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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 02:42:19
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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NecronLord3 wrote:Zandrehk can give powers to the Tran. C'tan . Tank hunters, and Hit and run being the most useful. Also counter attack and Stealth(rarely useful). Also Zandrehk can take a similar list of powers away from an opposing unit. It's the only buff a C'tan is capable of getting.
One way to lose the game with the Tranny is for it to get tarpitted by some unit that it can't destroy promptly, like an invisible unit or a rerollable invul save unit. Zandrekh buffing the Tranny with Hit and Run keeps that from happening. Any other Zandrekh buff is gravy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, not sure if Tranny is an auto-include. It's a bit susceptible to grav spam since grav circumvents the 9 toughness and drop pod melta spam is also decently potent. Grav guns seem to be a solid way to fight GMC and LOW in general. Wouldn't be that big of a deal if everyone and their sister didn't play Space Marines.
Keep in mind that point-wise you have to compare Tranny to 3x bargeLord. 3 x bargeLord seems overall better. Differing opinions?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/16 04:55:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 06:16:50
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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I know what Zahndrekh does, I'm just not sure it's worth including him/for him to give is abilities to the T.C'tan rather than something else in the army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 06:47:08
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
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Seismic Assault gets infinitely better when you have Tank Hunter :O
That is a combo I am surely going to play this Apocalypse! Thanks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 11:22:35
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Regular Dakkanaut
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As a comment to the previous discussion, here's a rather silly list:
Imotekh + Chrono-cryptek
Zahndrekh
5 Warriors
5 Warriors
Tomb Blade
Tomb Blade
Tomb Blade
Trans C'tan (Stride, Withering, Seismic)
1500 points
Zahndrekh for the reasons mentioned above, imotekh mostly to have a 75% chance of getting the first turn in normal circumstances.
I'd never play this crap, but it's an amusing idea.
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Number = Legion
Name = Death |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 12:08:05
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Freaky Flayed One
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skoffs wrote:I know what Zahndrekh does, I'm just not sure it's worth including him/for him to give is abilities to the T.C'tan rather than something else in the army.
Let's say the C'Tan has 2 x Seismic Assault powers. Without tank hunters you would expect about 6 hull points vs AV 14 armor. With tank hunters that becomes 11. That's a dead warhound titan (including the void shields) in one turn without having to rely on lucky destroyer roles. It will also fairly easily melt a Revenant titan too with an expected 13.5 hull points vs AV 12 after 4+ holo-field save, as opposed to 9 without tank hunters.
Not sure whether it allows you to re-roll ones from the destroyer table. A 1 is no longer an auto-pen so you are kind of rolling to penetrate, but not vs AV like normal. Probably wouldn't be accepted by most people.
Hit and Run is very important on a 2x wave of withering C'Tan. Getting up into good hellstorm range is going to make you very vulnerable to assault in the next turn from mobile units. Anything fearless with lots of cheap wounds would tarpit him nicely. You don't want him fighting 'gaunts for most of the game. Especially if you didn't take the stomp power.
Automatically Appended Next Post: col_impact wrote:
Also, not sure if Tranny is an auto-include. It's a bit susceptible to grav spam since grav circumvents the 9 toughness and drop pod melta spam is also decently potent. Grav guns seem to be a solid way to fight GMC and LOW in general. Wouldn't be that big of a deal if everyone and their sister didn't play Space Marines.
Keep in mind that point-wise you have to compare Tranny to 3x bargeLord. 3 x bargeLord seems overall better. Differing opinions?
Grav and Melta are both fairly short range though. I think they would struggle to do enough wounds to kill him, and you only get one chance before he wipes these expensive squads off the table. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, beat 4++ invuln beat 5+ FNP. That requires something like 40 shots for 6 wounds. And it's not like they are going to be firing salvos from stationary.
Bargelords have better mobility, but they can also be instant killed and exploded, and have nowhere near the destructive power. At best a handful of warscythe hits per turn + MSS, as opposed to Hellstorm Str D templates or 6D6 Str 8 shots. The cheapest C'Tan that still has 1 x Wave of Withering is merely 650 pts.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/16 12:41:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 13:37:03
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
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Huh, can you buy the same power twice?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 15:39:50
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Until they FAQ it to say otherwise, yes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/16 17:10:27
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Freaky Flayed One
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The Tesseract Vault has to take two different ascendant powers. The Transcendent C'tan has to take two ascendant powers.
They aren't going to FAQ it, the same wording for each is in the Escalation and Apocalypse books. It's perfectly clear.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 18:29:00
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
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So how would you beat a triple wraithknight army without using LoW or anything outside of the combined arms formation at 1500pts?
Keeping in mind the rest of the Eldar army is jetbikes and trying to beef the wraithknights.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 18:59:59
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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BrotherGecko wrote:So how would you beat a triple wraithknight army without using LoW or anything outside of the combined arms formation at 1500pts?
