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I'm really sick of the Marine releases, to the point where I'm likely going to stop playing for a little bit of time.

The first PA book was a sliver of hope that has ultimately failed to excite me, as a non-Marine player.

I'm sick of Marines enjoying all the newest, best looking and most effective models compared to every other faction. I'm sick of marines having 95% of the focus. I'm sick of marines getting releases that overshadow all others.

I brought into the rhetoric GW fed us that things would be different in 8th. That they'd listen to the fanbase. That they were going to spread some of the love of new models. That they would balance models and factions as best they could, rather than on sales figures. It is starting to seem that this was all a load of hot air.

Things have been good, not great, but good. Slowly but surely it seems that GW are falling into old habits though. The new Marine releases are a joke. They are a joke in terms of competitive power. They are a joke in terms of focus. Why do only the blessed factions get sub faction specific codexes, units and models? Why am I expected to just accept that, as a consumer, if I don't play a Marine faction of some sort I will not get consistent, interesting or decent releases?

I appreciate that this is a whiny thread and I apologise for that. The reason I've made this thread is to see if anyone else feels the same and if there is any way to petition GW to change their stance.

You certainly aren't the only one who feels this way.

Over the years, DE have lost:
- Archons on Jetbikes
- Archons on Skyboards
- Haemonculi on Jetbikes
- Haemonculi on Skyboards
- Dracons
- Haemonculus Ancients
- Vect
- The Dais of Destruction
- Lady Malys
- Duke Sliscus
- Baron Sathonyx
- Kheradruakh the Decapitator
(To say nothing of the swathes of wargear that have been removed wholesale.)

And I don't even mean 'confined to index', I mean gone completely. The first five have been gone since 5th edition, the rest were all removed by the godawful 7th edition DE book.

Indeed, the only models DE has been given from 7th onwards have been:
- Replacement Archon sculpt (which looks far worse than the previous one)
- Replacement Haemonculus
- Replacement Drazhar
- Replacement Incubi

This is all we've had in the past 11 years or so.

But sure, it's far more important to just invent a whole new type of slightly-bigger Marine and dedicate everything to producing more and more of them. Oh and Roman Marines. Because how could the game have even survived without Roman Marines being added?

I'm not even asking for parity with Marines at this point. Just some table scraps and some prosthetic limbs to replace the ones they brutally hacked off.

Change in GW will take a long time.
I expect the latest releases were scheduled at the start of the year, and the models have been sat on the warehouse shelves until the books were in sight at the port. Only then will the announcements go out.

But yes, the amount of Marine stuff has been annoying. Most armies get a new boss model, and an semi-upgrade through a campaign book. I have been staying away from both. Eldar are getting new models and a campaign. Nice, but "no thanks".
If we cannot see the end of the release schedule, how many books are we going to have to buy before the new models stop trickling through?

I don't know what old GW was like, but to me their third book was GK, and there was nothing fun or exiting about it. It wasn't good when it came out, and back then there were like 3 other codex out. Seem to me a lot depends on luck with rules.

An eldar player may not care how many imperial or marine stuff comes out, when his army is good to play with. On the other hand a necron player, may question his army choice etc.

I get that people said to wait for the whole cycle to finish, wait for first CA, then FAQs, then second CA, but now that all those books were out, it seems to me, that at least from the stories I heard about other editions, there is really little difference, between now and then. There are huge gaps in power between armies, some armies get multiple updates, even when they don't need them, when others get one book per years. marines are the core of sales, so they get a ton of stuff. there is rules sources bloat, and focus on high price big model kits to build armies, and big armies with lots of models. But again those are not things I know, those are things I was told by people. could false, but if it isn't, then I don't really get why people would be suprised by how the game looks right now.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm really sick of the Marine releases, to the point where I'm likely going to stop playing for a little bit of time.

The first PA book was a sliver of hope that has ultimately failed to excite me, as a non-Marine player.

I'm sick of Marines enjoying all the newest, best looking and most effective models compared to every other faction. I'm sick of marines having 95% of the focus. I'm sick of marines getting releases that overshadow all others.

