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Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




There was still no Thread for this.

Kill Team: Annual 2019

Love Kill Team? Then make sure to get yourself the Kill Team Annual 2019! This rules supplement is like Chapter Approved, but for Kill Team, bringing together points updates, content previously only printed in White Dwarf and brand-new rules for another great year of skirmish gaming.

Try the Adepta Sororitas, gear up your Heretic Astartes with new guns, forge a narrative with dozens of missions – this gaming toolbox is packed with resources that’ll make your battles more fun however you prefer to play.



-Adepta Sororitas Rules
-WD-Rules
-New Options for Traitor Marines

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/24/coming-soon-blood-of-baal-battleforces-and-beyond/

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/11/26 17:12:59


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Sadly, this comes out the day before the tournament I am organizing. I am undecided on how to handle the items introduced here, or changes made here, for this tournament.

Though I am quite excited to get rules for Sisters of Battle.

Henry R. 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission




Tacoma, WA, USA

The "smart" thing is to say no Kill Team Annual. That way nobody has to learn anything new or fear a change in the points of their list. Kinda sucks to have to leave that new content to the side, but it is the most efficient route since otherwise you have to assume everyone gets the book on release day and spends the day reading the rules and adjusting their list.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Couldn't find enough reason to get either Commanders or Elites, but being as I've missed out on White Dwarf most of the year, this makes a lot of sense.

Interested to know what the new material will be.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Nottingham, England

I missed out on Commanders and Elites also, although I think I'll pick this up for everything else I missed out on. Doh!
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Jolly bringer of death and suspensions






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Some of the upcoming content has been previewed in this article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/26/adepta-sororitas-kill-team-sightedgw-homepage-post-2/

Be ash and cinder forevermore!

V - 11 | T - 3 | 敗 - 40

DakkaDakka | Where you thank the mods for baning you! 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




Oh so they're actually giving heretic astartes some weapon options? Call me when I can use raptors.

Love the basic rules. Hate the treatment of heretic astartes.
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





I thought they had given up on KT. I mean we got a release schedule that raped wallets then nothing for months.

   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




We can expect that next Year, we get a second Annual Book minimum, before GW would drop KT....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/26 19:28:51


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I don't really think Kill Team is going anywhere, but they probably won't get as many dedicated releases as the first rollout from here on out.

Really a few releases (things like campaigns and kill zones) a year + points and rules updates would be sufficient to keep it fresh in my opinion.

It's also a nice place to release some of the weirder stuff like Rogue Trader should they desire to keep doing that.

   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Sentient Void

Once GW successfully destroys any chance of Aeronautic Imperials having any sustainability they can turn their attention to producing more Space Marine related content and price reductions in 40k to ensure that the rest of their specialty games get flushed down the toilet in 2020. This will set the stage for an early 2021 9th edition reset (they lied about the sustainability of 8th of course). I am very thankful for all the good things in life and wish you all a happy holidays.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/26 22:07:08


Please note all future and recent-past anti-model posts on all forums come from having too many unpainted models 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Jolly bringer of death and suspensions






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Kindly stay on topic and leave the politics, as per site rules, out of it please.

Be ash and cinder forevermore!

V - 11 | T - 3 | 敗 - 40

DakkaDakka | Where you thank the mods for baning you! 
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit






Across the Rubicon

By the sounds of it, I look forward to having the option of switching out my heavy bolter CSM for a missile launcher, or dare I say, an autocannon. Throw in some chain/power axe options for the aspiring champion I will be content enough.

It will also be nice to have those out of the way factions in one place for ease of reference. I suppose including the Ambull in nice, but when your Chaos Terminator kill team has already fought a Dimachaeron it does seem a little underwhelming. I guess not every Kill Team group has given that a go and probably want a little more assurance than, "Sounds awesome. Let's have at it!"

   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Are those Kroot models new?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




No, just a more vibrant paint job and better lighting.

The kroot hound in particular is a lot more green, and someone decided to actually do detail on the neck.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/27 04:06:41


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





Ah, Kill Team. It promised so much and delivered to us... everything we pretty much already had.

I'll never stop seeing KT as a lazy cash-grab. Sure, I'm a fan of skirmish games and stuff that lasts ~30 minutes to play without a huge financial investment.

But Kill Team could have been so much more.

I'm still holding out for a proper skirmish game. I wish GW would look at what N17 did right and replicate that into a new Shadow War game.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in ru
Regular Dakkanaut





 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Ah, Kill Team. It promised so much and delivered to us... everything we pretty much already had.

