Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

My nephew is well into 40k in terms of space marines vs aliens and collecting the models etc but attempts to play the game with him tend to result in him losing interest as they can go on a bit and the lees a lot of rules and tactics to try and pick up. Besides playing smaller games with trimmed rules/tactics would you recommend some of the other games for young gamers. I’m thinking kill team, Blackstone fortress, SM adventures or the gladiator one.

I’ve been away from 40k for a long time so don’t really know about these games. Do they allow you to use other models you have collected?

Thanks

Find an old copy of HeroQuest on ebay

How old is your nephew? that might make our responses a bit easier to judge. that said if he's old eneugh for a game like kill team etc hes proably fine playing 40k proper, specially if it was a lower points game. I'd advise buying him a copy of Know No Fear and playing exclusivly with whats in the box. IIRC Know No Fear has pretty basic rules without the more complicated codex stuff etc adding layers of depth to it. once he gets more comfortable with the game he can then expand up,

Kill Team may be the way to go. The quicker turns and semi alternate activation helps with not losing interest when you do not have anything to do. My son often gets bored and loses focus during the other player's turn in regular 40k, but has a much easier time maintaining interest and focus when playing Kill Team.

Regular 40k is best and easiest.

Just play a small game where turns don't last long. If you're playing a big game and he has to wait 30 minutes for his turn he'll lose interest.

 Ishagu wrote:
Regular 40k is best and easiest.

Just play a small game where turns don't last long. If you're playing a big game and he has to wait 30 minutes for his turn he'll lose interest.

Having extensive experience trying to get 2 video-game addicted kids into 40K (who are now Teens and each have 1500pts of Marines they've fully painted), this is the right approach.

At first it was hard to keep their attention (especially in 1v2 games when 1 boy was resolving stuff while the other isn't doing anything). But I started small and built lists that specifically favored them (or if they played each other, were mirrored lists).
We didn't use WL Traits, Relics, Psychic powers, Chapter Tactic equivalents or Stratagems at all (except the Re-roll Strat). At 500pts, cutting out all those extras and using units without too many abilities helped them grasp the basic rules quicker.
And when I played them 1v2, my list was always weaker to help them stay engaged and "winning" for most of the game, even though I didn't always let them win

We've been playing since just before 8E dropped and use the full spectrum of rules now, but I added them in small increments, like WL Traits & Relics at 750pts, then at 1000pts we added Chapter Tactics and so on.

Now my biggest hurtle is getting them to keep playing at 1500pts at a decent pace and stop getting side-tracked by foolishness. Even though they know the rules, we often don't get started playing until the evening (because work/school) and they both play so SLOOOOOOWWW that we hardly ever finish a game in the same day we start. And that grates on my OCD to finish what we start and put my models/terrain back on this shelves.

-

Play the old combat patrol, 40k in 40mins 400pts

If you're GMing, a game like 2nd ed would be much easier/more fun to run at small points values than 8th ed. But small games of 8th are fine.

When a new edition of 40k comes out, the games at the club I go back to basics.
A couple of troop choices, a boss, and a special squad or two. No vehicles, warlord powers, psychics etc, for a couple of games each. Games are usually quick enough (relevant here), and we don't run into too many questions after the 2nd or 3rd game (terrain, climbing, area weapons, pistols).
We often go back to doing those when regular games get too clogged up later into an edition.

How long is the attention span? We find the combat patrol format of 500 point games take around an hour.
This link might show you the rules.
https://www.google.com/search?q=meetup+london+warhammer+combat+patrol+tournament&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB860GB860&oq=meetup+london+warhammer+combat+patrol+tournament&aqs=chrome..69i57.9270j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ibp=htl;events&rciv=evn&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDvuL1od_kAhVlTxUIHTSSBNAQ5bwDMAB6BAgKEAE#fpstate=tldetail&htidocid=0jPPT-VSualOle8gJpA8-A%3D%3D&htivrt=events

Kill team we find often takes an hour as well.

Warcry (the fantasy version) seems to play a lot quicker.

If he likes marines only get a copy of betrayal at Calth for pennies on ebay (sans models). Great little game.

More expensive is spacehulk with the simpler missions taking about 30 minutes to play through.

Longer but more involving could be Blood Bowl though sometimes it is hard for younger players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the 500 point version here is me discussing a list for just such an event.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780170.page#10576532

Hi everyone he’s 10 and only attempted 2 games. Thing is he has a bunch of models that came with the 8e boxed set and a few he got for his birthday so gets excited at the idea of big battle haha.

Thanks for the advice I’ll check it all out.

mrFickle wrote:
Hi everyone he’s 10 and only attempted 2 games. Thing is he has a bunch of models that came with the 8e boxed set and a few he got for his birthday so gets excited at the idea of big battle haha.