I brought into the rhetoric GW fed us that things would be different in 8th. That they'd listen to the fanbase. That they were going to spread some of the love of new models. That they would balance models and factions as best they could, rather than on sales figures. It is starting to seem that this was all a load of hot air.

Things have been good, not great, but good. Slowly but surely it seems that GW are falling into old habits though. The new Marine releases are a joke. They are a joke in terms of competitive power. They are a joke in terms of focus. Why do only the blessed factions get sub faction specific codexes, units and models? Why am I expected to just accept that, as a consumer, if I don't play a Marine faction of some sort I will not get consistent, interesting or decent releases?

I appreciate that this is a whiny thread and I apologise for that. The reason I've made this thread is to see if anyone else feels the same and if there is any way to petition GW to change their stance.

I've just got back into 40k after many years out (just reading BL books). Ironically, I played Space Orks (as they were then called) the first time round and now I'm playing Marines! (A custom BA successor chapter)

I can see where you're coming from. I'm hoping the new Sisters of Battle will liven things up. There was no AM when I was playing the first time, so they're interesting. Is the Psychic Awakening not giving the Eldar (sorry, Aeldari and Drukhari) a bit of a push?

I certainly do feel the Primaris marines and their vehicles have been pushed too hard and have been generally overspecced/overpowered.

In that regard, I do feel for players of other factions. I've always loved Craftworld Ulthwe, and if there had been a more balanced push, it's quite possible I would have Black Guardians sitting in my box instead of a winged chaplain and assault marines!

I play IFs as one of my main armies, and I'm sick of marine releases too, to be honest. I'd LOVE to see GW have a bit of faith in its property, and invest the time, rules and models in a wider diversity of factions. Yes, short term, they wouldn't sell so well, but they need to think long term too - widening and diversifying their player base is a very smart move, one that's paid dividends over the years. I don't think it's smart to keep hammering marine releases year on year like they've been doing. And I don't think it's ideal for the community either.

Finally, the other big releases of the year have been mainly Imperial - Knights, Custodians, Sisters. I think they've overcommitted in that direction. It's time for them to swing it back the other way a bit. Aspect warriors and new Necrons. Renegade Guard and Bezerkers. New Boyz and Harlies. Maybe a traitor and inquisition themed release for a while?

Having said all that, I do think that's what we'll see in the near future, now that the Primaris phase-1 release is close to complete. I just think they could have ordered the love better.

Im completely ambivalent to the latest Marine spammage.

Playing devils advocate, Im not sure GW had any choice but to focus on them. They are clearly mothballing OldMarines.
NuMarines as they stood before this release were fairly average to poor.

Hence the spate of new release, upgrades and new rules.

Rumours that there might be a Traitor Guard army in the works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSSGgHWjpU

 Ratius wrote:
Im completely ambivalent to the latest Marine spammage.

Playing devils advocate, Im not sure GW had any choice but to focus on them. They are clearly mothballing OldMarines.
NuMarines as they stood before this release were fairly average to poor.

Hence the spate of new release, upgrades and new rules.

The issue is imo, that GW also managed to annoy alot more groups this time: Xenos, Chaos (especially regular CSM for obvious reasons) and FW army owners.

Additionally the way the Supplelments are handled, this stretched out of (in some cases) dubious quality controll rulewise and you generate the perfect storm for the animosity that was allready there due to underapreciation.

I also brought it up in another thread, but GW seems to not grasp the concept that investing in more armies, even if they initially not sell, is longterm better. (SoB desinvestment cycle and then beeing surprised about their poll is my exemple)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Darian Aarush wrote:
Rumours that there might be a Traitor Guard army in the works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSSGgHWjpU

That would be book 3 then.-Consideirng also the rumor said CSM would get nothing (i do still hope that the traits get fixed but alas)

I'm a bit fed up of the bloat of marine rules, it was something I was initially keen about but the length of time between releases and the power level in the competitive meta isn't something I enjoy.