I'll never stop seeing KT as a lazy cash-grab. Sure, I'm a fan of skirmish games and stuff that lasts ~30 minutes to play without a huge financial investment.

But Kill Team could have been so much more.

I'm still holding out for a proper skirmish game. I wish GW would look at what N17 did right and replicate that into a new Shadow War game.

Took words right out of my mouth. I was so excited to see D10 next to minis in killteam teasers... In my naivety I've imagined that GW was going to change system to D10 for more granuality between weapons and armour. Then we get mini-40k, but not really with extremely shallow rules (for skirmish). Getting a flat -1 for having a pinky toe in cover, one-man army commanders... Bleh.

SW:A had a lot of design mistakes, but it had a lot of heart. With N17 alternative/group activations it could be an amazing skirmish.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/27 07:32:44


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Nay, N17 40k would be lame.

Let's hope more many Years of KT releases.
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





 JawRippa wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Ah, Kill Team. It promised so much and delivered to us... everything we pretty much already had.

I'll never stop seeing KT as a lazy cash-grab. Sure, I'm a fan of skirmish games and stuff that lasts ~30 minutes to play without a huge financial investment.

But Kill Team could have been so much more.

I'm still holding out for a proper skirmish game. I wish GW would look at what N17 did right and replicate that into a new Shadow War game.

Took words right out of my mouth. I was so excited to see D10 next to minis in killteam teasers... In my naivety I've imagined that GW was going to change system to D10 for more granuality between weapons and armour. Then we get mini-40k, but not really with extremely shallow rules (for skirmish). Getting a flat -1 for having a pinky toe in cover, one-man army commanders... Bleh.

SW:A had a lot of design mistakes, but it had a lot of heart. With N17 alternative/group activations it could be an amazing skirmish.


I agree 100% All I ever really wanted out of KT was a campaign system.. Necromuda Lite... But instead we got elites. and Commanders. and meh.......... It's fun for what it is, but it coulda been so much more.

   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

bfdhud wrote:
 JawRippa wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Ah, Kill Team. It promised so much and delivered to us... everything we pretty much already had.

I'll never stop seeing KT as a lazy cash-grab. Sure, I'm a fan of skirmish games and stuff that lasts ~30 minutes to play without a huge financial investment.

But Kill Team could have been so much more.

I'm still holding out for a proper skirmish game. I wish GW would look at what N17 did right and replicate that into a new Shadow War game.

Took words right out of my mouth. I was so excited to see D10 next to minis in killteam teasers... In my naivety I've imagined that GW was going to change system to D10 for more granuality between weapons and armour. Then we get mini-40k, but not really with extremely shallow rules (for skirmish). Getting a flat -1 for having a pinky toe in cover, one-man army commanders... Bleh.

SW:A had a lot of design mistakes, but it had a lot of heart. With N17 alternative/group activations it could be an amazing skirmish.


I agree 100% All I ever really wanted out of KT was a campaign system.. Necromuda Lite... But instead we got elites. and Commanders. and meh.......... It's fun for what it is, but it coulda been so much more.

How is the current Killteam campaign system different from Necromunda?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Apple Peel wrote:
How is the current Killteam campaign system different from Necromunda?
It's been a while, but I think KT just uses a basic experience system where every model using the same data sheet/group levels up simultaneously - there is a small ability tree that grants them new bonuses. There's no real campaign system at all. No deaths, injuries, items, skills, capturing enemy units, fighting over territory, champions, or even individuality. Just a roster, more or less.

I think KT would benefit by taking a page out of Warcry's book - battleplan cards (with ravaged lands-like terrain cards), a simple campaign system, and alternating activations. The battleplan cards and campaign system could easily be built on top of existing KT as an expansion.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

 Sqorgar wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
How is the current Killteam campaign system different from Necromunda?
It's been a while, but I think KT just uses a basic experience system where every model using the same data sheet/group levels up simultaneously - there is a small ability tree that grants them new bonuses. There's no real campaign system at all. No deaths, injuries, items, skills, capturing enemy units, fighting over territory, champions, or even individuality. Just a roster, more or less.

I think KT would benefit by taking a page out of Warcry's book - battleplan cards (with ravaged lands-like terrain cards), a simple campaign system, and alternating activations. The battleplan cards and campaign system could easily be built on top of existing KT as an expansion.