Thanks for the advice I’ll check it all out.

If you want to play a big battle without it being super complicated, check out Apocalypse. Much less downtime (the game does not have one player taking his whole turn then the other player taking his whole turn) and requires rolling and rerolling much less dice.

Also, things are a lot less deadly in apocalypse, so your favorite stuff sticks around longer.

try this one
https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/

I'll be honest, if you mean proper kids...I'd skip any 40K at all, unless it's a boardgame (that weird Necron one from the book stores, etc.). I'd aim at a board game, particularly one which is a bit more simple. While you can't find it for less than $200, something "like" Hero Quest would have been a perfect option.

Rules have never been GW's strong suit. Most of their games being intrinsically tied to a meta game or follow-on purchases, etc. A fully contained boxed game, ala a board game with many figures might be far more palatable for a younger player. Throw it all in a box when you're done. Often, depending on the game, the mechanics can be more kid-friendly. The "feel bads" from meta gaming or the arms race that quickly evolves in any GW product is probably best avoided.

I grew up with Hero Quest, then Battlemasters, etc. Really solid games that even a 10-12 year old could more or less fully understand/contemplate/play without being at a disadvantage. I don't know what the modern equivalent to those would be now though, particularly in a sci-fi or 40K setting.

How about some old school combat patrol? 400 points a side, and either just plain kill each other or fight over one objective in the middle of the board.

Space Hulk
Combat Patrol

Why Space Hulk isn't in permanent production will forever astound me.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Space Hulk
Combat Patrol

Why Space Hulk isn't in permanent production will forever astound me.

Yeah, it is/was so good, and was the initial introduction to the 40k universe for myself and so many others.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Space Hulk
Combat Patrol

Why Space Hulk isn't in permanent production will forever astound me.

I think its because when it came back into production last time it was under GW's old mantra to specialist games, which was, like Dreadfleet, aimed at basically taking an old game concept and releasing it as a one time board game. Basically looking to turn profit on investment and nothing more; rather than producing a long term game.

Right now its main problem on returning would be competing with Blackstone which honestly offers far more diversity in models and factions (even though GW has yet to allow the Tyranids to play). What's more shocking is that genestealers that started out their life in the original game are almost unchanged since then (though the kit has gained a few new heads and armour plates and such).

As a thought, maybe try something like an Escalation League.

Week 1: Buy HQ model, assemble, and paint it. Play a trimmed down and very forgiving game of 40K (like allow the model to come back to life 3 to 5 times but has to start back within the deployment zone).

Week 2: Buy a box of troops, assemble, and paint them. Play only with the HQ and box of troops. Tighten up the rules a little to where the HQ can come back to life two times, and maybe reroll all ones (just a suggestion).

Week 3: Maybe buy a transport and work on embarkation and disembarkation while not focusing so much on taking out the opposing player's transport. Maybe start working on teaching cover here by using the transport as cover.

This is all just my $0.02. You don't have to follow it. And, it doesn't have to be weekly. You can do this every other week or monthly depending on how much time you all have. Just start off making the game really short while teaching just some core basics. Then move on to having more bodies on the table that have fewer wounds than the HQ. Then, vehicles and cover. From there, maybe go by points. If you're not already at 250 points, then work on getting there, then 500, then 750, then 1000. Work your way on up to 2000.

Again, all just my $0.02

SG

As much as I like the old Combat Patrol and feel that it captures the essence of the style game that is ideal for beginners, I don't think it meshes well with 8E anymore. You have to house rule too much since Vehicles don't; have Armour anymore and the AP system mitigates things with 2+ saves (which weren't allowed in Combat Patrol)

I think a better way is to just start with a 500pt Patrol Detachment and cut out WL traits, CT equivalents, Relic and Codex Stratagems. The BRB strats are simple enough and give a good grasp on the CP-strat mechanic.
Play a few games with those restictions and build up fromt here.
That's what I've doen with my boys and they have the rules down. Tactics....not so much, but they're getting there.

And by far the MOST important things to do are to be patient and don't try to win. You want to intentionally present favorable situations in which they can roll dice that make an affect for them. That keeps them engaged, even if they don't win in the end.
I always kept them close to winning so they'd want to play again.

-

Seconding Grimdark Future. Simple rules and alternating activation allow for pretty easy play.