PA was a nice break but it's been a total flop compared to how pumped up the marine releases are (all of them really) and how poor the boxset and the updated rules are for the Xenos.

It's alienating the fanbase, especially the non-marine or even non-imperium players.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The reason I've made this thread is to see if anyone else feels the same and if there is any way to petition GW to change their stance.

I can answer the first part of that with a firm yes and no for myself.

GW has always come across as the Space Marine company and still do. They're everywhere, get prominent new releases, feature in much of the marketing and in most boxed sets that include two armies one side is Space Marines. In other words, it's hard not to feel like Space Marines are drowning out everything else.

On the other hand, Marines don't get that many more model releases than everyone else. Not in the amount it's often portrayed. The latest Marine release, stretched out as it is, consists of two infantry kits and two vehicle kits. And an endless stream of clampack characters, but more on that in a bit. Just the actual non-character units are by no means excessive for a model release that coincides with a codex. That's moderately sized for GW, and usually only armies that are completely overhauled or entirely new can expect to get more than that.

The difference between Marines and other armies is that GW gives Marines this type of release with every codex, while other armies may only get a book update and their model release comes only with every second or third codex, or is thrown in with a campaign book. It keeps Marines up to date and allows GW to expand and overhaul an already extensive range without much trouble, whereas everyone else gets left behind a little more with every overhaul of the codex. This is in my opinion what people should be tired of, not so much GW giving Marines new models but doing so while consciously allowing other armies to fall so far behind that they couldn't be brought up to date with two of those moderately sized model releases, let alone the single one they may get on occasion.

The things that GW seems to be able to produce effortlessly and with certain caveats for everyone is books and clampack characters. Starting with the latter, Dark Eldar got their big army update in 2010 after waiting for it for twelve years. The range was mostly redone with Covens getting models only after half a year. Since then they got planes, plastic Wracks and clampack characters. Necrons got a considerable model range increase in 2011. Since then they got the Tesseract Vault and clampack characters. Something something Marine Lieutenants, special characters, through the update rush of 8th ed codices where few books got what could be considered a a real model update there was a relatively high number of character releases, and so forth. It genuinely seems like no matter what other production bottlenecks may hold up GW, they don't have trouble throwing out clampack characters.

This is interesting in so far as technically GW does give other armies models, even though they don't actually solve practical problems players have with their range.Using Necrons as an example again, it's been eight years since they got a real army release. That's a long time to wait for something new. On the other hand, they got a new model for every codex since then. This is something I think doesn't usually make it into conversations when Marine overload comes up. There seems to be this weird acknowledgement from GW that armies other than Marines should get new releases as well, but more often than not they end up as token releases and you don't know if you should be happy that you got anything at all or upset that you were basically passed over again while the next Marine codex is sure to hand out new goodies.

The other thing next to clampack characters is books. GW doesn't seem to have trouble rolling out book release after book release. This is where I think Marines legitimately get an excessive amount. Previously it was the Big Four when a single codex for loyalist Marines would have been good enough, then a couple of supplements on top of that, and now we have a book for every loyalist legion. Plus they are of course featured in campaign books. I (obviously) disagree with how Marine rules are spread out over who knows how many publications, but due to my grim outlook on GW's writing and design quality I can't I see why anyone should be envious, upset or tired of the Marine skew in this regard. The only thing more books accomplish is that you have to pay more money to get the same badly designed rules you'd otherwise have concentrated in your codex. More books are simply easy money for GW. They're effortless to produce, are only detrimental to the game's quality because the same number of writers have to produce an increasing number of books, and the background in them is not a noteworthy expansion on the codex in size considering GW has Black Library and lots of authors dedicated to producing fiction. A couple of dozen pages in a supplement will simply not be an increase worth considering. That's before you consider that some of it may be material taken from an older codex or Index Astartes.

So for me it's not so much Marine fatigue because of any substantial model releases but the dormancy of entire model lines that are not Marines that's the problem, and considering that that's been true for as long as I played 40k I don't see any change at this time compared to how it's previously been.

