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We need a thread for budget discussion, and I will update this post periodically to include helpful information from the thread.
Obviously start collecting boxes are a thing but the contents vary dramatically in how useful they are from 'just get one' to 'make the army out of just SC boxes'. But suffice it to say just about any army or faction that has a SC box is worth getting that to start off with. At the very least any unused units can be resold.
Beasts of Chaos Start Collecting Unit Summary:
Spoiler:
Amishprn86 wrote: Beast of Chaos (BoC) has a very good Start collecting box with 2 units having 2 completely different options.
Units Rundown
The Great-Bray Shaman: YLeader role, Very important in BoC armies that uses Bray herds (Gors, Ungors, Bestigors, Centigors, etc..) he is a single spell wizard but he has a +3" movement aura for units wholly within 12" (Bray heard units, so doesn't work on the Warherds, aka the Behemoths). His basic spell makes an enemy unit move 2D6 closer to the closest units you control, this is very good to help pulling units off of objectives or getting closer to your slower big nasty units
Bestigors: They can be battleline with a Bray shaman or a Beastlord as your general. They are your elite infantry units. Very fast, good saves, hard hitting.
Ungors: Your cheap battleline. Mostly used as chaff, objective holders, body blockers, etc.. they are great to have b.c they are cheap. Also they can run and charge, very fast for foot infantry.
Raiders: Your cheap fast moving shooting unit. They are death by 100 paper cuts type of unit. They can pre-game move, able to run and shoot as well, they can easily move 18" and still shoot. But they are very glass, with a low save and not after save.
Ghorgon: Your big melee Behemoth. Your normal big scary looking melee monster, not to big tho and not to many points. About equal to a chaos giant
Cygon: Your anti-Wizard Behemoth with shooting. Great at stomping out small and weak Wizards, with re-roles to hits vs wizards, 2 dispel attempts and deals MWs to each wizard every time he does dispel. Sadly he is very bad when not facing a wizard.
Daughters of Khaine Start Collecting Box Summary:
Spoiler:
Overread wrote: Also astarting force addition
Daughters of Khaine:
Getting Started set price £55
Within it you get one Cauldron set at £45 and one Melusai set at £30.
Furthermore the Cauldron set on its own is fantastic value for DoK as it contains ALL of the non-hero leaders for the army (Morthai being the only hero leader at present). The Cauldron set can be built in many ways and magnetized for increased performance and versatility. There's basically no waste in the set at all.
Meanwhile Melusai in their Blood sisters form (spears) are a very effective close combat unit. They fit neatly into a more "elite" slot for the army.
Two or three Getting started sets would give you more than enough leaders, cauldrons and shrines (esp if you fixed build rather than go nuts with magnets) and putting down two cauldron/shrines in an army is very viable. Meanwhile Melusai can either be taken as an elite support unit for your close combat to support witches and sisters of slaughter; or you can even build an entire force of snake women and it runs pretty well.
This makes their getting started one of the "must have" starting points for the army as well as an ideal early expansion to the army as well.
Note if you want to get into them cheaper the new "Underworld warband" does have a Queen in the set and would make a more than suitable stand in instead of using her with her Underworld warband stats. We don't know the bands stats yet, but it would let you get a cheaper Queen to start an army off if you wanted to take a different path. That said the Cauldrons are very effective buff units and DoK rely quite strongly on good buff support.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: There are technically 3 Start Collecting boxes (although I think one no longer exits)
1) Thunderstrike Brotherhood - This one is basically all the contents that went into the AoS First edition starter box. 2x5 man units of Liberators, a Lord Relictor and Vandus Hammerhand (Lord-Celestant on Dracoth), a unit of Prosecutors and 3 Retributors. Its a fairly decent place to start although the content are not necessarily "Optimal". 1 unit of 10 Liberators would be better as atleast you would get the special weapons with them (you don't in this box), the Prosecutors don't come with the "more efficient" weapon setup and the Retributors are below minimum unit size and don't come with Starsoul maces. If you just want to start out its a fine choice but nothing spectacular.
