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The rule specifies "Once per turn....unit can release one", so even for bad moons shooting twice I don't think the second time they can release another squig.

I have a question about the stormboyz reserve /kommandos reserve/tellyporta strat: those units can deploy on the first turn (end of mvt phase), right ?
I don't see any mention of 1st turn restriction in the rulebook, except in the "strategic reserve" (which is a stratagem, not a general reserve rule).

 Grimskul wrote:

XC18 wrote:
I have a question about the stormboyz reserve /kommandos reserve/tellyporta strat: those units can deploy on the first turn (end of mvt phase), right ?
I don't see any mention of 1st turn restriction in the rulebook, except in the "strategic reserve" (which is a stratagem, not a general reserve rule).

No they can't. I can't remember off the top of my head where its stated, but at least in matched play, you cannot use deep strike abilities or stratagem on the first turn barring rules that explicitly allow you to do so like SM drop pods.

Thanks and... Okay too bad ;(

Madjob wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.

Except every instance of referring to a collective unit (even when it's a unit of 1 model) instead of individual models in the entire ruleset? You are not reading the whole sentence and seeing that it is referring to vehicle and biker units (and all models contained in them).

I am not native english speaker, but is it possible that the "unit" refers only to the bikers, and not to vehicles ?
Also the more I compare the wordings in the first ability (+ 1 shot on Dakka) and the second ability (Ap-1), the more I feel like it's really including the transported troops. Why would they add "in" for the second ability ?
Anyway, the rule is quite unclear and we will certainly need a errata or FAQ to clarify that.

Whatever your list is today, it probably won't be as good anymore, period. That's the way it is with new codices.
We just need to find what is the next OP/killy/fun combination in the new codex so that we can spam it !

Example of a stupid idea: unit of 3 x deffdreads (1 klaw 3 bigshoota each). At speedwaahg turn , i'll get them close somehow (advance, orkmatic piston, tellyporta, whatever...) within 18", and they will dish out 54 shots str5 ap-1. If I can increase the accuracy ( stratagem, sparkly bits, etc...), that would be a nice trick hahaha .

SemperMortis wrote:

Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. .

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

I am confused, are you complaining that shootas/big shoota are meh , or that the new codex rules are ?
The stats ( str, ap, d) of those guns don't change.
So, if 96pts of orks to kill a marine is pathetic, what about the 108pts we have today ? (~16 orks shootas with DDD).

Not trying to defend the new codex, after all we know not much about it, but you are comparing guns and models in the mindset that we will be playing them the same way we are playing them today.
No, this is wrong, keep in mind that we are going to change our tactics and the way we play.

Shootas ? Emphasize of the codex seems to get deadlier when we are close. and that's probably what we will do with them. In 9th ed units must go and grab objectives, getting closer is kind of obvious anyway.
Tankbustas ? Obviously, we will never advance our tankbustas, but more like playing them from a fixed position, probably center board - with T5 they may survive longer. Or maybe we'll get stratagems to move and shoot without penalties on heavies.
KMB ? well you just demonstrate that quad KMB is a bad idea. so we won't play that model fitted like that. Besides we have ways to fall back and still be shooting (blood axes rules for ex.. on a side note I really really hope the bloods axe can get way better rules....(

 Vineheart01 wrote:

But in order to run a single LoW its 1cp and sacrifice kulture rules. Thats the issue, the stupid superheavy aux detachment needs to not have that dumb penalty. Even knights feel utterly pathetic if they cant get House rules.

Someone remind me how we get a LOW for 1 CP ? and why no kulturs ?

I got 2 nauts, seems like I can't get them 2 together on field anymore, and even one will cost me 3CP ;(

I'll be curious about the new stratagems.
No matter some models are nerfed or not, some strat can be game changing or give the egde we need.

I know you guys don't really like playing Blood Axes, but I just wonder -since their trait apparently don't change- : what type of cover does BA units benefit when shot from over 18" ? Light cover ? Dense cover ?
And does BA vehicles get the cover too ?