As for the last point of that quote, what more compelling petition than the increasing financial success GW had for the duration of 8th ed can you think of? That's really the problem with new GW compared to old GW. Kirby's GW was in decline and it was certain that if you waited long enough, they simply had to change course and implement change. GW of today is in such a comfortable position that they need not worry about trying to change for the better because what they're doing now is popular as has the revenue to back it up that the only changes they're going to implement are ones that are bad for the consumers.

Karol wrote:
An eldar player may not care how many imperial or marine stuff comes out, when his army is good to play with.

eldars have basically only one competitive build. sure they are in the top but they have many models that aren't playable (aspect warriors, vypers, falcons, warwalkers, phoenix lords, avatar, warlock conclave, wraithlords and wraithknights).

Tyranid Horde wrote:I'm a bit fed up of the bloat of marine rules, it was something I was initially keen about but the length of time between releases and the power level in the competitive meta isn't something I enjoy.

PA was a nice break but it's been a total flop compared to how pumped up the marine releases are (all of them really) and how poor the boxset and the updated rules are for the Xenos.

It's alienating the fanbase, especially the non-marine or even non-imperium players.

whats stupid is that they tried building hype for PA for a month... while they kept releasing supplements. so even when it was the elf's turn to shine, its still all about marines. Also, the powerlevel difference is unbelieveable. marines just get too much free gak compared to other factions, its completely stupid and bound to break somewhere (IH). The more combos you add, the harder it is to spot the problematic ones in development.

I understand the sentiment, but I try to look at it from a positive point: No new stuff for xenos means I don't have to spend any money on new kits. GW is inadvertently saving me a lot of money.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I understand the sentiment, but I try to look at it from a positive point: No new stuff for xenos means I don't have to spend any money on new kits. GW is inadvertently saving me a lot of money.

This is true. It's pretty expensive (and exhausting) being a SM player!

There was a fair bit of love for Mechanicus and Imperial Knights for a bit there.
It helps with riding the Cawl "Mary Sue" wagon-train.

Eldar in general do seem to be coasting, little interesting had happened since way back they got their various aircraft.

Nectrons are up there for not seeing much of anything.

Tau and Orks got a little bit of attention, my friend and his "Kult of Speed" is happier.

I am finding my fun on the rather stagnant line of Imperial Guard because there is so much of the stuff that they dare-not retire.

GW does need to rebrand their true-scale, erhm, "Primaris" marines so they will get a bit more focus for a bit.

I just wish my shelved Grey Knight army could see a bit of the love that the Custodes got.

Chaos is along for the ride, good thing they are like Orks and you can mix old with new and the differing scale and that is all OK due to the "warp" it explains everything.

One major contributing factor is that the game has far too many factions currently, but that's something that people often "think" they want. We're at around...what 26 factions at the moment? And until this Phoenix Awakening release, GW had been sticking to "release a bunch of models for a faction, or none" (and no I don't count a single HQ figure every 2-3 years as a genuine release).

Even if GW tries to cycle through its factions, it can be 2-3-4 years between releases, and I don't even mean new models. Look at Eldar, yeah the book is mediocre outside of a handful of ultra-song units, but the model line is an embarrassment still. I'm not even asking for new units, but rather actual models that can be purchased for the armies that exist.

I think the game would be far better with 10-12 factions which were heavily/frequently supported. If you play a fringe army (Grey Knights, Harlequins, etc.) outside of some rules...do you genuinely think you're even being considered until a major revamp/release? Highly doubtful. Those entire armies were essentially cash grabs so they could sell a few extra kits, another codex and some cards/dice/paraphenalia. GW has realized that new models/kits sell far more than supporting the original codices though, so I don't know when we'll see the wave of new armies stop. Unfortunately for each new army that comes out - you're looking at less and less attention paid to your army.

