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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




United States

Games Workshop seems to have taken an alternate route in terms of releasing rules and new miniatures in the form of storyline arcs that have one faction pitted against another. That being said, are codexes going to become less and less prominent in the grand scheme of things? I do realize that the Adepta Sororitas just had a new codex released, but they had to have one with a total revamp of new models, rules, etc.

Thoughts? Do you like the way they are releasing rules/models or do you prefer to have a total overhaul on each codex individually?
   
Made in us
Manhunter





Huntsville, Texas

No way, if they can sell you a Codex AND supplement book... they will.
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

Why do they include include four factions in one PA book with engine war, but only did two in blood of baal ? This means they sell you less books. Why not one book for each faction ? They could sell even more books that way.
   
Made in us
Manhunter





Huntsville, Texas

 p5freak wrote:
Why do they include include four factions in one PA book with engine war, but only did two in blood of baal ? This means they sell you less books. Why not one book for each faction ? They could sell even more books that way.


Now your cooking with fire, let's not let GW hq see this plan

Could be that the vast majority lf the rules content in Blood of Baal was dedicated to bringing the BA up to the 2.0 Codex level of their other power armoured brethren. Haven't taken too close a lot at the printed material past that one, but it doesn't seem like there has been as massive an overhaul as there was in Blood of Baal.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




If an army has a sufficiently large release of new miniatures, it'll get a Codex and all the other swag with it.


If it doesn't and it's just throwing out a few rules to keep people happy, it'll not be a codex.


At the end of the day, a Codex is a sales-brochure for a pile of new boxes GW wants you to buy.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

 Psionara wrote:
Games Workshop seems to have taken an alternate route in terms of releasing rules and new miniatures in the form of storyline arcs that have one faction pitted against another. That being said, are codexes going to become less and less prominent in the grand scheme of things? I do realize that the Adepta Sororitas just had a new codex released, but they had to have one with a total revamp of new models, rules, etc.

Thoughts? Do you like the way they are releasing rules/models or do you prefer to have a total overhaul on each codex individually?


This isn't a new approach, you just haven't been in the game long enough to see it several times over.

The difference this time is how they're dragging it out & the cost.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
Why do they include include four factions in one PA book with engine war, but only did two in blood of baal ? This means they sell you less books. Why not one book for each faction ? They could sell even more books that way.


Why ? It couldn't be because GW has poor internal communication or in fact just do everything by whim when it comes to books eh ? They often don't follow the same direction or train of thought for more than a book or two. Considering all of these PA books are basically game filler to close the gap between more standard releases with something big rumored to drop this summer. I'd say you'll still see plenty of new codex releases dropped. If they are putting out an 8.5 edition this summer, the whole codex releases cycle will probably start anew just after that.

Wouldn't shock me at all if Marines get their 3rd 8th ed codex and new supplements, and new models so the next year can be all marine releases, oh and lets not forget the 3rd Chaos codex which will for some reason lack most of the goodies that marines got of course. With all the other armies getting their new codex, to invalidate the PA releases and their first codex release. With minimal model releases for some factions, marines gaining units interspersed within and dice for the released factions at least that are impossibly expensive where their cost is only matched by the inability to read them easily in use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/08 08:11:57


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think it's the opposite. I think the PA books are a preview of what's to come in everyone's 2.0 Codex.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I mean I don't think you're wrong, but they'll change it just enough to invalidate the PA books so you'd need to get the new codex when it drops.

Now, I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong and have the new codexeses ( yes I did it wrong on purpose ) to be just the PA update spliced into the old books but I somehow doubt GW will be so kind and instead make sure this is just a dry run and change them enough to make these releases feel like a waste of money. In the tradition of the finest burn and churn we love so much. I say again, I'd love to be wrong though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/08 08:15:33


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nah.

There is no 8.5 edition.

There is no "new power benchmark"

There is no line of 2.0 Codexes for everyone in the pipeline

Why would GW set aside their writers for 15+ books that, for the most part, don't bundle with miniatures, doubly so for factions with far lower sales than Marines. The very reason stuff like PA is bundling multiple factions (and usually at least one imperium, unless it's a popular line like Eldar), is to get enough sales through.



