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Made in gb
Norn Queen






It's been two years since the last discussion about this (as far as I can see), so let's do it again!

So, to lay down some ground rules, I would like to suggest that we avoid actual broken rules (rather than "broken" rules), such as 4e Harlequins having "Furious Assault"; or Chaos Daemons having "Assault Grenades" a month before 5e launched and thus did nothing and other such sillyness.

For me it has to be the 4e Apocalypse Strategic Asset "Jammers".

For context: In 4e Apocalypse each team had a certain number of "Strategic Assets", which were basically Stratagems that each team could use during the game. Before deployment, each Team bids in secret for how long they want to deploy their stuff between 1 and 30 minutes, the lowest bid deploying first, and any stuff not deployed gets put into reserves (the old style where you rolled each turn to see if the unit arrives). In addition to that, before you begin your deployment each team gets 5 minutes to discuss how they will deploy during their aforementioned deployment time.

Jammers reads as follows:
JAMMERS
The comms channels of the enemy are blocked with static, forcing them to deploy blind.

When Revealed: After the bid for deployment, just before the opposing team is given the five minutes to talk about their deployment.

Effect: The opposing team lose their five minutes to discuss deployment and must begin deploying straight away. In addition, they may not communicate with each other during deployment, until the dice to go first is rolled (no speaking, writing, body language or telepathy!).
I have yet to see a rule that utterly destroys the atmosphere and mood of a room as this rule. Its no surprise that this was removed in the 5e Apocalypse Reload.

What rules do you feel were the worst in 40k's history?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 20:19:28


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY FOUR (144) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






EASY question!!! Current edition W40K...

Character targeting rules for Matched play.

Worst evAr! Hands down, no contest!

   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





 oni wrote:
EASY question!!! Current edition W40K...

Character targeting rules for Matched play.

Worst evAr! Hands down, no contest!

Yeah. It should've been something like it can't be targeted if it has friendly units within 2" or something.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





The introduction of vehicle hull points from 5th to 6th

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On the Internet

 skchsan wrote:
 oni wrote:
EASY question!!! Current edition W40K...

Character targeting rules for Matched play.

Worst evAr! Hands down, no contest!

Yeah. It should've been something like it can't be targeted if it has friendly units within 2" or something.

I'd argue they should be target-able but able to shunt the wounds onto a unit within 3" unless the shooting unit has the Sniper keyword.

Then again I also for arguing for shooting through enemy units needing a BS modifier or having the misses roll to hit the unit in the way, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






6th/7th ed casualty removal rules.

I know, let’s put a rule that would be at home in a skirmish game in a clunky company level game that grinds everything to a halt with stupid things like characters tanking saves and having to break out the callipers to find out who is closest.

Dumbest fething rule ever.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

 Grimtuff wrote:
6th/7th ed casualty removal rules.

I know, let’s put a rule that would be at home in a skirmish game in a clunky company level game that grinds everything to a halt with stupid things like characters tanking saves and having to break out the callipers to find out who is closest.

Dumbest fething rule ever.

That would have to be my vote if it wasn't for Invisibility being even more of a train wreck.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I heard tales of that one rule from 5th or 6th where models drew line of sight with their eyes so that nothing without eyes could ever shoot because they could never draw line of sight.

 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





The rule that I must give my opponent a back rub if I lose! That is the worst rule ever! I hate it!
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 skchsan wrote:
 oni wrote:
EASY question!!! Current edition W40K...

Character targeting rules for Matched play.

Worst evAr! Hands down, no contest!

Yeah. It should've been something like it can't be targeted if it has friendly units within 2" or something.
Agreed. Both the Coherency Rule and Character rules were stupidly changed in 8e for no reason when they worked perfectly fine in 7e.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY FOUR (144) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





8the edition wounding table anyone?

Or am I the only one that is annoyed by it?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

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10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

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Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
6th/7th ed casualty removal rules.

I know, let’s put a rule that would be at home in a skirmish game in a clunky company level game that grinds everything to a halt with stupid things like characters tanking saves and having to break out the callipers to find out who is closest.