Example: Eldar Craftworlds range is a mess of metals from 1993, and finecast garbage for a host of their "main" combat units...but instead we'll do an entire range of Harlequin plastics before actually bringing the main Eldar line up to snuff (also we'll give Dark Eldar a - needed - revamp of full plastic in that same time period as well, though they let several units die on the vine in that process). Why? because a "new" army sells better than actual plastic Aspect Warriors or Phoenix Lords or Avatars, etc. This is about sales and nothing more.

The players I feel the worst for are players like Death Guard and Thousand Sons players. Fringe units turned into armies, but new and limited armies. I'll be shocked if we see a new genuine DG or TS model/unit in the next 2-3 years. But then if they do receive new models it'll again be at the sacrifice of Orks, Tau, Tyranids, etc. etc. etc.

It's simply too many factions to keep up to date and pay attention to...but more factions; more books, more sales, etc.

 Elbows wrote:
One major contributing factor is that the game has far too many factions currently, but that's something that people often "think" they want. We're at around...what 26 factions at the moment? And until this Phoenix Awakening release, GW had been sticking to "release a bunch of models for a faction, or none" (and no I don't count a single HQ figure every 2-3 years as a genuine release).

Even if GW tries to cycle through its factions, it can be 2-3-4 years between releases, and I don't even mean new models. Look at Eldar, yeah the book is mediocre outside of a handful of ultra-song units, but the model line is an embarrassment still. I'm not even asking for new units, but rather actual models that can be purchased for the armies that exist.

I think the game would be far better with 10-12 factions which were heavily/frequently supported. If you play a fringe army (Grey Knights, Harlequins, etc.) outside of some rules...do you genuinely think you're even being considered until a major revamp/release? Highly doubtful. Those entire armies were essentially cash grabs so they could sell a few extra kits, another codex and some cards/dice/paraphenalia. GW has realized that new models/kits sell far more than supporting the original codices though, so I don't know when we'll see the wave of new armies stop. Unfortunately for each new army that comes out - you're looking at less and less attention paid to your army.

Example: Eldar Craftworlds range is a mess of metals from 1993, and finecast garbage for a host of their "main" combat units...but instead we'll do an entire range of Harlequin plastics before actually bringing the main Eldar line up to snuff (also we'll give Dark Eldar a - needed - revamp of full plastic in that same time period as well, though they let several units die on the vine in that process). Why? because a "new" army sells better than actual plastic Aspect Warriors or Phoenix Lords or Avatars, etc. This is about sales and nothing more.

The players I feel the worst for are players like Death Guard and Thousand Sons players. Fringe units turned into armies, but new and limited armies. I'll be shocked if we see a new genuine DG or TS model/unit in the next 2-3 years. But then if they do receive new models it'll again be at the sacrifice of Orks, Tau, Tyranids, etc. etc. etc.

It's simply too many factions to keep up to date and pay attention to...but more factions; more books, more sales, etc.

You may be right. All we can really hope at this point is that they are experimenting with these Howling Banshee models and that if they do sell well they'll start considering more older kits to be revamped. I'm extremely tempted to just give all my stuff away and start scouring ebay etc for 90's models anyway at this point though!

Dai wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
One major contributing factor is that the game has far too many factions currently, but that's something that people often "think" they want. We're at around...what 26 factions at the moment? And until this Phoenix Awakening release, GW had been sticking to "release a bunch of models for a faction, or none" (and no I don't count a single HQ figure every 2-3 years as a genuine release).

Even if GW tries to cycle through its factions, it can be 2-3-4 years between releases, and I don't even mean new models. Look at Eldar, yeah the book is mediocre outside of a handful of ultra-song units, but the model line is an embarrassment still. I'm not even asking for new units, but rather actual models that can be purchased for the armies that exist.

I think the game would be far better with 10-12 factions which were heavily/frequently supported. If you play a fringe army (Grey Knights, Harlequins, etc.) outside of some rules...do you genuinely think you're even being considered until a major revamp/release? Highly doubtful. Those entire armies were essentially cash grabs so they could sell a few extra kits, another codex and some cards/dice/paraphenalia. GW has realized that new models/kits sell far more than supporting the original codices though, so I don't know when we'll see the wave of new armies stop. Unfortunately for each new army that comes out - you're looking at less and less attention paid to your army.