2) Stormcast Eternal Start Collecting - This was the original Start Collecting set. 1 unit of 5 Liberators (but they come with the special weapons...although only 1 of each) 3 Prosecutors (but they also come with the extra weapon options) 2 Retributors (although one is a Retributor prime and they are the same easy build models from the 1st edition starter box) and a Lord Celestant on foot. This box set was initially designed to be an add-on to the starter set. On it's own it isn't much to look at but to add to the Thunderstrike Brotherhood? It's okay for that, but i'd still go for the Thunderstrike Brotherhood. (If you can find this one...not sure they still make it anymore)
3) Stormcast Vanguard - This one consists of units from the Vanguard Chamber. I don't have a lot of experience with this box but I will say that unlike the the other two boxes this one does not contain any starter set, push-fit minis. Only downside is it only comes with 3 Gryph-Hounds when the minimum size of a unit is 6. Pallador's, Hunter's and the Lord-Aquilor all work well together.
You can build that with the Stormcast half of the Soul Wars 2-player starter and the Exorcism Soulstrike set, plus a few other boxes. The Soul Wars set only comes with 8 Sequitors, so to complete that basic list you'll need to buy a pack of the 3 easy-build Sequitors. Soul Wars also only comes with 3 Evocators, but you can fill that out to a full 5-man squad by picking up the Stormsire's Cursebreakers from Warhammer Underworlds. You can convert your Lord Relictor out of one of your other models or buy a loose one off Ebay.
That makes it about $340 retail price for a split Soul Wars box ($80), Stormcast Endless Spells box ($35), Exorcism Soulstrike ($185), EB Sequitors ($15) and Stormsire's Cursebreakers ($25), less if you buy them at online discount. Not bad for a full army
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/05/22 17:15:29
So all the daemon SC’s are FANTASTIC starting points. Add a couple GD’s and you’re in good shape. I hear BoC and BRs are also good. Skaven Pestilens is also solid. In fact, even though the new SC for S2D is amazing, it’s probably the worst one for chaos. Then again, the other chaos ones are just that good.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
Ironjawz - solid box.
Picking up 2 gives you a great chunk of an army.
Big block of ardboyz, 2 units of 3 gruntas and 2 war chanters.
Pretty much just need to add a mega boss of your choice and fill it out.
Flesh eaters - insanely solid.
You can buy multiple boxes and get great use from it all.
Grab 3 and a reagent and there’s your army.
Gloomspite one really is a big miss sadly.
You likely won’t spam both trolls and squigs.
You also won’t get much use from the boss either as almost every other character is more useful.
Start Collecting contentsAt current date 4/30/2020 for points and prices, all in USD
Great-Bray Shaman - 100pts for $15 10 Ungors or Ungor Raiders - 10 models, 60-80pts for $30 10 Bestigors - 10 models, 120pts for $45 1 Ghorgon or Cygor - 160-140pts for $60
Total points = 420-460 Total independent cost = $150 Start collect = $95 Start Collecting saving = $55
With this box you get 1 HQ, 1 or 2 Battalion, and 1 Behemoth. The Behemoth is costing you $5, IMO getting 3 of these boxes is very good.
Units Rundown
The Great-Bray Shaman: YLeader role, Very important in BoC armies that uses Bray herds (Gors, Ungors, Bestigors, Centigors, etc..) he is a single spell wizard but he has a +3" movement aura for units wholly within 12" (Bray heard units, so doesn't work on the Warherds, aka the Behemoths). His basic spell makes an enemy unit move 2D6 closer to the closest units you control, this is very good to help pulling units off of objectives or getting closer to your slower big nasty units
Bestigors: They can be battalion with a Bray shaman or a Beastlord as your general. They are your Elite infantry units. Very fast, good saves, hard hitting.
Ungors: Your cheap battalion. Mostly used as chaff, objective holders, body blockers, etc.. they are great to have b.c they are cheap. Also they can run and charge, very fast for foot infantry.
