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2017/05/18 22:37:35
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
As for vehicles, they did allow TACTICS but the main gameplay bonus was maneuvering! That's what the different facings where for, that's what STUNNED and WEAPON DESTROYED where for.
There will now be a large loss of those awesome moments where your single surviving Guardsmen takes out a charging Chaos Defiler with a missile launcher.
Well, sure... but they've been replaced by those awesome moments where your single surviving Chimera does a backflip and kicks the Daemon Prince in the danglies, so ... woo!
Nobody remember the history of that Land Raider possesed by his own Machine Spirit that killed hundreds of Orks yelling "FOR THE EMPEROR!" with his speakers? It ended killing the Ork Warboss when he open itsellf simulating his "death", and after the Orks enter to loot him, he just closed the door and exploded.
Pedro Kantor recovered his registry and now the Crimson Fist have it as a Empire Hero.
My guess is that it will be either T8 with a 2+ save or T9 with a 3+ save. I'm guessing between 15 and 18 wounds (it's got to outclass the Russ's 12 wounds).
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
As for vehicles, they did allow TACTICS but the main gameplay bonus was maneuvering! That's what the different facings where for, that's what STUNNED and WEAPON DESTROYED where for.
There will now be a large loss of those awesome moments where your single surviving Guardsmen takes out a charging Chaos Defiler with a missile launcher.
Well, sure... but they've been replaced by those awesome moments where your single surviving Chimera does a backflip and kicks the Daemon Prince in the danglies, so ... woo!
More like "the severely wounded Daemon prince, down on his hands and knees trying to recover from the wounds he has suffered, looks up just in time to see the bright spotlight of a chimera, right before it ground him in to the mud".
This will be a rare occurrence, but makes for an awesome moment.
Normally the chimera will crash in to him, only to be ripped apart.
Edit: oh dear, it looks like I just became a shill for Forge the Narrative™.
Probably because I have a great imagination
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 22:44:05
2017/05/18 22:41:31
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Are you actually taking a piss right now? Tanks were spammed in 7th? Not MC's, not GC's, not psykers/bikes/jetbikes/grav centurions, but tanks? Are we at calling black white point already?
BTW, nice "ur wrong im right" argument.
You ok bud you seem upset.
it took vehicles becoming literally free for them to be used in any sort of non dicking around setting.
what on earth are you even on about.
So do you care to explain how this has anything to do whith facings and why should ar ork battlewagon or leman russ be as hard to damage from the front as from the rear?
2017/05/18 22:41:33
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
lol, I'm just here wondering if anyone complaining about vehicle spam actually played during the great Rhino rush era..
Either way I fully expect the normal
*cry cry cry*
*new edition comes out*
*buys it and plays while complaining*
*new edition announced*
*cry cry cry*
*repeat*
After watching so many editions come and go, it really is the same cycle over and over.
Are you actually taking a piss right now? Tanks were spammed in 7th? Not MC's, not GC's, not psykers/bikes/jetbikes/grav centurions, but tanks? Are we at calling black white point already?
BTW, nice "ur wrong im right" argument.
You ok bud you seem upset.
it took vehicles becoming literally free for them to be used in any sort of non dicking around setting.
what on earth are you even on about.
So do you care to explain how this has anything to do whith facings and why should ar ork battlewagon or leman russ be as hard to damage from the front as from the rear?
To be fair, by fluff standards Ork anything looks like it's about to fall apart basically all the time, so why should it have any armor value?
2017/05/18 22:44:39
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
Currently most played: Silent Death, Mars Code Aurora, Battletech, Warcrow and Infinity.
2017/05/18 22:46:05
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Are you actually taking a piss right now? Tanks were spammed in 7th? Not MC's, not GC's, not psykers/bikes/jetbikes/grav centurions, but tanks? Are we at calling black white point already? BTW, nice "ur wrong im right" argument.
You ok bud you seem upset.
it took vehicles becoming literally free for them to be used in any sort of non dicking around setting.
what on earth are you even on about.
So do you care to explain how this has anything to do whith facings and why should ar ork battlewagon or leman russ be as hard to damage from the front as from the rear?
The game as a whole is an abstraction in the first place.
and even then there is literally nothing important on the back side of an ork battle wagon why is shoot there is much easier when there is nothing vital. same with a chimera, if anything shooting and penning the back armor should be killing crew and passenger.
why is the land raider so hard to shoot in back armor when literally the massive exhaust is exposed and exceptionally susceptible to potatoes (grenades).
It adds nothing to the game except arbitrary weaknesses allows for stupid arguments and situations.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/18 22:47:12
RedSarge wrote: Wowza, they're some serious anger being thrown around here!
I mean 'text' anger, but still the temperature is getting up.
As for vehicles, they did allow TACTICS but the main gameplay bonus was maneuvering! That's what the different facings where for, that's what STUNNED and WEAPON DESTROYED where for.