Example: Eldar Craftworlds range is a mess of metals from 1993, and finecast garbage for a host of their "main" combat units...but instead we'll do an entire range of Harlequin plastics before actually bringing the main Eldar line up to snuff (also we'll give Dark Eldar a - needed - revamp of full plastic in that same time period as well, though they let several units die on the vine in that process). Why? because a "new" army sells better than actual plastic Aspect Warriors or Phoenix Lords or Avatars, etc. This is about sales and nothing more.

The players I feel the worst for are players like Death Guard and Thousand Sons players. Fringe units turned into armies, but new and limited armies. I'll be shocked if we see a new genuine DG or TS model/unit in the next 2-3 years. But then if they do receive new models it'll again be at the sacrifice of Orks, Tau, Tyranids, etc. etc. etc.

It's simply too many factions to keep up to date and pay attention to...but more factions; more books, more sales, etc.

You may be right. All we can really hope at this point is that they are experimenting with these Howling Banshee models and that if they do sell well they'll start considering more older kits to be revamped. I'm extremely tempted to just give all my stuff away and start scouring ebay etc for 90's models anyway at this point though!

The banshees would be shifting far faster with a better box featuring them though!

I could try to post some lengthy reply, why I agree, but it is a simple as this: I dislike marines and although I get that they are GWs bestseller, the sheer amount of attention they get is rediculous

The players I feel the worst for are players like Death Guard and Thousand Sons players. Fringe units turned into armies, but new and limited armies. I'll be shocked if we see a new genuine DG or TS model/unit in the next 2-3 years. But then if they do receive new models it'll again be at the sacrifice of Orks, Tau, Tyranids, etc. etc. etc.

It's simply too many factions to keep up to date and pay attention to...but more factions; more books, more sales, etc.

Clowns, TSons, and GKs never should have been their own armies. Or they should have done TSons better cause DG got more unique units. Or at least it feels that way.

Clowns have no business being a "full" army. GKs were stretched into one by adding bloat units. Same with DW.

I would have much rather seen an "Imperium Supplement: Inquisition" book that had GKs, DW, and some new inquisition units. But it would be intended to be a supplement to other imperial armies like inq is supposed to be.

Instead though we'll probably get a half assed WD index for inquisition, or they'll get squatted.

I would have much rather seen an "Imperium Supplement: Inquisition" book that had GKs, DW, and some new inquisition units. But it would be intended to be a supplement to other imperial armies like inq is supposed to be.

all this achives that GK units are now never taken, because other options in the same book are either better, better and cheaper, or cheaper.

cmspano wrote:

The players I feel the worst for are players like Death Guard and Thousand Sons players. Fringe units turned into armies, but new and limited armies. I'll be shocked if we see a new genuine DG or TS model/unit in the next 2-3 years. But then if they do receive new models it'll again be at the sacrifice of Orks, Tau, Tyranids, etc. etc. etc.

It's simply too many factions to keep up to date and pay attention to...but more factions; more books, more sales, etc.

Clowns, TSons, and GKs never should have been their own armies. Or they should have done TSons better cause DG got more unique units. Or at least it feels that way.

Clowns have no business being a "full" army. GKs were stretched into one by adding bloat units. Same with DW.

I would have much rather seen an "Imperium Supplement: Inquisition" book that had GKs, DW, and some new inquisition units. But it would be intended to be a supplement to other imperial armies like inq is supposed to be.

Instead though we'll probably get a half assed WD index for inquisition, or they'll get squatted.

This:
THe mainline C:SM chapters should've been in the base codex whilest the real exotic units should've been handled in a supplement.

I quite like Marines. While I do not play them per se as an army, my sons do and I have quite a collections of Marines and Chaos Marines just to paint and display.
What I DON'T like is the slow release of minis and ridiculous rules bloat.