Raiders: Your cheap fast moving shooting unit. They are death by 100 paper cuts type of unit. They can pre-game move, able to run and shoot as well, they can easily move 18" and still shoot. But they are very glass, with a low save and not after save.
Ghorgon: Your big melee Behemoth. Your normal big scary looking melee monster, not to big tho and not to many points. About equal to a chaos giant
Cygon: Your anti-Wizard Behemoth with shooting. Great at stomping out small and weak Wizards, with re-roles to hits vs wizards, 2 dispell attempts and deals MWs to each wizard everytime he does dispell. Sadly he is very bad when not facing a wizard.
UNITS 10 x Bestigors (120) 10 x Bestigors (120) 10 x Bestigors (120) 10 x Ungors (60) - Mauls & Half-Shields 10 x Ungors (60) - Mauls & Half-Shields 10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
BEHEMOTHS Ghorgon (160) Ghorgon (160) Cygor (140) - Not in Battalion
BATTALIONS Depraved Drove (150)
Suggestions to make going forward
Either get a Beastlord or convert 1 shaman into a beastlord using extra parts from the Bestigor box, get a box of spawns, a doombull, 1-2 boxes of Bullgors, and finally either 2 more boxes of anything you want, examples; Raiders, Bullgors, Centigors. This will give you all the tools you need to make lots of viable and different lists at 2k, and will give you a few units to summon. The Spawns are extremely good for Gavespawn, your heroes turns into spawns and spawns with 1CP can give a unit +1 attacks.
Final notes
BoC can also be played with all 4 God books (Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch) and BoC has a viable list or 2 for all of these books as well. in order from best to worst, Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle. But Tzeentch and Nurgle are pretty close,
Tzeentch, BoC can not get the full potential out of the DoT book, but b.c of what Tzeentch can bring (Flammers and Horrors) its still pretty viable. Slaanesh is the best b.c Bestigors are extremely strong with HoS bonuses and you get to still take 2-3 KoS's. Ungors makes for really cheap battalion and the Battalion is cheap too giving you a extra relic for a KoS. Nurgle being the worst isn't that bad tho, its still a very fun and good way to play BoC. If you like MW's extra saves, and more speed, this is the book for you, sadly BoC doesn't need more speed and our base summoning is better than theirs. Bestigors and Centigors are really good in Nurgle, IMO this is the best place for Centigor themed armies, Dragon Ogres work in here too. Khorne, aruging the best way to play Warherds. If you want to play a lot of Warherds with units like Centigors or chariots this is the best place for them. Letting them fight twice, or move twice is extremely good. Having cheap fast units like Chariots, Ungors, and Centigors makes for claim objectives and getting blood points easier. Throw in a DP of Khorne and your set.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/30 14:13:58
Are the stormcast eternals start collecting boxs worth getting?
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
joewarhost wrote: What's a good value and effective unit comp for 1K of Bonereapers?
Anything. Bonereapers are unique in that it is very difficult to make a bad list with them. What makes or breaks them is very much on how you play rather than the listbuilding phase.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote: Are the stormcast eternals start collecting boxs worth getting?
Yes, though how effective the units within varies. However, being the poster boys means any given SCE unit is unlikely to really stay bad for longer then a year or two before it gets updated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/30 17:54:30
Assuming one got hold of "Aether War"... let's call it by accident... how easy is it to get a reasonable army from either side in that box? I have little to no clue about AoS, but I'm aware that both the Arkanauts as well as the Arcanites got a new book recently. How do they fare overall?
Karol wrote: Are the stormcast eternals start collecting boxs worth getting?
The one just called "Start Collecting Stormcast Eternals" is awful. Easy build models, and not many of them. Prosecutors are not very good, and the better weapon option isnt available on the easy build models. The biggest insult is getting TWO Retirbutors, when the minimum unit size is 5... I mean seriously WTF.
The Thunderstrike Brotherhood one is significantly better. Higher value Hero, twice as many Liberators meaning you can get 2 Battleline slots filled from a single SC which is not bad! Still get understength Retirbutors, but I guess 3 is better than 2..?
Then the Vanguard one is fine if you want Vanguard.