I think you should look at it again. The KT campaign system definitely does have a resource system, deaths, and injuries. Individuality? What do you mean by that? I’m quite sure a lot of people have their dudes with their own fluff and converted/kitbashed models. There is an ability tree for each specialist type. Tell me what you mean by champions. I could view a Tier 3 or 4 specialist as a kind of champion. What do you by skills? There are various tactics unlocked by different specialists as they level up that can be used through command points.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







In Necromunda, you can level up each stat individually as well as buying skills that are similar in effect to the kill team tier tactics, except you dont need command points to use them. Champions are similar in nature to specialists, I that they have the easiest access to skills. I think the main difference between the games is the limitations in weaponry that are imposed in Necromunda. Kill Team manages this by imposing weapon choice limitations on the troop selection process.

The other main difference is that in Necromunda you can have matches between gangs that are fundamentally different power levels. The game and the missions are not really intended to be super balanced, while kill team is obviously much more finely tuned (well as far as GW ever does) for match and tournament play.

I think the kill team campaign is more true to a formal military force with access to standardized resources, and with troops pretty much at peak performance. Necromunda is very much trying to get your lowest of the low scum to survive just long enough for them to be a bit less than awful


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Apple Peel wrote:
I think you should look at it again. The KT campaign system definitely does have a resource system, deaths, and injuries. Individuality? What do you mean by that? I’m quite sure a lot of people have their dudes with their own fluff and converted/kitbashed models. There is an ability tree for each specialist type. Tell me what you mean by champions. I could view a Tier 3 or 4 specialist as a kind of champion. What do you by skills? There are various tactics unlocked by different specialists as they level up that can be used through command points.
Like I said, it has been a while. I've never actually played Kill Team in campaign mode. So let me instead focus on how Necromunda does it.

By individuality, I was under the impression that models of the same type leveled up together in KT. In Necromunda, each model levels up individually by spending experience points (gained from accomplishing goals in the mission and for making enemy models go out of action) to do things like raise their stats or learn new skills. In Necromunda, there's a bunch of different abilities for each skill type, so Brawn and net you headbutt or hurl while Agility has stuff that allows you to leap or climb easier. Each faction (and each type of model) has different primary and secondary skills. So Cawdor can't learn any skills from Cunning or Shooting, but Combat is (usually) a primary skill set.

Most Necromunda gangs are split into four categories: leaders, champions, gangers, and juves. The juves are inexperienced versions that can grow stronger easier and graduate into a Champion. Champions and leaders have the ability to activate nearby units alongside them, and have the leadership skillset as a primary. Gangers level up randomly and in a more limited way, but can be turned into a specialist which allows them to select their upgrades like the leaders/champions/juves. After missions, your gang can also visit the trading post to buy new equipment, including rare items like special weapons, bomb rats, gold plated guns, animal companions, bionics (to correct your model's spinal or head injuries), and even hire non-combatants like doctors.

Kill Team doesn't really have that kind of detail. The campaign rules are printed on 4 pages compared to the 31 pages that Necromunda's Uprising campaign takes (and Uprising is just one of four different campaign systems too). I don't think KT needs to be quite as expansive as Necromunda, but the campaign system seems like the bare minimum.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Like many of you I forgot to pick up Commanders and Elites, yet I'll somehow find a way to pick this up. My D&D kids have expressed interest in 40K and this seems like the simple gateway...

Like many more of you, I wished Kill Team was more than it was. Seems it was a lazy attempt to merge 8E with some of the stuff in SWA--which surprised GW with its popularity. I too would love to see 40K skirmish mixed with N17 in a true successor to Rogue Trader, but I'd settle for a 40K version of Warhammer Underworlds.
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

In KT, you have Commanders (HQ), Leaders (Sergeants), Specialists, and Fire Teams.

Fire Teams are “grunts” that do gain experience and skills as a group. Mostly because most grunts are next to worthless when it comes to taking other models out of action, and would be hard pressed to ever level individually. I think they have one list to choose from.

Specialists gain experience individually, and gain skills from their tree. Same with Leaders, and probably Commanders.

Competitively, the points increase for specialists that level tend to cripple standard 100 point teams. Less of an issue if your group escalated points between matches or stages of a campaign, but if you stick to 100 point matches, you wind up in situations where some 5-man teams *can’t* field more than 4 models at a time. In practice, that should be a limiting factor for a typical 7-10 man team to lose a model but like all things GW, doesn’t scale evenly.

For me, KT is a fast pickup game, and I like it for that. I can play a few games in a couple hours, change teams, have fully painted “armies” to play with. While the games are usually close and exciting, they’re also quick so a bad beat at the end of a game is easy to brush off and start a new game sort of thing.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/28/kill-team-choose-your-specialist-subjectgw-homepage-post-4/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kkillteam271119
Ha! Will you look at that!

