed - they really need to pull something huge out of the hat to get this going or enthusiasm will wain and despair will set in...

You realise though that your money won't be wasted, and will be yours if this project isn't funded?

They are starting to make some real inroads in terms of the kind of game world GoA will inhabit, and the mechanics used in that game. Anyone who has spent any time on the development forums will be aware of this, but sadly this hasn't been conveyed (perhaps that is impossible?) onto the KS page. Now, we've already seen that this alone (the player-input method) isn't enough by itself to reach that 300k - but we also know that more concepts and greens are on the way. Hopefully those will be fancy enough to convince people who are still humming and harring about pledging - of whom I'm sure there are a lot!

Final guy looks to me like someone in an environment suit? As to what is inside? Could be any number of post-humans, quite possibly something with 4 anuses

One of the biggest problems is right here: the idea that you can sell a miniature game system on the strength of the rules. Even worse, thinking that giving people insight into the rules is the same as giving them value.

This is exactly the same conversation that was had during the run of Through the Breach, but there at least they were a) above their minimum funding, and b) an RPG.

Even there, just talking about what was going to be in it wasn't enough to generate excitement, which is logical because anytime a product is being put out by an established name, you presume they are good at what they are known to be good at. Rick Priestly telling us about how good the rules are going to be that are coming from the legendary Rick Priestly is just telling you things that are redundant.

I agree that is the problem. At this point, I think all the people who are mostly interested in rules and background of the game have heard about the game and have already pledged. Or they aren't going to. Now they need to draw in the probably much larger number of people who are mostly interested in the miniatures. To do that, they are going to need more visuals. Not necessarily finished sculpts, but at least detailed design drawings of what the miniatures will look like.

I was thinking how this would work if you tried it with a restaurant:

KS: So, I've got this killer steak I want to sell you.

Me: Awesome! I love steak! Tell me about it.

KS: Well it's a Bobby Flay original, so you know it's going to be good!

Me: I've been to one of his restaurants. The food sure was good! I'm interested. Tell me more!

KS: It's a Bobby Flay Steak.

Me: Right, I get that. What type of beef will it be, and how big is it?

KS: Well, it's A Bobby Flay steak. It'll probably be between 10-20 ounces. How big do YOU think it should be?

Me: I don't know... What type of beef is it? And how much is it?

KS Well, it's a Bobby Flay steak, so It'll be about $50 bucks.

Me: Okay, well I've had Bobby Flay's food before, and I've had steak for around $50 bucks. But is it Kobe, Wagyu, Angus, what? And you still haven't told me the size.

KS: Well, thats because we want you to tell us how big it should be and what type of beef it is.

Me: Ugh....well, I Like both Angus and Wagyu, and for $50 bucks, It should probably be around 16 ounces. Is it dry aged or wet aged?

KS: What do YOU think this Bobby Flay steak should be?

Me: Ugh...Shouldn't Bobby Flay have a preferred aging method?

KS: He does, but he wants your input.

Me: Well which is his preference?

KS: He wants to know what YOUR preference is before he decided. But remember, it's a Bobby Flay steak.

Me: I ..... I don't care. Just let me order this steak, Med rare.

KS: Of course sir. Here's your ticket. If you'd like to come back in 6 months, we'll have your steak ready using your input.

Me: What... no... feth it..I'm going to go home and make my own steak.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
You call it snobbery, I call it being realistic and let´s be honest, quite some folks on DakkaDakka are not very realistic. Give them a well run company and they would run it into the ground within a month.

And it is better to only have those people on board that don´t leave the boat when it is not sunshine than having to try to please every whim of some fine-weather-people.

Sorry, for being direct and honest, but worked quite well for me and my surrounding for the last 38 years, so why should I change.

When you decide to champion a cause, you are linked with that cause, even if you are truly unrelated, so, some thought on how you represent yourself, would not be bad, because how you represent yourself will be linked on how the cause you have picked up, food for thought here.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The images were there from the start, not sure why or how people missed it, or how this will change the view people have towards this kickstarter.

 cincydooley wrote:
I was thinking how this would work if you tried it with a restaurant:

KS: So, I've got this killer steak I want to sell you.

etc...

Brilliant!

 Commander Cain wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I was thinking how this would work if you tried it with a restaurant:

KS: So, I've got this killer steak I want to sell you.

etc...

Brilliant!

Agreed, and exhalted.

cincydooley wrote: Big Stuff.

Much of that isn't any different from any other Kickstarter, lets not forget that here, particularly the 6 month wait for the steak. The Sedition Wars KS ended last June. I got my box last week. The Ogre KS ended last may. I'll get my box this May if I'm lucky.

Aside from that, there are some people who *would* like input on all those things, or at least some of them.

I'm sorry, you're right. I forgot the last part:

Me: Ugh....can you at least show me what this steak is going to look like so I can really whet my appetite?

KS: Well of course sir! This Bobby Flay steak will probably look something like this:

Given the concepts we've got so far, I'd think something like this would be more appropriate

Was that an obscure joke based on the (ignored) copyright warning?

No, it just happened to be the first pic I pulled off Google Image search

I dunno. They're giving us illustrations that may or may not look like the minis. I gave you an illustration of a steak. Seems appropriately analogous to me.

Hrm, one steak is a relatively cartoony abstract, the other is a relatively detailed picture, which may be subject to change, but gives a relatively good picture of what they're aiming for, which is what we've been given in the artwork presented.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hrm, one steak is a relatively cartoony abstract, the other isa relatively detailed picture, which may be subject to change, but gives a relatively good picture of what they're aiming for, which is what we've been given in the artwork presented.

Uhhhh.... "relatively good picture" is not exactly the term I would use... "cartoony abstract", seems a little closer...