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I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to ask this question but here it is.

Does anyone know of any really fleshed out alternate 40k rulesets to play by?

I'm specifically looking for something where every army is balanced but still unique.

My local gaming group is getting tired of 8th. Tired of cultists getting an armor save against a bolt shells. Tired of flamers spurting a single hit etc etc.

I know this is asking for a lot, just figured I'd ask.

Older editions. 30k. 1d4chan has homebrew 30k Xenos.

You know what's easier & more satisfying than everyone learning a whole new system? Just house-ruling the one you've got to your own liking. I mean, you all have opinions about how things should work/how you want them to work & GW just makes up s*** every few years.... So why can't you?

I understand apocalypse is a pretty tight ruleset, and when played at 100pl you're basically fielding 2000 point armies. It looks promising.

There is none.
A GW strike team is headed to your house.
Please, don't offer resistance.

I would suggest 30k. It's what I switched to and it's been great.

The Apocalypse suggestion was solid. Also, you could go with a streets of death city fight campaign (Urban Conquest)- I like it when these escalate from Kill Team to 40k to Apocalypse, but that's your call. A lot of folks just prefer city fight cover rules.

The strength of 8th is its potential for campaign play.

Anyone I've ever seen have a severe dislike of 8th ed rules plays stand alone competitive games- not always tournaments, but often.

Some of us story first types have a rule here and there that we think could be better, but generally, for us it's not a big enough deal that we want to quit or seek other alternatives.

Keep in mind that Psychic Awakening may have a real impact on the game. Looking elsewhere may be premature.

I play exclusively apoc now. 100-150 pl is the sweet spot.

One page 40K
Beyond the Gates of 40K (uses Beyond the Gates of Antares rules)
40K Bolt Action (uses Bolt Action rules)

https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/
This is "one page 40k" aka Grimdark Future. All armies supportee, quick and easy to learn. Cannot speak to balance but it seems alright. Worth trying since the investment in money and time is so small. Also recommend 5e 40k.

Apoc is really nice, night need to modify the objectives a tiny bit, butt he rules are solid.

Thank you everyone for your input. We are looking into getting some 30k rules and seeing how that works. Thanks!

Do apoc players use the expanded card list? The one you had to order separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:
The Apocalypse suggestion was solid. Also, you could go with a streets of death city fight campaign (Urban Conquest)- I like it when these escalate from Kill Team to 40k to Apocalypse, but that's your call. A lot of folks just prefer city fight cover rules.

The strength of 8th is its potential for campaign play.

Anyone I've ever seen have a severe dislike of 8th ed rules plays stand alone competitive games- not always tournaments, but often.

Some of us story first types have a rule here and there that we think could be better, but generally, for us it's not a big enough deal that we want to quit or seek other alternatives.

Keep in mind that Psychic Awakening may have a real impact on the game. Looking elsewhere may be premature.

So you get both a +1 save and a -1 to hit in cover? Doesn't that seem like a lot?

Even better, you can get both -1 to hit and +2 save with CoD. That reduces lethality from shooting while promoting close assault storming, which should be a thing in any urban or otherwise dense environment. Also, since getting above your opponent gives 1 AP, that also promotes better positioning play. I play against guardsmen in cover and I enjoy it, because terrain should matter and units should reliably be wiped out only if they are bold enough to stand in the open.

Reducing lethality in 40k is only a good thing.

Also, if the system is otherwise fine to you but gets tiring, try twisting it a bit. I found so much more joy from it when we implemented alternating activations into 40k and without a hitch it just got better.

Trying Apoc is also something I'd recommend, it is a very good package. As said above, 100-150 power is a large game of 40k without the cumbersome aspects. Personally I'd play it with 6 mm models if possible, but 28 is fine too.

@OP:

Every army balanced in 40K? Are you smoking weed, pal? 40K was never balanced and will never be balanced. Do yourself a favour and play chess instead.

 Da Boss wrote:
https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/
This is "one page 40k" aka Grimdark Future. All armies supportee, quick and easy to learn. Cannot speak to balance but it seems alright. Worth trying since the investment in money and time is so small. Also recommend 5e 40k.

This is really cool, actually. I'm exalting it as probably the best direct answer to OP's question.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Do apoc players use the expanded card list? The one you had to order separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:
The Apocalypse suggestion was solid. Also, you could go with a streets of death city fight campaign (Urban Conquest)- I like it when these escalate from Kill Team to 40k to Apocalypse, but that's your call. A lot of folks just prefer city fight cover rules.

The strength of 8th is its potential for campaign play.

Anyone I've ever seen have a severe dislike of 8th ed rules plays stand alone competitive games- not always tournaments, but often.

Some of us story first types have a rule here and there that we think could be better, but generally, for us it's not a big enough deal that we want to quit or seek other alternatives.

Keep in mind that Psychic Awakening may have a real impact on the game. Looking elsewhere may be premature.

So you get both a +1 save and a -1 to hit in cover? Doesn't that seem like a lot?

Cities of Death is VERY good for 40k, i really wish it would just be main rules. can get -1 or +1 to be hit, always hit on 6+, +1/+2 to cover, all cover matters (even height), street rules for more movement, etc... It really opens up the normal 40k a bit more and gives players incentives to play with the terrain rules (B.c it really seems like very little players knows all the terrain rules and plays with them when they can actually be game changing).