If you want to collect Sacrosanct (Sequitors etc), which is the stronger way to build a Stormcast army unless spamming Raptors right now, then you'll want to skip all of these. Instead, consider the Exorcism Soulstrike army box provided you like Evocators on Dracolines.
All of that aside, check out the Mortal Realms magazines. You can get cheap Sequitors and Celestar Balistas really easily, which can form the core of a solid Sacrosanct list. Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger is due fairly soon too, which will be an excellent price (provided GW production restarts).
Karol wrote: Are the stormcast eternals start collecting boxs worth getting?
Well it depends...
There are technically 3 Start Collecting boxes (although I think one no longer exits)
1) Thunderstrike Brotherhood - This one is basically all the contents that went into the AoS First edition starter box. 2x5 man units of Liberators, a Lord Relictor and Vandus Hammerhand (Lord-Celestant on Dracoth), a unit of Prosecutors and 3 Retributors. Its a fairly decent place to start although the content are not necessarily "Optimal". 1 unit of 10 Liberators would be better as atleast you would get the special weapons with them (you don't in this box), the Prosecutors don't come with the "more efficient" weapon setup and the Retributors are below minimum unit size and don't come with Starsoul maces. If you just want to start out its a fine choice but nothing spectacular.
2) Stormcast Eternal Start Collecting - This was the original Start Collecting set. 1 unit of 5 Liberators (but they come with the special weapons...although only 1 of each) 3 Prosecutors (but they also come with the extra weapon options) 2 Retributors (although one is a Retributor prime and they are the same easy build models from the 1st edition starter box) and a Lord Celestant on foot. This box set was initially designed to be an add-on to the starter set. On it's own it isn't much to look at but to add to the Thunderstrike Brotherhood? It's okay for that, but i'd still go for the Thunderstrike Brotherhood. (If you can find this one...not sure they still make it anymore)
3) Stormcast Vanguard - This one consists of units from the Vanguard Chamber. I don't have a lot of experience with this box but I will say that unlike the the other two boxes this one does not contain any starter set, push-fit minis. Only downside is it only comes with 3 Gryph-Hounds when the minimum size of a unit is 6. Pallador's, Hunter's and the Lord-Aquilor all work well together.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/30 20:14:08
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
Darnok wrote: Assuming one got hold of "Aether War"... let's call it by accident... how easy is it to get a reasonable army from either side in that box? I have little to no clue about AoS, but I'm aware that both the Arkanauts as well as the Arcanites got a new book recently. How do they fare overall?
Quite well. KO are strong, Tzeentch is top-tier and arguably the strongest army in the game. For the former the units included in the box are both solid and work well together (the hero and units have the ability to heal the skyvessel, and the hero makes said units battleline to fulfill minimum requirements). For Tzeentch... well it doesn't really matter in the first place if you are bringing along the best stuff because even an under-par Tzeentch army is plenty good for most games.
Thankfully I've gone with three factions that are either cheap to collect or are reusable in other games. I'd pick Tzeentch horrors as my best friends for budget, though, as they look great, are decent units and are usable in both 40K and AoS. The others two are Stormcasts and Legions of Nagash.
Thanks, Besides the stormcasts starters, there doesn't seem to be a start collecting for a human army, do those not exist or just went OOP because of the covid thing?
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Karol wrote: Thanks, Besides the stormcasts starters, there doesn't seem to be a start collecting for a human army, do those not exist or just went OOP because of the covid thing?
'Generic' humans form a big part of the Cities of Sigmar faction (and running a 'Empire' army with just the humans is viable). Cities of Sigmar has two start collecting boxes but neither of them have any humans in them. So as of now there are not generic human SC boxes. People have frequently express a desire for more on the 'normal guys' front though, so perhaps GW will deliver sooner rather than later.
I'm pretty sure GW view Stormcast as being THE default human army at this point, at least aesthetically (not lore).