Keeping in mind the rest of the Eldar army is jetbikes and trying to beef the wraithknights.
Triple Death-Scythe, maybe?
Or just tie them up with Scarabs and/or Wraiths for the whole game while the rest of your army takes out his troops.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 19:03:52
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
Israel
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BrotherGecko wrote:So how would you beat a triple wraithknight army without using LoW or anything outside of the combined arms formation at 1500pts?
Keeping in mind the rest of the Eldar army is jetbikes and trying to beef the wraithknights.
Triple Death&Despair squads in scythes.
His army will be all but helpless against the Scythes and a full D&D squad will on average take down a Wraithknight in a single shooting phase.
The main issue would be making sure your minimal ground force survives the until the scythes come in, and the fact your list is basically tailor made against a tripknight list and would be all but useless against most others...
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6,000pts (over 5,000 painted to various degrees, rest are still on the sprues) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 20:50:27
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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For Wraithknights - Run a Swiss Army set of tools in your list that are broadly applicable against all armies.
So if your Swiss Army list included a D&D squad, a Wraith squad, and a Scarab squad, those all could be tasked with handling the Wraithknights without sucking against the rest of the field.
Honorable Mention: Necron Monster Killer Squad: Obyron + Phaeron Overlord + 6 x Wraiths armed with TransD Beamers
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 20:58:31
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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col_impact wrote:Necron Monster Killer Squad: Obyron + Phaeron Overlord + 6 x Wraiths armed with TransD Beamers
I've always wondered about that set up.
What's the mathhammer on this look like?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 21:07:42
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Each six hits with the TransD gives you one insta-killed MC on average, since rolls of 6 auto-fail the strength test check. Since you are shooting to hit on 3s with 6 Wraiths that's 66% chance to off the WraithKnight per round of shooting with a full set of Wraiths.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/17 21:08:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 21:24:40
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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You cripple the Wraiths' movement speed to 50% by doing so. Furthermore, with the tiny range and not every shot hitting, it's a terrible choice. A unit that moves 6'' per turn and is designed to kill a specific target is a bad choice. Yes, you can teleport around, but you will not be in range for the guns in the same turn (unless you go full risk...which is a bad idea). You essentially got yourself an insanely expensive deathstar with your Warlord in it to make matters worse. If you face a lot of MC, get Kulakh. Ignore armor save, ID on each hit. CCB for extra lulz. Alternatively, Sentry Pylons, Heavy Destroyers or Destroteks.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/17 21:25:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 21:33:09
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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col_impact wrote:Each six hits with the TransD gives you one insta-killed MC on average, since rolls of 6 auto-fail the strength test check. Since you are shooting to hit on 3s with 6 Wraiths that's 66% chance to off the WraithKnight per round of shooting with a full set of Wraiths.
... you know, for the price involved versus chance of it actually succeeding, you might just be better off trying to get 3 Monoliths to do it.
(I do really hope they fix this crap in the next codex, though. It seems like a really cool weapon, but no one will ever use it because the neuters the best CC unit in our book)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 21:47:57
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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skoffs wrote:It seems like a really cool weapon, but no one will ever use it because the neuters the best CC unit in our book
Which I still don't get... how do the mindless servant bots pack a bigger punch in combat than the ruling members of a trans-galactic alien race.
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Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 21:52:40
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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IHateNids wrote: skoffs wrote:It seems like a really cool weapon, but no one will ever use it because the neuters the best CC unit in our book
Which I still don't get... how do the mindless servant bots pack a bigger punch in combat than the ruling members of a trans-galactic alien race.
That's the problem when you don't know what you're doing yet still want to change the fluff.
It makes perfect sense in TruCron fluff as Necron Lords aren't "Lords" but mere "puppet generals", serving as energy foci for the Warriors whereas Wraiths are actual combat units. In NewCron fluff...not so much.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 22:12:29
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sigvatr wrote:You cripple the Wraiths' movement speed to 50% by doing so.
Furthermore, with the tiny range and not every shot hitting, it's a terrible choice. A unit that moves 6'' per turn and is designed to kill a specific target is a bad choice. Yes, you can teleport around, but you will not be in range for the guns in the same turn (unless you go full risk...which is a bad idea).
You essentially got yourself an insanely expensive deathstar with your Warlord in it to make matters worse.
If you face a lot of MC, get Kulakh. Ignore armor save, ID on each hit. CCB for extra lulz.
Alternatively, Sentry Pylons, Heavy Destroyers or Destroteks.
Indeed, the Monster Killer squad was not a serious suggestion (note my use of "Honorable Mention"). It's obviously far too narrow but interesting to look at nonetheless. That's why I suggested using 1x D&D, 1 X 6 Wraiths, and 1 x 8-10 Scarabs as the real answer to Wraithknights as well as the rest of the field.
