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2015/10/19 03:09:10
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Bronzefists42 wrote: I love Eldar Corsairs and have always mused on doing an army of them.
Out of curiosity is it fair to have a burning grudge against CW Eldar?
It's not only fair, it's expected. They have a ton of overpowered units and rules, and pay far less points than they should for them.
Unless you are an Eldar player, in which case you are claiming that the Eldar are merely the rules accurately reflecting the fluff and that eldar deserve to be better than everyone else.
Of course Dark Eldar hate Eldar and corsairs with a burning passion, since the Corsair rules are what Dark Eldar would have been if they had had half the effort and OP-ness that went into the craftworlder book.
2015/10/19 03:11:54
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Bronzefists42 wrote: I love Eldar Corsairs and have always mused on doing an army of them.
Out of curiosity is it fair to have a burning grudge against CW Eldar?
It's not only fair, it's expected. They have a ton of overpowered units and rules, and pay far less points than they should for them.
Unless you are an Eldar player, in which case you are claiming that the Eldar are merely the rules accurately reflecting the fluff and that eldar deserve to be better than everyone else.
Of course Dark Eldar hate Eldar and corsairs with a burning passion, since the Corsair rules are what Dark Eldar would have been if they had had half the effort and OP-ness that went into the craftworlder book.
I hate people who "hate" armies but I've honestly never had a fun game against CW Eldar.
I've had plenty with DE but if Eldar need to be punished with a millenium of "the Tyranid Treatment."
But how do Corsairs stack up compared to CW Eldar?
2015/10/19 03:56:42
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Apparently the new Corsairs: - Can run 6" after shooting an enemy unit within 12" - Test to regroup at a lower leadership value - Have 30pt (compared to the 27pt CW one) Scatbikes (and a new thing, Dissonance bikes, A unit of bikes with 24" S5 AP4 Heavy 1 Pinning guns that get +1S -1AP for every additional successful To Hit roll the unit makes for the same price as Corsair Scatbikes); and - The Warphunter (a 185pt vehicle with a gun that fires D3+1 small barrage blasts that are S D-1 like D-scythes.
That's what I've seen so far around the interwebs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/19 03:57:13
2015/10/19 05:52:40
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
zedmeister wrote: Interesting comments posted by Theredknight of B&C, especially the bolded part. I suspected that myself, privately.
A few chats let me conclude that fw staff and designers generally don't like 40k rules and the way it is run over there.
That doesn't surprise me - a lot of players don't like rules, either!
Yep. Here's some more from Theredknight - his impression on how the 40k codexes are dumped out.
From the seminar:
They basically stick the model on the table, having never seen it before and get told 'make some rules for it'
So they see a support thing on a leg and think 'that it'd be cool if it shoots all its weapons twice..oh and it'd be cool to take in units of 3. But they can't attack in combat if they have used them, but I did think about letting it use the stand as a cc attack. But no, that'd make them op, so we won't do that, their weakness is that a unit of terminator space marines could slaughter it/ them in combat'
Thats the actual mindset of them, I was sat there thinking, wow.. Do you even play this game? How would you even manage to get near those gun platforms, and survive the 5+hitting on over Watch and other things?
They openly admitted that they don't plan codex updates in conjunction with others in mind or what the codex itself needs, so an army could do with assault units, no, they will do as they please.
Codex now are a 'design team' effort. And the likes of one designer doing an army he really liked (crons were used as an example here) are mostly gone. However those old favourites are still involved (sigh for some)
If they are not interested in the army it was lack lustre (tyranids example) if they loved the army they would be powerful (crons)
To be honest, most of the newer codex have been on a similar over the top rules together. Strength d all over the place makes it hard to enjoy playing against them, we've all been there. It's why we shift to 30k now,
They admit that they leave it open to abuse because 'you can't stop everyone wanting to power game' I think nowadays it is a lot more common than say,4 years ago, with all the d shenanigans and invisible Death Star units and assaulting from deep strike things like sky hammer. But it is all 'cool' to do.
Wowww... At least they're honest about it, I guess?
2015/10/19 10:08:15
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Uriels_Flame wrote: Who/What are solar aux? Sorry I don't follow FW as much if this has been answered already.
The 30k predecessor of the Imperial Guard, only better equipped, better trained and more elite.
Thanks!
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
2015/10/19 18:13:18
Subject: Re:Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Ok, what the gak! How do they take an already potent titan and double down on removing it's one weakness?
I... I don't know if I can even.
Because it pays 0 points for it. After all, that's how it works under your system.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/10/19 20:11:06
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Ok, what the gak! How do they take an already potent titan and double down on removing it's one weakness?
I... I don't know if I can even.
Because it pays 0 points for it. After all, that's how it works under your system.
Golly gee perigrin, I didn't realise my system had updated to show the current power level of this monstrosity. How about instead of snide comments you let me figure out how to balance the nonsensical rules they shoehorned onto this robot? I am in no way going to attempt to condone this, and I have shown many times in my vdr where they have gone wrong with their math.
Cool down guys. Let's just all cry together at how dissapointing this is- for both eldar & non eldar players because after all, people are gonna feel bummed if they fight this and cheap if they bring it.
I feel like the warp hunter & Lynx are just as bad!