Dumbest fething rule ever.

That would have to be my vote if it wasn't for Invisibility being even more of a train wreck.


I sat out 6th and 7th (mainly due to the above and several other things). Spill! What made invisibility so bad? I heard things but as I never played I don’t know the ins and outs of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I heard tales of that one rule from 5th or 6th where models drew line of sight with their eyes so that nothing without eyes could ever shoot because they could never draw line of sight.


That’s more people taking the piss out of TLOS, which despite being a rule since 40k’s inception was apparently a new rule in 5th...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 20:43:06




A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

 Grimtuff wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
6th/7th ed casualty removal rules.

I know, let’s put a rule that would be at home in a skirmish game in a clunky company level game that grinds everything to a halt with stupid things like characters tanking saves and having to break out the callipers to find out who is closest.

Dumbest fething rule ever.

That would have to be my vote if it wasn't for Invisibility being even more of a train wreck.


I sat out 6th and 7th (mainly due to the above and several other things). Spill! What made invisibility so bad? I heard things but as I never played I don’t know the ins and outs of it.

It made units untargetable in most situations and was a lynchpin in the 2++ unkillable deathstar combos of the day.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Grimtuff wrote:
I sat out 6th and 7th (mainly due to the above and several other things). Spill! What made invisibility so bad? I heard things but as I never played I don’t know the ins and outs of it.
You could only "Snap Shot" at invisible units. That meant only hitting on 6's and totally unable to shoot Template (Flamers) or Blast weapons at the unit. It was combo'd with 3++ or 2++ saves to make a unit functionally immortal. It could affect both Deathstars (multiple Characters grouped together) or even Super-Heavy units like Wraithknights.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/11 20:47:53


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY FOUR (144) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
6th/7th ed casualty removal rules.

I know, let’s put a rule that would be at home in a skirmish game in a clunky company level game that grinds everything to a halt with stupid things like characters tanking saves and having to break out the callipers to find out who is closest.

Dumbest fething rule ever.

That would have to be my vote if it wasn't for Invisibility being even more of a train wreck.


I sat out 6th and 7th (mainly due to the above and several other things). Spill! What made invisibility so bad? I heard things but as I never played I don’t know the ins and outs of it.

It made units untargetable in most situations and was a lynchpin in the 2++ unkillable deathstar combos of the day.
Codename: Superfriends
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Douglasville, GA

I started in 8th, so I can't say anything about previous editions, but the sheer abundance of giant robots and vehicles with 3++ Invuln Saves is crazy. It's pretty bad that I have a better chance of dealing damage to a Riptide with a Boy Blob hitting it with knives than I do with a Rocket Launcher designed for the purpose of taking down big things.

Which kinda just goes to my biggest gripe of volume of attacks/shots being more important to taking down anything than using weapons designed for those targets.
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

 flandarz wrote:
I started in 8th, so I can't say anything about previous editions, but the sheer abundance of giant robots and vehicles with 3++ Invuln Saves is crazy. It's pretty bad that I have a better chance of dealing damage to a Riptide with a Boy Blob hitting it with knives than I do with a Rocket Launcher designed for the purpose of taking down big things.

Which kinda just goes to my biggest gripe of volume of attacks/shots being more important to taking down anything than using weapons designed for those targets.

The invul problem used to be worst and GW is slowly scaling it back now. These days Invuls seem to exist more to cap how much AP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 20:51:43


 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Not the worst rule per se, but orks having longer range with blast weapons due to scatter is pretty up there.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Invisibility was very bad yes. Worse however was Shifting Worldscape.

Ugh... I'm having nightmarish flash backs of Matt Ward and how everything associated with him was a complete dumpster fire.

For those who don't know the name he was GW's pariah. He literally (no exaggeration) nearly put the whole company in ruin.
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

 oni wrote:
Invisibility was very bad yes. Worse however was Shifting Worldscape.

Ugh... I'm having nightmarish flash backs of Matt Ward and how everything associated with him was a complete dumpster fire.

