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2020/05/23 20:44:10
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Galas wrote: I mean, to make it work they just need to leave you roll for reanimation protocols even if the whole unit was wiped, but if you faill everything then that unit can't reroll again and is 100% destroyed. To add some counter play maybe add that if they are all wiped in mele they can't use it because the enemy destroys the corpses, or something like that.
Also I hope they give necron warriors a meele profile for their Gauss Flayers. I mean. They have giant axe-bayonets on them that do nothing. Just a +1S or -1AP would be enough.
That would make units nearly invincible. 20 rolls failed? Lol. So basically kill points would either be denied fully or necrons leak them like hell
2020/05/25 06:36:42
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
What happens to my codexes?
Good news! All your codexes still work! As do campaign expansions like the Vigilus series, Psychic Awakening and White Dwarf Supplements.What about the Psychic Awakening books?Again – these all still work! The rules in these supplements were written with the new edition in mind, so you can continue to use the rules in them for your games.
What about my Forge World Index books?
These will be changing.Look out for a new range of books to support the Warhammer 40,000 Forge World offer soon after the release of the new edition.
Will there be new codexes for this edition too?
Yes, each of the factions in Warhammer 40,000 will be revisited in turn with codexes. This next wave of codexes will have additional content that features the new edition’s updated rules, such as the new Crusade system.
Technically that doesn't say codex will have old supplements into it. Rather new additional content to deal with crusade etc. Ergo they can keep PA stratagems out of codex and 100% fit into that FAQ.
2020/06/10 10:21:07
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Wouldn't the changes to terrain help RP? If they can't delete us off the board because cover and hiding is better, then RP might actually have time to work.
Gauss Reaper looks lackluster. That 14" range is ridiculous. I was expecting 18".
Except so far terrain rules have made it EASIER than what we have had before. Sure if you play by the book this is improvement but at least here the 1st floor blocks LOS has been use since day 1 of 8th ed...And the 9th ed makes it easier to get LOS to...
Wonder what's the good target for new gun or what buffs you need to make it better assuming >7"<=14" range(the most likely due to veil). No buffs marines the gauss flayer wins at rapid fire range.
And lol at the FB notifications. I never got message W40k community replied to my comment so I actually saw it here
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 20:46:24
2020/06/15 20:48:34
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
In theory it sounds cool. You come back alive on 5+! Yey! And the crypteks make it to 4+! And there's stratagems to give rerolls and various ways to do 2 or even 3 time for unit! Yey! Awesome!
Except the issue is unit needs to have survivors to roll it...If every model is dead no rolling. Unit is gone. And overall necrons are not that tough especially for point costs. Warriors we are looking at 20 wounds at T4 4+ save. Not hard to remove. And 9th ed makes it easier due to blast.
Immortals? 10 wounds with 3+ save. I would take warriors instead for durability.
Destroyers? 6 models, 3 wound each. T5 at least. But still not THAT super tough.
Only unit I regularly roll it is lychguard due to 4++(that can be buffed to 3++ in shooting phase) and even that's not that common. Too much high ROF -0/-1 dam2 or d3 guns out there to rely on that.
And it's not like how RP works is super secret so opponents know to focus stuff dead.
It also has issue in that it scales very badly. 500-1000 pts you can actually roll it sometimes and there RP can be frustrating to opponent. In 2k it's much less common. 3k? Just forget it. Rules that are sooooooooooo badly scalable are extra bad.
Problem though is it's not easy to fix. If units roll even after all dead then units are essentially undying especially if you go 2nd(good luck failing 10 5+ roll in a row...) so either opponents would not get any kill vps(you come back alive) or you would bleed them all the time. Stratagem would at least add cost but then back to non-scalability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/16 07:06:25
2020/06/17 17:23:41
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Yes there is. You do know right inv saves fail right? You don't auto pass inv saves.
2020/06/22 11:32:27
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
How you fix them either not giving any vp's for being killed seeing units would be essentially impossible to keep down or on same result bleed vp's like there's no end to it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alextroy wrote: My though is there are no strats/relics/etc for Necrons in Pariah, because they wouldn't overlook stating that if there are. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is Codex Necrons is not far away. No point in putting out additional rules in the PA that are immediately (less than 2 months) folded into a new codex.
Or they keep PA around and not have everything transfered. They have stated not all from PA's goes to new codexes anyway. No doubt leaving best parts to PA so competive players need to buy both anyway
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IHateNids wrote: I thought it was made clear that PA book sremain in circulation and that none of that stuff is getting Codex'd
Or am I hearing things again?