There are just WAAAAAY too many rules now. Chapter Tactics were a fun idea and I like the mechanics of Stratagems. But I feel we have long past the critical mass of just too many of either.
Factions Attributes (like Chapter Tactics) should just be there to add extra flavor, but not be meta defining. And Strats should just be there to give a extra push to a turn or two, not be the defacto strategy required for some most units.

So much of the extra bloat for Marines could easily have been paired down and incorporated in their profiles (2W/2A basic Marines with AP-1 bolters, for example). Primaris could then be S/T5 with Gravis being +1W/T to that. No need for Shock Assualt if everything have the right amount of attacks from the start.
No need for Combat Doctrines if the basic weapon already has the right AP and everything is bumped from there.

Not Online!!! wrote:
This:
THe mainline C:SM chapters should've been in the base codex whilest the real exotic units should've been handled in a supplement.

Agreed

-

Karol wrote:

I would have much rather seen an "Imperium Supplement: Inquisition" book that had GKs, DW, and some new inquisition units. But it would be intended to be a supplement to other imperial armies like inq is supposed to be.

all this achives that GK units are now never taken, because other options in the same book are either better, better and cheaper, or cheaper.

and this changes what to the current state of the GK?

Marines sell well. GW just had an Eldar release, peopled weren't excited and did a lot of complaining.

Karol wrote:

I would have much rather seen an "Imperium Supplement: Inquisition" book that had GKs, DW, and some new inquisition units. But it would be intended to be a supplement to other imperial armies like inq is supposed to be.

all this achives that GK units are now never taken, because other options in the same book are either better, better and cheaper, or cheaper.

GKs sucking is its own issue. They could be in an inquisition book AND be good if they were written better.

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines sell well. GW just had an Eldar release, peopled weren't excited and did a lot of complaining.

Yeah because the eldar release SUCKED.
From the base price of the box and it's contents to questionable design sofar no wonder the Eldar players were annoyed.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm really sick of the Marine releases, to the point where I'm likely going to stop playing for a little bit of time.

The first PA book was a sliver of hope that has ultimately failed to excite me, as a non-Marine player.

I'm sick of Marines enjoying all the newest, best looking and most effective models compared to every other faction. I'm sick of marines having 95% of the focus. I'm sick of marines getting releases that overshadow all others.

I brought into the rhetoric GW fed us that things would be different in 8th. That they'd listen to the fanbase. That they were going to spread some of the love of new models. That they would balance models and factions as best they could, rather than on sales figures. It is starting to seem that this was all a load of hot air.

Things have been good, not great, but good. Slowly but surely it seems that GW are falling into old habits though. The new Marine releases are a joke. They are a joke in terms of competitive power. They are a joke in terms of focus. Why do only the blessed factions get sub faction specific codexes, units and models? Why am I expected to just accept that, as a consumer, if I don't play a Marine faction of some sort I will not get consistent, interesting or decent releases?

I appreciate that this is a whiny thread and I apologise for that. The reason I've made this thread is to see if anyone else feels the same and if there is any way to petition GW to change their stance.

It sounds like you don't necessarily need to take a break from playing so much as just skipping reading marine-centric threads on the internet. Unless your group is largely marine and/or plays on the bleed edge of meta with marines where maybe waiting for the marine supplement dust to settle. Then it might be a good idea to sit out a couple of months of games.

Like it or not, space marines probably make up the lion's share of profit for GW. You can argue the woulda, shoulda, couldas of how to make other factions more popular and maybe they would work. But GW didn't think so and this is where we are at. I think it is also important to think of Primaris as a whole new faction rather than space marines. I also think far too many players group all space marines (Loyalists, Chaos, Grey Knights, etc.) as one faction making it seem as if they got two major releases this year (Loyalist and Chaos) when they really didn't. I am not saying you are, but I sometimes get that impression.

I think GW is working on trying to work on all factions and trying to balance they game as best they can. It is easy to forget that a few months ago basically one load-out for Intercessors and Agressors were really the only units that were good for Primaris with most of their units being kinda subpar. Even now, several Primaris units are still lacking outside some niche things they can do. All the concern over Iron Hands has almost nothing to do with the new models added (Feiros not withstanding) but the rules. The game has a system in place to deal with it. It doesn't look like the FAQ got it smoothed out, but perhaps the CA will.