I am impressed by the stats of the 'Uge choopa, I probably will keep the axe on my soon-to-be-converted AOS warboss ( into a Mega-armoured Boss).
Maybe don't even need to change it to the killchoopa relic.

Sorry if this has been already demonstrated, but how do you guys see that the specialist mob units lose their Clan kultur keywords ?

In specialist ladz it says that such unit don't benefit the Clan kultur unless they have the Clan keywords, which is all good as there is nothing about losing the Clan keywords, no?

Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?

The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.

 Jidmah wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

XC18 wrote:
Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?

The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.

So were just going to ignore this question? I too want to know where it has been written since I couldnt find anything of the sort either.

What would be the point of allowing specialist mobz to be from a different clan? In that case they just wouldn't have listed them.

The way I see I, that rule is targeting the character units listed in there (snikrot, badrukk, etc..) , to make sure they don't benefit from kultur other than their own.

 Jidmah wrote:
To be more precise, there are three possible explanations:

1) Specialist mobs replace their clan with their
subculture. They are listed so they don't break the detachment.
2) Specialist mobs do not replace their clan and can benefit from their culture and their sub-culture. They are listed in case you put them in another clan for the sole reason of losing their culture?
3) Specialist mobz do not replace their clan but can never benefit from their culture. They are listed if you want to break unit synergy with other <clan> units?

So for both 2) and 3) it wouldn't really make sense to list them unless you are actively trying to hurt your army. According to Occam's razor 1) remains as the interpretation that is most likely to be valid.

Hmm.. first: take a look at the example in the rule, it litteraly writes that Ghazkull still benefits Goff kultur if he is in the goff detachment. So being a specialist ladz does not prevents it from benefiting from its kultur.

2/As for why someone would take spec mob units with a different clan, it is pretty obvious for me.
For example i have an evil sunz detachtment, and I want to add Boss Snikrot + a unit of kommandos (specialist Sneaky Gitz) of blood axe clans, so they can benefit Snikrot aura. Now I can, add the rest of my army still get the evil sunz kultur.

XC18 wrote:


Hmm.. first: take a look at the example in the rule, it litteraly writes that Ghazkull still benefits Goff kultur if he is in the goff detachment. So being a specialist ladz does not prevents it from benefiting from its kultur.

2/As for why someone would take spec mob units with a different clan, it is pretty obvious for me.
For example i have an evil sunz detachtment, and I want to add Boss Snikrot + a unit of kommandos (specialist Sneaky Gitz) of blood axe clans, so they can benefit Snikrot aura. Now I can, add the rest of my army still get the evil sunz kultur.

Ah well,. snikrot is a bad example as it is not in the list of specialists ladz ;(

In any case until I read the rule that says that specialist mob units don't benefit kultur, I won't believe it

SemperMortis wrote:
...compared to Lootas who just got worse somehow and now have to take a mek armed with a 24' weapon (36 for big shoota) for every 4 lootas...

By the way, deffgun are now dakka 3/2, so it is possible to get them in the transport/wagon and move around and get within 24" for the spanner (weither that's a good idea or not).
Now that I think about it, this actually a big change, not in power level, but the way people will play lootas in this edition...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
3+?

*rummages through leaks*

wait wtf their extra cover rule says "receives benefit of cover, add 2 to their save" instead of "when receiving benefit of cover add 2 instead of 1 to their save"

10 bucks they faq that. 3+ kommandos is nutty.

You can compare with the grots rule which has the exact same wording but [receives benefit of cover, add 1 to their save].
So teah kommandos really got 3+ save in cover.

I think we can all agree that this will be errataed eventually.
So until it is done and we know the true rules for the specialist mob units, better simply ignore the specialist mob and focus on the rest of the new codex...

