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I haven't gone out and gotten models since roughly 4E. I recent went back and bought a pack of CSM and was very unpleasantly surprised to find that everything had to fit together in just the same manner as was shown in the instruction manual and on on the example models on the box. Is this a thing across the board or just so happens to be like this for modern CSMs? If the case is that it's across the board, I'd love to hear some ideas for a new model series to pick up, because I would not buy them again.

The torsos and legs for CSM are pretty much "by the box". Otherwise, everything else I've tinkered with is still very modular.

Even a lot of Primaris and Old Marines stuff is compatible.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
The torsos and legs for CSM are pretty much "by the box". Otherwise, everything else I've tinkered with is still very modular.

Even a lot of Primaris and Old Marines stuff is compatible.

So it's something that is pretty exclusive for CSM? Good man, almost had a hard attack that they were trying to cheap out or dumb it down for something. Appreciate the quick answer!

 Nightwalker wrote:
So it's something that is pretty exclusive for CSM? Good man, almost had a hard attack that they were trying to cheap out or dumb it down for something. Appreciate the quick answer!

The ones in Shadowspear are very monopose, but there's a little bit you can do. The new boxes, they actually are a lot more versatile. It just annoys me that out of 10 marines you only get 8 bolters.

I think that the more detail they're able to get into models now comes with a certain tradeoff in pose ability. However they can still be kitbashed and converted as before, and the details make it worth it in my opinion.

Pre-determined poses have been a thing for years and it's not exlusively a CSM feature. Like said above, it is not entirely a bad thing because it allows models to have more details, better poses and it usually hides the seams effectively.

One could rank the plastic kits by complexity:
Easy-to-build: One way to build, no glue required (Shadespire warbands, Dark Imperium models etc)
One-way-to-build: One way to build but glue required, no poseability, exotic part cuts (Shadowspear CSM, clampack character models)
Limited-ways-to-build: Limited number of builds with some options (CSM, Plague Marines - most new kits fall upon this category)
Multiple-ways-to-build: A kit with lots of interchangeable parts and posing options (most old kits)

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I think that the more detail they're able to get into models now comes with a certain tradeoff in pose ability. However they can still be kitbashed and converted as before, and the details make it worth it in my opinion.

Very true and very worth it. Definitely like the newer kits with the better poses and details.

Confession:

It's all my fault. It's me. It's been me, this whole time. I did it.

...I buy Primaris Lieutenants. Every single one of them. Even the ones specific to Chapters. I even got the Space Wolf with the axe. Special Edition ones, too.

I... I buy them, and... I take their kits and convert them to Deathwatch. I can't help it, I just wanted a squad of Primaris guys that were all unique and distinctive.

But you either get 'cool dynamic poses' or 'super-customizable and interchangeable multi-part kit'. Sometimes you can find a good balance between the two, and the CSM kit is a good 50/50.

Also don't forget a lot of models now actually have functional shoulders rather than massive ball-sockets. Plus many of the models in the past still had fixed legs and body cores. I think that as GW has improved the sculpting some of the options have reduced in some model lines. However at the same time the overall detail has gone up and the style has also become different and more appeasing. You can really tell this when you compare some of the really old models to the new. Compare, for example, the original rat ogres for Skaven with the monopose pair that came in Island of Blood (and which I hope we might one say see sold again or resculpted alon the same lines). The new ones are by far and away superior sculpts, even if they are totally monopose.


Plus I found that in the past many of the options in posing would sitll result in a fairly uniform appearance over a large unit, there were only so many sensible posing positions.



Of course some armies still retain the ball socket approach such as Tyranids; but as a Xenos species they can get away with it. Even if they aren't insects you can see on this close up of a hornet where the antenna connects to the head there's the same ball-socket visible on the outside.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4112/4979501986_0e3e162b65_b.jpg

If you were skilled enough and wanted too you could use paint/very fine greenstuff work to achieve a similar textured "muscle connection point" surface over the tyranid joints

It's easy enough to use monopose minis with parts from the multipart kits to mix things up. The reduction of options in the design/datasheet is a far bigger problem. Take the Primaris Captain - MS stalker or bolt rifle with option for power sword, or Powerfist and Plasma Pistol. Gravis Captain? Zero options.

 John Prins wrote:
It's easy enough to use monopose minis with parts from the multipart kits to mix things up. The reduction of options in the design/datasheet is a far bigger problem. Take the Primaris Captain - MS stalker or bolt rifle with option for power sword, or Powerfist and Plasma Pistol. Gravis Captain? Zero options.

I sat bored one day, and wrote out every weapon Space Marines have used in the past. Not just the trusty bolter and its variants, but things like rotorcannons and Volkite weapons and the like.

Needless to say, what we got nowadays is a sad fraction- especially for Primaris marines.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
It's easy enough to use monopose minis with parts from the multipart kits to mix things up. The reduction of options in the design/datasheet is a far bigger problem. Take the Primaris Captain - MS stalker or bolt rifle with option for power sword, or Powerfist and Plasma Pistol. Gravis Captain? Zero options.

I sat bored one day, and wrote out every weapon Space Marines have used in the past. Not just the trusty bolter and its variants, but things like rotorcannons and Volkite weapons and the like.

Needless to say, what we got nowadays is a sad fraction- especially for Primaris marines.

Mostly because Imperial Plasma got so good. It went from 'good but dangerous' to 'good in safe mode, fantastic in dangerous mode, but you can mitigate the drawback fairly easily'. There's very little reason for marines to use anything but plasma and lascannons where they have the option.

The trick is GW changes the 'good' weapon from edition to edition. Gone are the days of rending assault cannons or grav spam.

True. Not many options now but you still have imagination!

I bought most Necromunda gangs and they're all mostly "by the box"

You can swap heads on...some figures...
And shoulder pads...maybe on some...
What more do you need?!?!?!

I would argue that how many individual options are you really going to be able to make anyway? Without cutting, kitbashing and converting, which you can do with the monopose kits anyway.

This is absolutely the direction GW is going, get used to it.

This is the direction GW is going to go and it partly comes down to competitive gaming. If you think of the models as game pieces, then in order to effectively write rules for the game, you need to know what each game piece looks [see forum posting rules] and what base size it comes with.

For example, the new Primaris Kayveen Shrike model is balanced on top of a huge stack of rubble, and when playtesting the model, they will balance and create rules using that rubble stack for LoS purposes. I'm sure many with forgo the stack but that then changes the dynamics of the game. Then consider those who build "tall" carnifex models that stand upright, or elongate their stormravens. Or custom models entirely. Suddenly a whole lot has changed in the substance of the game that the rules simply cant account for.

So yes, where possible GW are going to go with monopose minis.