For those who don't know the name he was GW's pariah. He literally (no exaggeration) nearly put the whole company in ruin.

He wrote some of the more internally balanced rulesets, and strangely did really well writing the lore for the WD Sisters codex (Cruddace apparently writing the rules).

I feel some of the things he was blamed for were design by executive mandate issues since there was a big push for new stuff to be better than old stuff at the time as well.

And at least he didn't write the Warpstorm table.
   
Made in ie
Furious Raptor




Ireland

That "Remove from play" baloney that the grey knights got against daemons when they finally got a new codex. I get that they were meant to have an edge against daemons, so just give them preferred enemy! Not this auto-win "no fun allowed" stuff..

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lash was pretty bad IMO just because it created a lot of weird situations in pick up games. I remember a lot of tense moments when the other player would move their opponents models and even a few were something got broken or an argument would break out over people not wanting someone else to handle their property.
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





HoundsofDemos wrote:
Lash was pretty bad IMO just because it created a lot of weird situations in pick up games. I remember a lot of tense moments when the other player would move their opponents models and even a few were something got broken or an argument would break out over people not wanting someone else to handle their property.


Doubly so because all csm Players got forced into it more or less.
Thanks to that horrendus codex.
I still use it as a Coffee cup holder.

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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Jink.

Jink singlehandedly made the 'stealthy' armies obsolete, since the counters for Jink tended to also affect Stealth and Shrouded.
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





 Kanluwen wrote:
Jink.

Jink singlehandedly made the 'stealthy' armies obsolete, since the counters for Jink tended to also affect Stealth and Shrouded.
There was nothing wrong with jink until it became universal rule. Then every body on the street got it for some odd reason and now everyone had to come with a counter to cover saves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 21:06:07


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
For me it has to be the 4e Apocalypse Strategic Asset "Jammers".
If you open it up to apocalypse then it is always going to be :

"Redemptors: A Grey Knight Redemptor Force may only enter the table if the opponent is using a Greater Daemon and/or a Warp Rift in his army. If at any point after the Grey Knights have entered play there are no Chaos models on the table, the Chaos player may control the Grey Knights as if they were his own troops..."
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





 ClockworkZion wrote:
 oni wrote:
Invisibility was very bad yes. Worse however was Shifting Worldscape.

Ugh... I'm having nightmarish flash backs of Matt Ward and how everything associated with him was a complete dumpster fire.

For those who don't know the name he was GW's pariah. He literally (no exaggeration) nearly put the whole company in ruin.

He wrote some of the more internally balanced rulesets, and strangely did really well writing the lore for the WD Sisters codex (Cruddace apparently writing the rules).

I feel some of the things he was blamed for were design by executive mandate issues since there was a big push for new stuff to be better than old stuff at the time as well.

And at least he didn't write the Warpstorm table.

Ward almost single-handedly destroyed WHFB.

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
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Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch





HoundsofDemos wrote:
Lash was pretty bad IMO just because it created a lot of weird situations in pick up games. I remember a lot of tense moments when the other player would move their opponents models and even a few were something got broken or an argument would break out over people not wanting someone else to handle their property.


Yea lash was pretty bad. I always let my opponent move his own models when I cast it to avoid that.

Also the 2++ re-reroll BS in 6th/7th (they blend together for me) was nonsense, especially since then there was no way to circumvent invuls, unlike now when at least there are mortal wounds or spells to remove invuls. Glad GW is moving away from that with the 3++ cap on most things.

I would also say fliers in 6th/7th, since they could only be hit on 6's, and if someone brought a bunch it was super annoying.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Ward almost single-handedly destroyed WHFB.

Sorry, that goes to Alessio Cavatore. The damage he caused to the game festered for yeaaaaaaars.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 21:21:08


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Kanluwen wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Ward almost single-handedly destroyed WHFB.

Sorry, that goes to Alessio Cavatore. The damage he caused to the game festered for yeaaaaaaars.


You have an odd way of spelling Mat Ward.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
 
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