I don't think the new marines are a joke in that they are too powerful. I only do a little better with the new codex. There probably is some really good stuff in the new rules, but I am still playing the same army I was playing before it more or less. I play a nicely painted army of the units I want to play. I try my best, but I am not overly concerned about winning. I don't think 40k is the kind of game to get too worked up about winning and losing because player ability to affect that on the table is some much less than most of the other games I play. I am certainly a terrible player but even if I played very well and had average dice rolls, there are match ups that I will lose nearly every game in 40k. I just don't see the need to get worked up about a game that can do that. And that sort of thing isn't going to be fixed by some Dakka threads or a petition.

The only way that marines aren't going to be the focus is if there is a large and sustained amount of money going into buying non-marine product. I am not going to argue the whys that isn't happening. I know there are several reasons already. I am just saying that GW would need to see enough money to remove the inertia they have to start to expand other faction ranges at the pace that they do with space marines. I think these models are coming anyways. Just at a slower pace.

Again, I think you are getting worked up about something you have no control over (nor does anyone else here). I think avoiding all the space marine threads might be the best course of action. Barring that, try to focus on the positive of things. A little bit of complaining/griping is fine, but the posts of yours I remember are ones endlessly complaining about how bad the Orks have it and how great the marines have it. There is some truth to that, but there is also a bit of greener pastures too. So try and remember what you like about the hobby rather than fixating on what you don't. This is supposed to be fun. If it isn't, you are doing it wrong.

cmspano wrote:

Karol wrote:

I would have much rather seen an "Imperium Supplement: Inquisition" book that had GKs, DW, and some new inquisition units. But it would be intended to be a supplement to other imperial armies like inq is supposed to be.

all this achives that GK units are now never taken, because other options in the same book are either better, better and cheaper, or cheaper.

GKs sucking is its own issue. They could be in an inquisition book AND be good if they were written better.

That is a lighting striking twice scenario I think. Stil with the rule of 3, it would mean that GK players would have to buy a ton of new models. Unless GW left strikes and termintors and cut out paladins and interceptors. But then they would really have to overload the GK with rules. To make a 21pts or 46pts troops option valid, when a 12-13pts marine is considered costing too much. not impossible, but would require a IH treatment.

Yeah because the eldar release SUCKED.

yeah the tax of 3 bad units, one units everyone will have, and models duplicated from other boxs and start collecting sets, was kind of a too much. Maybe if the vyper/falcon were free, but they already almost free on 2ed hand market.


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I don't think the new marines are a joke in that they are too powerful. I only do a little better with the new codex. There probably is some really good stuff in the new rules, but I am still playing the same army I was playing before it more or less. I play a nicely painted army of the units I want to play. I try my best, but I am not overly concerned about winning. I don't think 40k is the kind of game to get too worked up about winning and losing because player ability to affect that on the table is some much less than most of the other games I play.

you know this is so many "ifs" to not worry, it is hard to describe. So to not worry you not only have to have enough money to play multiple armies, maybe even games, but also paint your models, and play in a place where no one cares about winning. That is a lot of things that have to happen in a playgroup to make the whole thing work.

Now I understand if someone played w40k for 30+ years, waiting 6 or 12 months ain't much. But if someone plays for a year or just started hearing that they now have to learn to love to paint, and wait months for stuff to maybe fix itself is mighty discouraging.

I see the Whaaaaaag is back, I think of it like this yes the marine release has been overstretched but chances are that it has been done so because they simply have nothing else ready to release.

If the marines had been released over a shorter period chances are they would have just been filler stuff released from AoS or warcry or some other game nobody cares about.

Less marine releases do not mean more of other releases, strictly speaking marines to a point subsidised the other factions that make less money which is pretty much all of them outside Tau.

If marines are not released it's just as likely another random filler game will be put out if they think it will make more money than orks for example.