If I were to play it (for fun), I would deep strike aggressively since if you mishap you can simply try again next turn, and also I wouldn't forget that I can detach my ICs from the Wraiths if I need their speed. However, likely I would just keep aggressively teleporting with Obyron, because pushing your luck is fun.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sigvatr wrote:
If you face a lot of MC, get Kulakh. Ignore armor save, ID on each hit. CCB for extra lulz.
Would you care to elaborate how you are getting Kulakh onto a CCB when the 7th edition FAQ specifies the Necron Overlord as the rider and the CCB is no longer a dedicated transport? I imagine we would need FW 7th FAQs to get this to happen.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/17 22:31:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 22:41:51
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
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With 7th Edition that is no longer 'possible'.
He can still take a CCB, but he can't become its rider since that is now limited to Overlords only.
So you would end up with an empty CCB, not sure if that is legal (not sure why I would want that).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 23:08:58
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Also, could you care to elaborate on Sentry Pylons.
1500 points doesn't seem enough for a Pylon Star to be a serious TAC list so that seems out of the question, although I am sure you could rock some armies with it.
If you deploy the Pylons normally you seem to lack a great deal for range. And if you deep strike them in you can't shoot in the deep striking turn so that also seems too slow to be effective.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 23:19:12
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
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Hmm, that seems to be true.
I can't find anything that would give them Relentless.
And since the Death Ray doesn't roll to hit, it cannot snap shot at all.
Another thing I always wondered about was the special targetting.
I nominate a point within range and another one within 3D6 of the first.
But does that second one also need to be within 24"?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 01:27:47
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Agile Revenant Titan
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MLKTH wrote:As a comment to the previous discussion, here's a rather silly list:
Imotekh + Chrono-cryptek
Zahndrekh
5 Warriors
5 Warriors
Tomb Blade
Tomb Blade
Tomb Blade
Trans C'tan (Stride, Withering, Seismic)
1500 points
Zahndrekh for the reasons mentioned above, imotekh mostly to have a 75% chance of getting the first turn in normal circumstances.
I'd never play this crap, but it's an amusing idea.
what are the tomb blades for?
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I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 01:39:44
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Kangodo wrote:Hmm, that seems to be true.
I can't find anything that would give them Relentless.
And since the Death Ray doesn't roll to hit, it cannot snap shot at all.
Another thing I always wondered about was the special targetting.
I nominate a point within range and another one within 3D6 of the first.
But does that second one also need to be within 24"?
Sounds like you might want to catch up on the Sentry-Star thread-
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602923.page
In a lot of 7th lists, single Tomb Blades are commonly used for quick objective grabbing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 01:47:18
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Agile Revenant Titan
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skoffs wrote: In a lot of 7th lists, single Tomb Blades are commonly used for quick objective grabbing. Im assuming for maelstrom?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 01:47:25
I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:34:38
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Kangodo wrote:With 7th Edition that is no longer 'possible'.
He can still take a CCB, but he can't become its rider since that is now limited to Overlords only.
So you would end up with an empty CCB, not sure if that is legal (not sure why I would want that).
It's a very complicated case. It's not clear whether you'd treat it as being embarked on the CCB as a dedicated transport or if it'd be a rider. Technically, though, it would have to treat it as a dedicated transport. Which is weird. Sadly, FW is a bunch of lazies and refuses to update IA12.
col_impact wrote:
Also, could you care to elaborate on Sentry Pylons.
1500 points doesn't seem enough for a Pylon Star to be a serious TAC list so that seems out of the question, although I am sure you could rock some armies with it.
If you deploy the Pylons normally you seem to lack a great deal for range. And if you deep strike them in you can't shoot in the deep striking turn so that also seems too slow to be effective.
I don't like the Sentrystar as it relies on SP too heavily. SP are a great addition to the Necron army and make for some of the most dangerous units in the entire game. The range isn't too shabby - 24'' for the first point, then another ~10" for the second one makes for a whopping 34" range - not too bad
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:02:31
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
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Yeah, I do hope they fix it.
Kutlakh is awesome, but he is too slow to unleash his amazing attacks.
PS. I read the thread and couldn't find the answer to my second question: Does point B also have to be within the Pylon's range?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:12:04
Subject: Re:Necrons in 7th
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Order. Unity. Obedience. We taught the galaxy these things and we will do so again.
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Adepta Sororitas: 3,800 Points
Adeptus Custodes: 8,100 Points
Adeptus Mechanicus: 8,400 Points
Alpha Legion: 4,400 Points
Astra Militarum: 7,500 Points
Dark Angels: 16,800 Points
Imperial Knights: 12,500 Points
Legio Titanicus: 5,500 Points
Slaaneshi Daemons: 3,800 Points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:18:25
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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No, point B does not have to be in the 24'' range.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/18 16:18:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:28:07
Subject: Necrons in 7th
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
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A thanks, that will really help in my upcoming games! I couldn't find anything about the use of those weapons.
PS. Two edits for such a short line?
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