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






The conversion tips are top notch. Buy a Forge World Squat to get an ammo box for your Killteam Grey Knight...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dryaktylus wrote:
The conversion tips are top notch. Buy a Forge World Squat to get an ammo box for your Killteam Grey Knight...
Let them eat cake!
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





 Apple Peel wrote:
How is the current Killteam campaign system different from Necromunda?


Necromunda is an actual campaign. Wider variety of scenarios, wargear, advancements, expanding your roster, consequences, advantages to taking a particular territory/racket, etc. There's strategy to who you challenge, what you take, and what you build.

Kill Team's campaign is "don't lose, add an ability to a guy after a few games". It's a sad imitation at best.

Comparing the two campaigns is like comparing a massive buffet to a few packets of crackers and cheese on a table.
 Flinty wrote:
II think the kill team campaign is more true to a formal military force with access to standardized resources, and with troops pretty much at peak performance. Necromunda is very much trying to get your lowest of the low scum to survive just long enough for them to be a bit less than awful


A ganger that hits you on a 2+ isn't what I'd call awful, considering the guard regularly utilizes house Van Saar for their skillset. The underhive isn't a bunch of talentless scrubs barely getting by- we have actual comparisons to things like Guardsmen in the books (guard vets gone rogue, Ogryn, etc.)

 Apple Peel wrote:
I think you should look at it again. The KT campaign system definitely does have a resource system, deaths, and injuries. Individuality? What do you mean by that? I’m quite sure a lot of people have their dudes with their own fluff and converted/kitbashed models. There is an ability tree for each specialist type. Tell me what you mean by champions. I could view a Tier 3 or 4 specialist as a kind of champion. What do you by skills? There are various tactics unlocked by different specialists as they level up that can be used through command points.


Considering that Kill Team restricts you to toys that are in a specific box, and your individual units are nothing but a stat line from 40k- no, it's a trash-tier imitiation. A joke. A "Campaign" that some intern probably scribbled up in an afternoon.

I promise you, if I sit you down and we play Necromunda, you will feel a sting on your cheek, because that'd be the slap in the face that Kill Team's campaign is.

Kill Team is 40k lite. That's it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RazorEdge wrote:
Nay, N17 40k would be lame.

Let's hope more many Years of KT releases.


Yeah, it's lame if you're really into dumbed-down 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Apple Peel wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/28/kill-team-choose-your-specialist-subjectgw-homepage-post-4/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kkillteam271119
Ha! Will you look at that!


You're joking, right? This is you saying it's like Necromunda?

I have a dude in my gang right now that can dual-wield pistols, and he ignores a point of cover. He's got two Autopistols, and I've got every possible type of nasty round you can add- frag, rad, phosphor, manstopper, and normal- and he's got suppressors on them, because that actually matters. He's also got a las-carbine, just in case. Additionally, he has rad grenades, flash grenades, smoke grenades. He has carapace armor, an armored undersuit, a camo-cloak, nightvision goggles,

Essentially, in the dark, you can't even see him but he can see you at 12". If he doesn't move, even if you get close you're at a penalty to shoot him. And if he shoots you, you can't see him when he does because he has suppressors. And he's got a nasty mix of grenades, to shred your toughness, make himself smoked (so you can't see him, but he can see you), and he's got decent enough armor to survive.

This is ONE model. One individual guy.

If you wanted Kill Team to even compare, okay- then I'd be able to put together a Space Marine, in Phobos Armor, with an Astartes Shotgun and paired chainswords, and select every type of grenade he's got. I'd be able to grab a marine in Gravis armor, load him up with a converted rotorcannon, and select a specific loadout and skill to make him an effective overwatch gunner to cover avenues of approach- and it's more than a 'cool looking model', all of those choices matter. Each model is more than just something yanked out of a 40k squad, they're kitted up in detail with wargear that actually makes a difference in the game, and doesn't need to be 'allowed' in another game to use it.

A few pictures of yanked-from-the-box marines, nothing more than a copy/pasted stat-line... that someone bothered to name and pick a few basic skills for is about as weak a comparison as I've ever seen. Necromunda isn't just cosmetic kitbashing. You might need that skill, especially if you want black market weapons. And some of the hangers-on. Necromunda had no support for years, well over a decade- and people still kept the game alive until N17 happened. Kill Team only has support because they can keep shoving 40k units down into it, with a slightly modified data sheet- it's literally the crumbs of a larger game.

Necromunda is objectively a superior game. Kill Team is just a step above Warcry.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/11/28 17:03:13


"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
 
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