GW had a bunch of Marine miniatures such as Invictors and Incursors and the Impulsor, etc. to release and told their rules-writers to make a bunch of books to cover an extended release period. And between some "cool ideas" and a warped perception of old Marines allegedly being "bad" (despite placing well enough in tournaments, including a 6:0 player at the LVO a year ago), they just pulled another Mat Ward-up-to-11.



End of story.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/08 08:22:44


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





The logic behing the faction packaging in the PA books is obvious.

They are trying to get the same amount of sells for each book, or at least a similar amount of sells.

All the aeldari factions together equal around BA+Tyranids or DA+GK+TS. BT is a really niche marine faction, so you correct the numbers by adding all the CSM to it. PA5 lumps together 3 averagely popular factions.

They are pratically giving us the numbers of how much each faction sells.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/08 08:28:26


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Its been GWs business model for a while now to release a bunch of non-codex supplements after every army get its codex then release a new edition. I am willing to bet there is going to be a 9th edition later this year after all the PA. Then they can restart the process of re-selling codices again.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




PA exists to cover a gap in miniatures production while they expand their manufacturing capacity and sort out power issues.

That's it. Books are easy to make to pad out releases.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/08 15:54:21


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




San Diego, CA

ccs wrote:
 Psionara wrote:
Games Workshop seems to have taken an alternate route in terms of releasing rules and new miniatures in the form of storyline arcs that have one faction pitted against another. That being said, are codexes going to become less and less prominent in the grand scheme of things? I do realize that the Adepta Sororitas just had a new codex released, but they had to have one with a total revamp of new models, rules, etc.

Thoughts? Do you like the way they are releasing rules/models or do you prefer to have a total overhaul on each codex individually?


This isn't a new approach, you just haven't been in the game long enough to see it several times over.

The difference this time is how they're dragging it out & the cost.

^ This
Rinse and repeat of 7th edition.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Abel





Washington State

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
No way, if they can sell you a Codex AND supplement book... they will.


Gotta agree with this.

And ya know, thinking back towards the end of 7th... big campaign rolled out over several books, new models and rules, the campaign concludes, and less then a month later, 8th edition. Hmmm....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/08 17:31:24


Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Tamwulf wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
No way, if they can sell you a Codex AND supplement book... they will.


Gotta agree with this.

And ya know, thinking back towards the end of 7th... big campaign rolled out over several books, new models and rules, the campaign concludes, and less then a month later, 8th edition. Hmmm....


Honestly I feel like they cant do a campaign like this again this edition. The bloat is insane.

It's got to be either a round of new codexes that streamline things a bit (but this is essentially a bandage that wont help for long) or 9e need to be fairly soon.
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 p5freak wrote:
Why do they include include four factions in one PA book with engine war, but only did two in blood of baal ? This means they sell you less books. Why not one book for each faction ? They could sell even more books that way.


They're assuming the average user doesn't have two of the factions that they include in each PA book, so they sell the customers the maximum number of books while printing the minimum number of books.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 AnomanderRake wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Why do they include include four factions in one PA book with engine war, but only did two in blood of baal ? This means they sell you less books. Why not one book for each faction ? They could sell even more books that way.


They're assuming the average user doesn't have two of the factions that they include in each PA book, so they sell the customers the maximum number of books while printing the minimum number of books.


Blood of Baal also had the phobos update for blood angels. which required somewhere in the ballpark of 40 pages.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator



The dark hollows of Kentucky

Supplements aren't a new concept. Nor are campaign books. Just wish they still made them in softcover and they weren't so fething expensive.

Gw will continue to use codexes for armies. Can't fit all those units in a supplement, especially one that is shared by multiple factions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 02:08:57


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I just wish their campaign books were a little more campaign-y. These... are very thin on the ground.

"Oh yeah, some dudes fought over something, but here's 60 pages of faction rules!"

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just wish their campaign books were a little more campaign-y. These... are very thin on the ground.

"Oh yeah, some dudes fought over something, but here's 60 pages of faction rules!"


on that I agree. the campaign is pretty weak, I mean some of them seem like there would be a good story if they where willing to actually tell it. heck if they did a novel based on the events in ritual of the damned it could be a pretty fun one. but others are so weak I couldn't even see a good BL story saving it (like faith anbd fury)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 03:05:35


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just wish their campaign books were a little more campaign-y. These... are very thin on the ground.