2015/10/19 20:41:01
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Wow, the Revenant did not need a buff. I hope that titan rule becomes standard on all titans, thats a copy/paste of the rules the Warlord titan has for being hit in close combat
3000
4000
2015/10/19 20:55:13
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Yeah, that is a SERIOUS kick in the pills. Take away the primary weapons categorization, then add a rule to limit the potency of the walker in a way that only works if it has primary weapons.
This thing should be a solid 1500 points at this juncture. Minimum. What was I thinking in hoping it was going to get a slight nerf or stay the same...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: Cool down guys. Let's just all cry together at how dissapointing this is- for both eldar & non eldar players because after all, people are gonna feel bummed if they fight this and cheap if they bring it.
I feel like the warp hunter & Lynx are just as bad!
At least the warphunter and lynx can be one shotted/forced to jink. The warphunter is also supposedly at the same -1 to the destroyer table, so it can't put out the dreaded 6. It's comparable to a mobile vaul's wrath unit that is easier to mitigate/kill.
The lynx is the only non-superheavy/fortification in the game carrying a titan level weapon. That's insane, but I think it can at least be killed effectively. I don't remember it keeping the titan holofields...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/19 21:09:46
For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
That assumes that the wraithknight is fairly costed which it isn't according to most folks.
2015/10/19 22:02:26
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
The sonic lance is now appropriate for apoc compared to the pulsars, and the mobility of run and gun isn't that great as it already was moving fast enough. It is still way too strong (just like warhounds) for normal 40k though.
2015/10/19 22:06:06
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
Ashiraya wrote:Read the wording on the Wraith Titan rule.
Its weapons do not have the Primary Weapon type, meaning that it may run 12" every turn regardless of weapons fired.
So the titan now can fire at full effect AND JSJ! Just what we needed!
It's actually faster than most flyers without any real downsides or exploitable vulnerabilities. Would have been nice if holo-fields were vulnerable to blast/template weapons... or at least couldn't be used in melee.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Ok, what the gak! How do they take an already potent titan and double down on removing it's one weakness?
I... I don't know if I can even.
You CAN even!
~White girl life coach
2015/10/19 22:14:17
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
That assumes that the wraithknight is fairly costed which it isn't according to most folks.
The WK is fairly costed in the context of any Formation-based army: Necrons, Daemonkin, Space Marines, other Eldar...
That means the WK is fairly-costed the the vast majority of folks. it's just the handful of armies that haven't gotten updates (Chaos Marines, Imperial Guard) that might complain.
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
That assumes that the wraithknight is fairly costed which it isn't according to most folks.
The WK is fairly costed in the context of any Formation-based army: Necrons, Daemonkin, Space Marines, other Eldar...
That means the WK is fairly-costed the the vast majority of folks. it's just the handful of armies that haven't gotten updates (Chaos Marines, Imperial Guard) that might complain.
The needle has moved. Deal with it.
A wraithknight is horribly undercosted for the durability it brings to the table. It should be 100 points more, almost on the nose when compared to other toughness 8 3+ monsters (heirodules, gargantuan squigoth, and the wraithlord)
Given that your costing system has been demonstrated not to work, I don't think you should be making any claims about what any pricing should or should not be. Particularly in the post-Formations metagame.
I don't see how any objective, fair-minded person could consider the Wraithknight "fairly costed" It's probably the the worst offenders in terms of costing, relative to other big stompy things, including post-2015 Formations-based 40k. I mean, 1000 points of Imperial Knights versus 1000 points of Wraithknights. Who would you bet on?
Also, it's not just Imperial Guard and CSM that don't have cool formations. Add Tyranid, Ork, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves... none of them have access to the new toys. But even so, just because there are good formations doesn't make WK too good for its price.
Now, I'm not complaining. I really don't care, because it's easy enough to fix in my games, but I'm just saying... objectively speaking, moist people can easily see that WK is just plain freakin' awesome. The only thing that nerfs Wraithknights in the 2015 meta is ITC, which limits you to 0-1.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/20 00:04:03
2015/10/20 00:20:10
Subject: Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 21 Open day pics and info
The WK is fairly costed in the context of SMs getting free Razorbacks for every squad, Decurion, and so forth.
Given that WKs are designed as hard counters to other big stopy things, you obviously take the WKs in that particular matchup.
I'm aware that it's not just IG and CSM, just that they are the most vocal about always being subpar. "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!".
The presence of good formations is what makes the WK fair. Assume a full SM Company on the board with all of their freebies. Is mono-WK a good counter to those 100 SMs and their bonuses? Probably not. The S(D) weapons are overkill, and they only hit 2 things per turn. Blowing up "free" Razorbacks and killing a few <15 pts Tac Marines is severely underwhelming.
Even better, make it a horde of Ork Boyz, and see how the WK does with those S(D) guns.
Which gets back to my earlier point about Eldar as spoilers and balancers. If the opponent is gearing up with (multiple) Imperial Knight Titans, great. The IKT player does well in the metagame right until he runs into an Eldar player who has the WKs to totally wreck his day. And that's the point.
What is really happening is that we have a lot of non-Eldar players who don't like Eldar WKs nuking their "crutch" units with an anti-meta army. Always been like this, and it's always been fair.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester 
3000
4000 
~4100
~1660