The human Cities kits are all looking a bit dated in my opinion (not the worst out there for sure, but not up to current standards). This is quite possibly why GW are not really pushing them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 08:09:32
In the Lore the main humans of the Mortal Realms are the Chaos Warcry groups. They each represent major tribes up to civilisations who are what remains of the humans of the Realms. Given over to worship of Chaos after 500 years of Chaos Occupation and after the other Gods all retreated and pulled back their forces until the Age of Sigmar when he unleashed his Stormcast in a massive tide like D-Day.
Thing is the majority of the mortal Realms is still held by forces of Chaos. Most of the humans are everything from tribes of Darkoath all the way up to ordered cities. All given over to Chaos or to other gods who are often just Chaos demons posing as other gods.
So if you want the main human faction for the setting - its Slaves to Darkness
Cities of Sigmar represents the last alliance of peoples of order who are not given to Chaos - men, aelves and dwarves of shattered nations who survived in hiding and smaller groups. Now brought together by Sigmar and shielded behind the Stormcast and within reclaimed and rebuilt great cities. They now hold huge areas of land (but nowhere near the majority); where the interiors can be chaos free for generations (far as I can tell roughly 100-300 ish years have past in the setting since the Stormcast were unleashed).
Indeed at present good order humans are a minority; which is a neat flip over from the Old World where it was Dwarves and Elves that were the underpopulated dying out races.
Now GW might well turn back and give humans another faction or two of their own .Stormcast are very much not humans, they are giants among men and their story very much shows that they are anything but human behind their facehelms
Also astarting force addition
Daughters of Khaine:
Getting Started set price £55
Within it you get one Cauldron set at £45 and one Melusai set at £30.
Furthermore the Cauldron set on its own is fantastic value for DoK as it contains ALL of the non-hero leaders for the army (Morthai being the only hero leader at present). The Cauldron set can be built in many ways and magnetized for increased performance and versatility. There's basically no waste in the set at all.
Meanwhile Melusai in their Blood sisters form (spears) are a very effective close combat unit. They fit neatly into a more "elite" slot for the army.
Two or three Getting started sets would give you more than enough leaders, cauldrons and shrines (esp if you fixed build rather than go nuts with magnets) and putting down two cauldron/shrines in an army is very viable. Meanwhile Melusai can either be taken as an elite support unit for your close combat to support witches and sisters of slaughter; or you can even build an entire force of snake women and it runs pretty well.
This makes their getting started one of the "must have" starting points for the army as well as an ideal early expansion to the army as well.
Note if you want to get into them cheaper the new "Underworld warband" does have a Queen in the set and would make a more than suitable stand in instead of using her with her Underworld warband stats. We don't know the bands stats yet, but it would let you get a cheaper Queen to start an army off if you wanted to take a different path. That said the Cauldrons are very effective buff units and DoK rely quite strongly on good buff support.
ingtaer wrote: What are peoples thoughts on the IDK box?
Honestly its fine, you might not use the Soulrender, but you are saving $10 and getting him for free.
$90 USD
Soulrender $30
Eels $50
Thralls $50
$130 savings of $40.
If you are starting out and want 2 Thrall units and Eels, its not a bad way to start. But sadly IDK is a costly army, so its the best way to get cheap Thralls and Eels at the start. I for sure would tell a new IDK player to get 2 of these boxes right away, 1 King, 1 Boat as a full starting army and tell him to not play with the Soulrenders till later.
To Add: Sadly the cheapest and best way to play is Soulscryers + Kings + Eels, and maybe 1 or 2 Thrall units. Heck i've tested out and even seen others try it with great success 18 eels, 3 Kings, 2 Soulscryers and thats it.
That list is $600 with 2 boats and the codex. Honestly not bad at all. But if you wanted to play with Thralls and Sharks (Sharks are the worst for money) it sucks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 13:19:04
Stux wrote: I'm pretty sure GW view Stormcast as being THE default human army at this point, at least aesthetically (not lore).
They do not. That has been made abundantly clear.
The human Cities kits are all looking a bit dated in my opinion (not the worst out there for sure, but not up to current standards). This is quite possibly why GW are not really pushing them.