There will now be a large loss of those awesome moments where your single surviving Guardsmen takes out a charging Chaos Defiler with a missile launcher.
With these new rules you have to take something down to a low wound count before using one of your "Damage X" weapons.
It sucks. That's opinion on them, I feel the studio dropped the ball on that one and didn't turn on the landing lights when it came time to land.
@Vyrce: Since when where the vehicle rules considered bloat? Damn, I've played 4 editions of 40k and never heard someone say that the vehicle rules are unnecessary.
But why improve things when you can just throw them out, eh?
It's 5th Edition all over again!
A missle launcher can't kill a defiler in a single shot from full...unless you mean immobilize, which is just as lame for the Defiler owner as it is cool for the Guardsmen. And no, you fire all of you Damage X weapons at high HP targets so you don't waste damage and use your Damage 1 weapons on troops, yunno, like tactics.
And for the record, I've heard plenty of people talk about how certain vehicles rules are stupid and how AV sucked and everything should have toughness instead on this very forum.
2017/05/18 22:48:26
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
Gimgamgoo wrote: My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
So which of these are in the wrong scale?...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/05/18 22:49:11
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
MLaw wrote: lol, I'm just here wondering if anyone complaining about vehicle spam actually played during the great Rhino rush era..
Either way I fully expect the normal
*cry cry cry*
*new edition comes out*
*buys it and plays while complaining*
*new edition announced*
*cry cry cry*
*repeat*
After watching so many editions come and go, it really is the same cycle over and over.
I played during the Rhino Rush era but it wasn't a popular tactic locally.
2017/05/18 22:50:11
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Are you actually taking a piss right now? Tanks were spammed in 7th? Not MC's, not GC's, not psykers/bikes/jetbikes/grav centurions, but tanks? Are we at calling black white point already?
BTW, nice "ur wrong im right" argument.
You ok bud you seem upset.
it took vehicles becoming literally free for them to be used in any sort of non dicking around setting.
what on earth are you even on about.
So do you care to explain how this has anything to do whith facings and why should ar ork battlewagon or leman russ be as hard to damage from the front as from the rear?
To be fair, by fluff standards Ork anything looks like it's about to fall apart basically all the time, so why should it have any armor value?
That's not really an argument. There are a ton of occations where fluff specifies the quality of vehicle's armor. They even make a big deal about land raider being equally well-armored from all sides, and that's not going into all the imperial armor content.
2017/05/18 22:55:35
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
Gimgamgoo wrote: My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
Personally I'll argue that the ones in "wrong scale" are the old marines.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 23:01:00
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
Gimgamgoo wrote: My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
So which of these are in the wrong scale?...
Speaking as a 6'5" individual, it's clearly the one in the right.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
So found this in my email with the title "Introducing the saviours of the Imperium":
Looks like the standard Marine base. Maybe someone can work out something from such a clear picture on exactly how big they are.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:04:32
2017/05/18 23:03:51
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
For people asking for references. It should be noted how the Primaris its being viewed from the front and the normal space marine from a profile, so he appears even smaller.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:06:13
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 23:05:10
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
Gimgamgoo wrote: My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
Personally I'll argue that the ones in "wrong scale" are the old marines.
Agreed. Guardsmen where the same size as them, which is horribly wrong.
2017/05/18 23:07:03
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Are you actually taking a piss right now? Tanks were spammed in 7th? Not MC's, not GC's, not psykers/bikes/jetbikes/grav centurions, but tanks? Are we at calling black white point already? BTW, nice "ur wrong im right" argument.
You ok bud you seem upset.
it took vehicles becoming literally free for them to be used in any sort of non dicking around setting.
what on earth are you even on about.
So do you care to explain how this has anything to do whith facings and why should ar ork battlewagon or leman russ be as hard to damage from the front as from the rear?
The game as a whole is an abstraction in the first place.
and even then there is literally nothing important on the back side of an ork battle wagon why is shoot there is much easier when there is nothing vital. same with a chimera, if anything shooting and penning the back armor should be killing crew and passenger.
why is the land raider so hard to shoot in back armor when literally the massive exhaust is exposed and exceptionally susceptible to potatoes (grenades).
It adds nothing to the game except arbitrary weaknesses allows for stupid arguments and situations.
So if it's an abstraction it justifies less tactics and less sense just to cut some time?
What. Do you even realise how armor works? A shot from a leman russ cannon ain't just gonna hit some barrel at the back of a truck and sit there because barrel is not important. It's gonna go right through, potentially damaging it's internal systems or/and killing it's crew (crew is imprortant btw, the more you know). We put armor on tanks to prevent exacly that from happening.
Maybe because shooting off the top of exhaust pipe will do you no good in battle and there is such thing as grate which you can put inside the pipe to prevent things falling down through it?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:08:29
2017/05/18 23:07:03
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
Gimgamgoo wrote: My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
Personally I'll argue that the ones in "wrong scale" are the old marines.
Agreed. Guardsmen where the same size as them, which is horribly wrong.