About Apoc cards? Yes i play with the extras but you dont need them, i dont really notice them to much, you go through your full deck easily at smaller levels, and 2-3x at higher levels, so having a few extra cards to pick from can help, but you might only see them once or twice. Its more important to get a few key cards and a couple versons of them if you can (like moral, take damage counters off, seize the int, swap orders of activations, etc..)

 Lance845 wrote:
I play exclusively apoc now. 100-150 pl is the sweet spot.

Agreed, 8th edition is dead to me as a game I will willingly play. 150PL apoc is great, but my main concern is GW seem to have abandoned it. If they haven't made any fixes or changes by Christmas I'll have to try and form an ITC style organization to fix it.

Apoc and the beyond the gates of antares adaption are both really good. The one page rules are also pretty good.

However if you have people in your group that enjoy the imbalance, they will chaffe at those rulesets.

One page rules. It is a free system that while simple offers more tactical depth than 8th edition could hope to.

Played a few games of it with different races, Eldar, Marines, and Tyranids. They all seemed pretty well balanced.

Haven't played Apocalypse, while the core mechanics look great, the cost and the sheer number of cards puts me off.

Before splashing out cash to try a different system, I'd strongly recommend trying the one that is free first.

It's very easy to adapt Tactical Assault: Combat Cards.

http://www.tacticalassaultgames.com/category/combat_cards/

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to ask this question but here it is.

Does anyone know of any really fleshed out alternate 40k rulesets to play by?

I'm specifically looking for something where every army is balanced but still unique.

My local gaming group is getting tired of 8th. Tired of cultists getting an armor save against a bolt shells. Tired of flamers spurting a single hit etc etc.

I know this is asking for a lot, just figured I'd ask.

You can try older editions, but none are going to be particularly any better in terms of every army being balanced & unique, most in fact will probably be worse. I can't think of any other system that will encompass the variety and scale of units and factions that 40k does, mainly because most other systems will break up the scale 40k plays at into 2 or 3 different game systems (e.g. won't have Knights able to be played in a system where an infantry carried power sword vs a power axe is relevant) and don't have anything near the same raw number of factions and units.

I'm going to agree with the people bringing up One page rules. They've got a good rules team and adjust balance monthly.
Alternating activation is the way of the future.
They've even got a few miniatures now.

Amishprn86 wrote:
Cities of Death is VERY good for 40k, i really wish it would just be main rules. can get -1 or +1 to be hit, always hit on 6+, +1/+2 to cover, all cover matters (even height), street rules for more movement, etc... It really opens up the normal 40k a bit more and gives players incentives to play with the terrain rules (B.c it really seems like very little players knows all the terrain rules and plays with them when they can actually be game changing).

About Apoc cards? Yes i play with the extras but you dont need them, i dont really notice them to much, you go through your full deck easily at smaller levels, and 2-3x at higher levels, so having a few extra cards to pick from can help, but you might only see them once or twice. Its more important to get a few key cards and a couple versons of them if you can (like moral, take damage counters off, seize the int, swap orders of activations, etc..)

Sherrypie wrote:Even better, you can get both -1 to hit and +2 save with CoD. That reduces lethality from shooting while promoting close assault storming, which should be a thing in any urban or otherwise dense environment. Also, since getting above your opponent gives 1 AP, that also promotes better positioning play. I play against guardsmen in cover and I enjoy it, because terrain should matter and units should reliably be wiped out only if they are bold enough to stand in the open.

Reducing lethality in 40k is only a good thing.

Also, if the system is otherwise fine to you but gets tiring, try twisting it a bit. I found so much more joy from it when we implemented alternating activations into 40k and without a hitch it just got better.

Trying Apoc is also something I'd recommend, it is a very good package. As said above, 100-150 power is a large game of 40k without the cumbersome aspects. Personally I'd play it with 6 mm models if possible, but 28 is fine too.

I find it hard to believe a guardsman in cover should be as tough as a marine in the open. But I will have to get the book and give it a try before I criticize it.

So most Apoc players use the extra card set? I hope it's still sold in the states, I don't see it on GW's website. And is Apoc still balanced at 100pl, or even 50pl? I find 40k, for all its faults, scales down well as long as you avoid rock/papers/scissors lists.

ITC fits as an alternative

 Haanz wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/
This is "one page 40k" aka Grimdark Future. All armies supportee, quick and easy to learn. Cannot speak to balance but it seems alright. Worth trying since the investment in money and time is so small. Also recommend 5e 40k.

This is really cool, actually. I'm exalting it as probably the best direct answer to OP's question.

Both Grimdark future and Age of Fantasy are solid and fun. Also they both have skirmish rulesets that use slightly modified versions of the base rules. I have been having tons of fun with both systems (especially since the entire collection uses the same basic core rules).

Now they have campaign systems added for the skirmish subsets, as well as solo rules. All free!

 Da Boss wrote:
https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/
This is "one page 40k" aka Grimdark Future. All armies supportee, quick and easy to learn. Cannot speak to balance but it seems alright. Worth trying since the investment in money and time is so small. Also recommend 5e 40k.

Thanks for that, I completely forgot this existed. I joined the forum 5 years ago (!) And promptly forgot about it...

I’d suggest 4th ed. I’ve heard of some big homebrews where the I go you go system has changed to alternate unit activation, maybe you could find it in the you make da call forum?

One page rules seconded - although the Epic Space Marine rules are a favourite though now OOP. Believe Net Epic is still available, though.

These are for 6/8mm figures, but call one 'base' one figure, give vehicles 'hit points' for the number of vehicles in the squad, you are good to go.