Also because Cities is a mess of a faction. You take a City(which means you're locked to a specific Realm as well), then you have to worry about subfactions within that setup like no other army currently does.
Ex: There are no Shadowblades 'leader' characters. You can take an Assassin, but he does nothing outside of pop out and murder folk. Since there are not really any characters that natively do something for "Aelf" characters, you have to rely upon the City warlord traits that specify your City in order to bolster your Dark Riders or Shadow Warriors. It makes building a themed list extremely irritating at this juncture, especially if you're someone who wants to utilize 'counts as' for older collections.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 16:28:15
ingtaer wrote: What are peoples thoughts on the IDK box?
Honestly its fine, you might not use the Soulrender, but you are saving $10 and getting him for free.
$90 USD
Soulrender $30
Eels $50
Thralls $50
$130 savings of $40.
If you are starting out and want 2 Thrall units and Eels, its not a bad way to start. But sadly IDK is a costly army, so its the best way to get cheap Thralls and Eels at the start. I for sure would tell a new IDK player to get 2 of these boxes right away, 1 King, 1 Boat as a full starting army and tell him to not play with the Soulrenders till later.
To Add: Sadly the cheapest and best way to play is Soulscryers + Kings + Eels, and maybe 1 or 2 Thrall units. Heck i've tested out and even seen others try it with great success 18 eels, 3 Kings, 2 Soulscryers and thats it.
That list is $600 with 2 boats and the codex. Honestly not bad at all. But if you wanted to play with Thralls and Sharks (Sharks are the worst for money) it sucks.
Yeah, math wise it's a deal. But it's not a very exciting one.
Stux wrote: I'm pretty sure GW view Stormcast as being THE default human army at this point, at least aesthetically (not lore).
They do not. That has been made abundantly clear.
Disagree.
Just to be clear though - I'm not saying that Stormcast are the default humans in the setting. I'm saying that GW use them as the faction new players will go to when they want to play the "good guy human" army.
That is the sense in which they are the default humans of the game. Even if within the lore they are neither numerous nor strictly human.
The whole point of Stormcast was to introduce a parallel to the Chaos factions. We now have 'divinely elevated' humans in the Stormcast, 'normal humans' in the form of Freeguild, and 'cultist humans' in the form of the Devoted of Sigmar.
The daemon boxes are particularly nice because all four of the mono-god factions can summon them in even if you do not include them in the list proper. As for 40k/kill team, more of a question for a different thread.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The daemon boxes are particularly nice because all four of the mono-god factions can summon them in even if you do not include them in the list proper.
Yeah, being able to call on them is great, but is it work taking the effort of build and setup when other things can work better on the table for those armies or on their own?
NinthMusketeer wrote: As for 40k/kill team, more of a question for a different thread.
Not really, as one of the considerations for going daemons is the ability to go back and forth between the two game sets. When looking at things like budgeting, being able to play many different games no matter who you meet at the shop is an incredible aspect to look at pursuing. Going in depth on what is in there is more a question for the other board, agreed, but a quick, "it's crap", "it's okay", or "it's worth getting if you're going in to this army," would be sufficient.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
Unfortunately the answer to the 40k questions is more complicated than that. If I could have given an accurate assessment that easily, I would have.
And yes, the units contained in the daemon SC boxes are things you would want to summon and/or use as part of an army. Even bloodletters, probably the worst unit out of all of them (and IMO not bad anyways), have a use as the best summon for body count on objectives.
Just to be clear though - I'm not saying that Stormcast are the default humans in the setting. I'm saying that GW use them as the faction new players will go to when they want to play the "good guy human" army.
That is the sense in which they are the default humans of the game. Even if within the lore they are neither numerous nor strictly human.
But aren't they like a bad army, in w40k marines are the flag ship and new player army. In general they have good to very good rules. Stormcasts don't seem to be doing much, at least as winning games goes, in AoS. So fueling new players in to them would be generating a lot of resentment. Specialy as their starter boxs seem to be also bad, as people said here.
Feel strange for a game to have multiple odd and ugly faction, but no good , as in good to play, human faction.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