Thats more fault of the Cadian models. But even compared with Genestealer Cultists, Chaos Cultists or Skitarii, the normal Space Marines and Chaos Marines are very short and smaller than how they should be.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 23:10:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
MLaw wrote: lol, I'm just here wondering if anyone complaining about vehicle spam actually played during the great Rhino rush era..
Either way I fully expect the normal
*cry cry cry*
*new edition comes out*
*buys it and plays while complaining*
*new edition announced*
*cry cry cry*
*repeat*
After watching so many editions come and go, it really is the same cycle over and over.
I played during the Rhino Rush era but it wasn't a popular tactic locally.
In the Virginia Beach area it was all the rage. Other armies were doing similar but Rhino rush was easily heaviest attendance at RTTs.
Gimgamgoo wrote: My problem with all this new space marine model info, isn't the fluff.
When I look at 2 models side by side which are very similar. My brain doesn't tell me "Cool, the bigger one is a harder better cooler version"
It just cries "Wrong scale". See picture for exaggerated example.
To me, that Primarch Guilliman model just looks silly next to the space marines. Not bigger and cooler like he's giant sized, more like it was made at the wrong scale.
I worry that's how the new Space Marines will look.
Are there pics of nuMarines side by side with oldMarines yet?
On a positive note, by reselling their largest selling brand in it's entirety again to everyone that plays Space Marines is an obvious move by GW. The profits from this will keep them going for years. In another couple of release cycles we'll have a great range of figures to play the original Inquisitor with.
So which of these are in the wrong scale?...
Speaking as a 6'5" individual, it's clearly the one in the right.
As a 6'2" individual, I agree
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/05/18 23:20:46
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
So if it's an abstraction it justifies less tactics and less sense just to cut some time?
What. Do you even realise how armor works? A shot from a leman russ cannon ain't just gonna hit some barrel at the back of a truck and sit there because barrel is not important. It's gonna go right through, potentially damaging it's internal systems or/and killing it's crew (crew is imprortant btw, the more you know). We put armor on tanks to prevent exacly that from happening.
Maybe because shooting off the top of exhaust pipe will do you no good in battle and there is such thing as grate which you can put inside the pipe to prevent things falling down through it?
Do you know how exhausts work? have you seen the exhaust on a land raider? damaging or otherwise blowing up the exhaust of most vehicles is REALLY bad for the engine. heck the back side of the landraider IS the engine and a direct hit should be taking it out
or otherwise shooting the open front of a land raider as people get out should be basically an instant kill. but that would be another page of rules for how shots work with models that can be altered (Doors opening)
its an abstraction for the sake of the game.
this is far better as it puts them on equal terms with things like MCs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:25:08
Probably time to take the armour mechanics discussion elsewhere, guys. The massive nested quotes and antogonistic tone aren't adding anything constructive to the thread
2017/05/18 23:27:20
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
RedSarge wrote: There will now be a large loss of those awesome moments where your single surviving Guardsmen takes out a charging Chaos Defiler with a missile launcher.
It's been replaced with those "awesome moments" where your single surviving guardsman takes out a charging defiler by removing its last wound with his lasgun.
There must be a name for some kind of logical fallacy in which something has no value but people lose their minds and become emotionally invested in it once it goes away.
Like it's a fair assumption to make that 90% of 40K players have gone their entire existence without using tank shock, but now that it's going the way of the dodo it's suddenly this beloved mechanic that provides tactical and narrative depth to the game? Yeah fething right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:28:15
2017/05/18 23:29:22
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
RedSarge wrote: There will now be a large loss of those awesome moments where your single surviving Guardsmen takes out a charging Chaos Defiler with a missile launcher.
It's been replaced with those "awesome moments" where your single surviving guardsman takes out a charging defiler by removing its last wound with his lasgun.
There must be a name for some kind of logical fallacy in which something has no value but people lose their minds and become emotionally invested in it once it goes away.
Like it's a fair assumption to make that 90% of 40K players have gone their entire existence without using tank shock, but now that it's going the way of the dodo it's suddenly this beloved mechanic that provides tactical and narrative depth to the game? Yeah fething right.
"You do not know what you have, until you lose it"?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:29:31
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 23:35:18
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
I was thinking that the white and red striped model was a sergreant, but there is a red helmet in the background (denoting a vet) so maybe the one with the sword is a captain? He does have fancier armour.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also he's on a 40mm base.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:38:15
2017/05/18 23:39:18
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
Like it's a fair assumption to make that 90% of 40K players have gone their entire existence without using tank shock, but now that it's going the way of the dodo it's suddenly this beloved mechanic that provides tactical and narrative depth to the game? Yeah fething right.
Unless you're assuming that the people arguing for tank shock are from amongst the 90% who never actually used it, I'm not sure what 'logical fallacy' you're seeing here.
2017/05/18 23:39:22
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 18 May 2017: Vehicles/Live QA 2 summary(All info in OP)
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