"Oh yeah, some dudes fought over something, but here's 60 pages of faction rules!"


Awhile back I said, these books were going to be defacto must buys. As some others also claimed, and we were told " Noooooo it's just campaign books ! " I agree, the campaign is light because they aren't really campaign books, they are supplements to bring everyone up in power. Just like some of us knew and said before any of them came out. They are straight army buffs, though some may be much lighter than others for the factions in question. I can say for sure with guard they just make the core codex/army stronger. It isn't at all a lateral shift and the fact that the ones for marines basically give them their supplement treatment proves it further as no one can say with a straight face using your codex without the doctrines is somehow competitive versus the need for the new stuff from their supplements.

Now people have a short memory, but I called it. That is why the campaign is light, it is an after thought and the background fighting means nothing, it's all about selling you power.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 03:59:52


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

 greyknight12 wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Psionara wrote:
Games Workshop seems to have taken an alternate route in terms of releasing rules and new miniatures in the form of storyline arcs that have one faction pitted against another. That being said, are codexes going to become less and less prominent in the grand scheme of things? I do realize that the Adepta Sororitas just had a new codex released, but they had to have one with a total revamp of new models, rules, etc.

Thoughts? Do you like the way they are releasing rules/models or do you prefer to have a total overhaul on each codex individually?


This isn't a new approach, you just haven't been in the game long enough to see it several times over.

The difference this time is how they're dragging it out & the cost.

^ This
Rinse and repeat of 7th edition.


And 3rd (Codex Armegedon & Eye of Terror)
6th ed (Death From the Skies)
And I'm sure there's more such, I'm just too tired to think of them ATM.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Death from the skies was just a strange mini game they tried to sell you an expensive book to play as like the Slither of 40k. It was such a bad idea I don't know anyone who bought that book, for good reason.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Psionara wrote:
Games Workshop seems to have taken an alternate route in terms of releasing rules and new miniatures in the form of storyline arcs that have one faction pitted against another. That being said, are codexes going to become less and less prominent in the grand scheme of things? I do realize that the Adepta Sororitas just had a new codex released, but they had to have one with a total revamp of new models, rules, etc.

Thoughts? Do you like the way they are releasing rules/models or do you prefer to have a total overhaul on each codex individually?


Eh so far nothing done that gw hasn't done before.

Release codex, check, release supplements, check. Eventually gw will push print money button and release new codex.

Gw has only changed with improved pr. But putting duncan on painting videos does not mean codexes stop remade

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2020/02/24/tneva82-winter-war-tournament-report/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






We’ll always have codexes while GW can sell them. Vigil is didn’t stop SM getting another codex, so I don’t think PA will stop other factions getting one whenever GW are ready.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just wish their campaign books were a little more campaign-y. These... are very thin on the ground.

"Oh yeah, some dudes fought over something, but here's 60 pages of faction rules!"

Considering how bad what I read was I think it's better they don't write lore...

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Putting it out there as well, it's very possible that these books had all been written a long time ago and are now in the release window (written, published and released)

It's clear the direction that they want to take the factions and for anyone that has been in the hobby for a while they usually go through this cycle of New Edition > Codexes > Campaign supplements (generally mostly trash) > New Edition

Quite a few of the established play testers and popular youtubers / podcasters have dropped quite a few hints that 9th edition is on it's way, I think at this point it's a given.

These PA books are a stop gap to bring up the power of aged books before they start the codex cycle again which will no doubt roll up these changes into the codex.




"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 1700 | 3600 | 2100 | 550

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 NurglesR0T wrote:


Quite a few of the established play testers and popular youtubers / podcasters have dropped quite a few hints that 9th edition is on it's way, I think at this point it's a given.


Could you link to said youtubers who then also provide a source that doesn't circle back to this forum?

   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator



The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 NurglesR0T wrote:


Quite a few of the established play testers and popular youtubers / podcasters have dropped quite a few hints that 9th edition is on it's way, I think at this point it's a given.


Could you link to said youtubers who then also provide a source that doesn't circle back to this forum?

I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't circle back to dakka.

They'd circle around to bolter and chainsword or other youtubers instead.
   
 
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