They said some stuff would be put to to codex. "best of" style. Of course GW being GW will likely leave the real best stuff to PA. From orks the stompa mob thing goes to codex but SSAG relic is left to PA
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/22 11:35:11
2020/07/11 08:02:29
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Galas wrote: I don't know. I play farsight breachers and the amount of time I'm at middle (10") or even close range (5") is surprising. I also have a stratagem to be at close range at long range (15").
Yeah, strike squads are more reliable and easy to use but right now ap 0 is just like doing nothing agaisnt space marines and sororitas. And for my playstile Breachers work much better.
That doesnt mean I dont use strike squads, I use both, but each one has his place and they both do is work.
I can totally see 20 man warrior squads designeds to run the middle of the board have 10 of each weapon.
Sororitas? Isn't breacher ap2? So basically vs sororita you trade range for wounding on 2+
2020/07/11 14:45:16
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Not sure how long it's going to be relevant, but it's a nice analysis, that kind of lines up how I'm feeling. Right now we're not top tier, but we are pretty solidly middle of the pack compared to before.
I liked it as well, though any review of necrons in 9th is incomplete without our codex.
You analyze what you have available. No point sayign "but codex" when a) it's not here b) we have no idea when it comes c) people are going to play 9th ed necrons without new codex for forseaable future d) we have no idea what codex is like. With GW it could also be massive nerf and we are left hoping "if only they hadn't released that codex! Now we are going to suck for years"
2020/07/24 08:47:02
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Wouldn't go around buying particle caster bits yet. No idea what GW does with that in codex. It's possible they keep that stupid "optional" upgrade system but maybe they don't. But with codex here in month or two likely wouldn't rush to get those.
2020/07/24 17:33:52
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Eyjio wrote: Did anyone else catch these dynasty codes flashing by? Some are really insane. Bit hard to read, but Nephrekh gives a 6++, Nihilakh seems to grant army wide Objective Secured, Szarekhan have a 5++ against mortal wounds, etc. Also, Nihilakh has the interesting phrase "When the Protocol of the Eternal Guardian becomes active for your army, if every unit in your army (excluding Dynastic Agent and C'tan Shard units) has this code, you can select both of that command protocol's directives instead of just one" - are we getting doctrine equivalents?! Also interesting it's talking about armies, not detachments, I wonder if the new Space Marines will follow suit.
Well, optimism for being good just went through the roof, now I'm a bit worried we'll be overtuned! I can't believe how strong some of this sounds, especially compared to what I was expecting.
Not all good though. Nephrek can't shoot anymore after doing full speed advance. My playstyle died.
2020/07/25 18:40:35
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They should have really released a downloadable Big mek with KFF pdf. Having to buy an expansion to get the rules for a model which will become obsolete in a few months anyway is a bit gakky.
Umm what model got obsolete? KFF mek is still more than usable. Necron stuff aren't going to become obsolete either.
2020/07/28 05:45:44
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They should have really released a downloadable Big mek with KFF pdf. Having to buy an expansion to get the rules for a model which will become obsolete in a few months anyway is a bit gakky.
Umm what model got obsolete? KFF mek is still more than usable. Necron stuff aren't going to become obsolete either.
Sorry, that wasn't clear. I was talking about the book, not the model.
The Big Mek with KFF rules will most likely show up in the Ork Codex, so buying Psychic Awakening for that is pointless, imo.
Yeah. And codex is when? Codexes don't get all replaced in few months. Expect to have 8e codexes for couple years. It took like 1.5 years to replace indexes with codexes in 8e and then still had couple new ones. Now there's less of a rush to replace them to 9th.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm worried/wondering what's the fate of our destroyers going to be. Locust seems to be either new variant alltogether or replacement of heavy destroyers. Whatabout regulars? And if it's new will old ones get new models or will they keep old models on sale?
If old models go off then those are to legends. Suddenly I'm happy I never got around buying those heavy destroyers like I planned after CA19...Might have proven to be expensive short term addition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 09:47:30
2020/07/29 03:56:58
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Venerable Ironclad wrote: On the subject of the changes to Reanimation, I think we can make some assumptions. For starters I think we rule out it being any kind of feel no pain save, since we have seen the one Dynasty gains a 6++ as one of its traits and I would be down right pointless if Reanimation was such a save already. Next, I recall them stating it was redesigned to scale with different point values, this tell me the current system will no longer be used. I also recall a statement hinting at reanimation being different for different units, stronger for a lord and weaker for say a warrior, of course this may have just been referring to the fluff and how lords carry more personality than your warrior. There is also evidence that Caoptek units will have at least some access to reanimation. There was also mention of tactical decision making during the reanimation phase.