 Galef wrote:
As much as I like the old Combat Patrol and feel that it captures the essence of the style game that is ideal for beginners, I don't think it meshes well with 8E anymore. You have to house rule too much since Vehicles don't; have Armour anymore and the AP system mitigates things with 2+ saves (which weren't allowed in Combat Patrol)

I think a better way is to just start with a 500pt Patrol Detachment and cut out WL traits, CT equivalents, Relic and Codex Stratagems. The BRB strats are simple enough and give a good grasp on the CP-strat mechanic.
Play a few games with those restictions and build up fromt here.
That's what I've doen with my boys and they have the rules down. Tactics....not so much, but they're getting there.

And by far the MOST important things to do are to be patient and don't try to win. You want to intentionally present favorable situations in which they can roll dice that make an affect for them. That keeps them engaged, even if they don't win in the end.
I always kept them close to winning so they'd want to play again.

-

How about;
- 400 point max
- patrol detachment
- characters are limited to a max of six wounds (maybe seven, depending on what fits this criteria)
- vehicles and monsters are limited to a max of ten wounds (maybe twelve, depending on what fits this criteria)
- strategems from the BRB
- no relics
- no more than 200 points on a single unit (maybe 250, depending on what fits this criteria)

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Galef wrote:
As much as I like the old Combat Patrol and feel that it captures the essence of the style game that is ideal for beginners, I don't think it meshes well with 8E anymore. You have to house rule too much since Vehicles don't; have Armour anymore and the AP system mitigates things with 2+ saves (which weren't allowed in Combat Patrol)

I think a better way is to just start with a 500pt Patrol Detachment and cut out WL traits, CT equivalents, Relic and Codex Stratagems. The BRB strats are simple enough and give a good grasp on the CP-strat mechanic.
Play a few games with those restictions and build up fromt here.
That's what I've doen with my boys and they have the rules down. Tactics....not so much, but they're getting there.

And by far the MOST important things to do are to be patient and don't try to win. You want to intentionally present favorable situations in which they can roll dice that make an affect for them. That keeps them engaged, even if they don't win in the end.
I always kept them close to winning so they'd want to play again.

-

How about;
- 400 point max
- patrol detachment
- characters are limited to a max of six wounds (maybe seven, depending on what fits this criteria)
- vehicles and monsters are limited to a max of ten wounds (maybe twelve, depending on what fits this criteria)
- strategems from the BRB
- no relics
- no more than 200 points on a single unit (maybe 250, depending on what fits this criteria)

Yeah, basically. But I feel it's different enough from Combat Patrol that you're house ruling the limits to the point that it's not really Combat Patrol
Let's call it Combat Patrol in SPIRIT.

I think a simpler method would be 500pts, Patrol Detachment, no single unit can exceed 200pts, BRB Stratagems only, no relics or traits
The reason I'd go with 500pts rather than 400 is because most Start Collecting sets exceed 400pts, that included the Marine and Nurgle halves of Dark Imperium
So 500pts is a better "catch-all" for the majority of starting armies that would include 1 HQ, 1 Troop and 1-2 special units

-

Blackstone Fortress is absolutely the best game for kids because it is a cooperative play game that focusses on growing a single character over the course of a campaign.

Both Kill Team rules and 40k rules come with every model in the box, so as your kid's interest grows, they can transition to more competitive gaming with more models by going to Kill Team.

Once they've got the game on that scale, you can totally take the training wheels off and transition into 40k.

 Elbows wrote:
I'll be honest, if you mean proper kids...I'd skip any 40K at all, unless it's a boardgame (that weird Necron one from the book stores, etc.). I'd aim at a board game, particularly one which is a bit more simple. While you can't find it for less than $200, something "like" Hero Quest would have been a perfect option.

Rules have never been GW's strong suit. Most of their games being intrinsically tied to a meta game or follow-on purchases, etc. A fully contained boxed game, ala a board game with many figures might be far more palatable for a younger player. Throw it all in a box when you're done. Often, depending on the game, the mechanics can be more kid-friendly. The "feel bads" from meta gaming or the arms race that quickly evolves in any GW product is probably best avoided.

I grew up with Hero Quest, then Battlemasters, etc. Really solid games that even a 10-12 year old could more or less fully understand/contemplate/play without being at a disadvantage. I don't know what the modern equivalent to those would be now though, particularly in a sci-fi or 40K setting.

This is sort of a silly comment. When I was a kid I never kept up with the meta nor did I need to. Other rules literally don't matter.

I do miss Hero Quest and Battlemasters though...

I think Galef is on the right track.

As much as I would like to suggest Kill Team, that game is just different enough as to create a bit of negative learning if the aim is to play full 40k eventually. I also don't think young boys are going to be as thrilled only playing infantry when they could be playing something with vehicles.

I think stripped-down, small point games sticking with 8th edition is for the best. Anything else won't bridge as well if they keep wanting to play.