All of this together, I will make my predition on how Reanimation will work this edition. Reanimation will happen at the start of your turn. Models will have one chance at reanimating, if they pass they get added back to the unit, if they fail the are removed from the reanimation pool(They cannot try again next turn). Different units may have different rolls to make for reanimation. Warriors may only reanimate on a 6 while Immortals reanimate on a 5. This reanimation roll can be effected by a multiple of different factors, Cryptek, Reanimators, ResOrbs,Canoptek units with a Spider nearby ect. Units that are wiped out can still reanimate but with some form of penalty(could be a simple -1, or maybe they can only reanimate on a 6).
This is just my guess on how reanimation will play out. I wish I could site the various statements I remembered but there is just too much media to sort through. I would not be surprised if I remembered half of it wrong.
6++ is inv save so usable with fnp. New dynastys 5+++ vs mortal is proof you seeked.
And what you described is a) buffable fnp b) huge nerf
2020/07/29 15:55:34
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
a_typical_hero wrote: Interesting idea for sure and needs to be tested in real games to see how well it works.
Wasn't it already leaked that RP will work even on completely wiped out squads? The trade off being you can only roll for models that have been killed in this round.
Or was that debunked already?
Uh no we have heard no official word whatsoever. Not even rumour. Only speculation.
2020/08/04 03:34:32
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Bosskelot wrote: The lack of blast definitely seems like an oversight and will probably be FAQ'd.
Actually, I think it might be intentional.
A lot of people here are saying there's no point in taking DDA because the Doomstalker has pretty much the same weapon, except shorter ranged.
What I'm thinking is that GW foresaw this, so they gave the Doomsday Cannon blast but left it out for the blaster variant, meaning that if you want anti-hoard you still want to take DDAs.
You don't shoot dda at horde. Blast in dda is liability.
Still i would be asking why would i take stalker over dda. Worse guns, worse survivability. Only benefit is lack of blast.
2020/08/04 08:14:56
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Matt Swain wrote: Does anyone else think the DDA is gong to need changes to stay valid in 9e?
I saw the stats for the lokhust heavy destroyer and it's got a weapon option that is heavy 1, S10, AP4 and doed 3d3 dam.
3d3 damage means an average 6 dam per hit. Yes it has a shorter range but still long enough to cover a lot of the table. The DDA on high power does 1d6, which is 3-4 dam per his on average.
3 minimum, 6 average, max 9 dam per hit vs the DDA with 1 minimum, 3.5 average and 6 maximum per hit pretty much means that people are going to likely be taking a couple of these lokhusts rasthen than a dda.
The DDA has some advantages, like longer ranger, d6 shots rather than 1, more survivable and the gauss flayer array, but still, an average hit from a lokhust will do 6 dam while 2 hits from a DDA will average 7.
If the lokhust is half the cost of a DDAor less the dda will likely disappear from a lot of tables.
If the DDA doesn't get a buff it's going to be replaced by the lokhust. Do you think gw will buff the dda or just decide to make the lokhust totally superior as everyone who is likely to buy a dda already has so gw nerfs is t get people to buy lokhusts?
2 locust averages 5.33 vs russ. Dda 5.14, has flayer arrays(very useful) and is tougher.
Dda is also vehicle which is generally good in 9th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 19:48:53
2020/08/05 06:38:44
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sasori wrote: The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...
I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.
Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth
2020/08/05 09:53:01
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sumilidon wrote: After seeing the Doom Stalker it would seem GW are returning to their old ways. That thing needs to be cheap in order to be any good because BS4 is pants, random shots are pants and it's a weapon called a Doomsday Blaster but doesn't even have the blast rule!
Stormtrooper weapons are blasters in sw but no big explosion.
And you really don't want blast to this. It's nothing but nerf
2020/08/08 06:50:24
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sasori wrote: The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...
I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.
Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth
do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?
Seeing you reach most targets and hit on 4+ when moving not that much. 1 shot that miss half the time...other shoots 4 time and even on move on 3+
2020/08/08 08:39:19
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sasori wrote: The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...
I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.
Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth
do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?
Seeing you reach most targets and hit on 4+ when moving not that much. 1 shot that miss half the time...other shoots 4 time and even on move on 3+
you're still trying to compare a turret to a mobile strike unit. you'd be better off comparing this to primaris supressors.
1 shot weapon that hits on 4+ on move isn't mobile strike unit. You are trying to turn turret into mobile strike uni'