Hey Snikrot's trait is Kunnin but brutal, instead of 'I've got a plan ladz'. That's...interesting. (I am trying to make a okayish list of blood axes, that s why,. But it is a bit too early to talk about list ideas and such)

Beardedragon wrote:
oh feth me. Rokkits for killa kanz is 15 points.

A killa kan with rokkits is 55 points..

Yup, same cost than previous codex ... , plus Ramshackle, WS4+ and rokkit D3.
So still looks good tbh.

 kingbbobb wrote:

extra megablasters kustom job isn't a vehicle kustom job, this means you give it to all 3 deff dreads in a unit XD

...

i definitely think blood axes are the worst klan now,

Nice catch about the mek (non-vehicle) kustom job !

About Blood axe, agree the benefits are not as good as other clans, but they are not completely useless either.

My orks are usually bad at attrition so I hate it when I charge and the alpha strike ends up ridiculously bad.
If they're still alive, being able to fell back and charge and be first to hit again is nice...
Especially if you build your army for this, we got quite a few units that are at best on charge. (Someone was suggesting using squigNobz for ex)

The 18"-away-cover, just like the redeployment and the ability to go in reserve in a whim, improves (a bit) the chance of enduring the inevitable first round of shooting.

Hm... I think you got it somewhat wrong here. Vehicles can get cover, they just can't get it from terrain features.
If this is correct, the blood axe trait is the only way i see to provide cover to our vehicles. Dreads and wagons get 2+ save... if shot with ap-3 guns, they still got 5+ save, that's basically free KFF (old codex) army wide on the first turn !
You guys can certainly come up with ideas to use that (2+ save kannonwagon ?)

Something I'd like to clarify, I have read somewhere that our Nauts couldn't got kustom job or be specialist mob easily. but is that correct ?
Is there a rule somewhere about that ?

 Afrodactyl wrote:

Both Specialist Mobs and Kustom Jobs state;

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Orks Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support, Super-Heavy Auxiliary or Fortification Network Detachments)...."

For me, this is simply a clarification that the rule is still valid even if you have an SH auxiliary detachment that is not Ork.
But nothing prevent Ork Nauts to be specialist or have a kustom job, even if it is in a SH aux detachment.

By the way, also about the Blood axe trait, do you think we can redeploy/place in reserve like 3 transport vehicles with units embarked inside ? ... A bit like Tellyporta.

Concerning Burnas, actually now that their guns are D6 hit and 12" range, they actually have far more firepower than shootas, no ?
Ex.a suicide squad (coming from reserve or Tellyporta , at best at 9" from target), let's assume 10 Burnas (ie. 8burnas + 2 spanners) they'll get 8xD6 so ~24 autohits.
To get the same amount of hits you would need 36 shootas boys which is 3 times more expensive.(Or 24 of you manage to get longer range)

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Battlescribe lists the breacha ram for kommandos as a 15 point upgrade, but I vaguely remember it only being 5 points.

Can anyone with the book confirm the points cost please?

the entry for breacha Ram is for the weapon AND the kommando boy. (5+10)

 koooaei wrote:
You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.

"+1 for their own ability". you mean Throat Slittas ? nahh, that's +1 on the wound roll, not the AP.
Which is still very good...

SemperMortis wrote:

Hot garbage:

Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.

...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.

I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)

SemperMortis wrote:

XC18 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Hot garbage:

Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.

...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.

I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)

Its utter crap because its a former ability that they took from us and turned into a 1 CP stratagem that only works on 3 units, and realistically...you won't be using this because why spend 1CP to reroll 1 dice when you can spend 2 CP to Ramming speed, have a better chance of getting the charge off AND doing mortal wounds on a 2+?

Ah well, true dat. Fair enough.

SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some

Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.

Since we're comparing 24" range rokkit launcher with 6"range Busta bomb, you should assume that the tankbustas don't need to move to shoot the knight with launchers, so it's more like 3+ to hit in freebotta.

Anyway, the point was that one costed 1cp and happened once in a while , while the other is free and -with proper play- can maybe happen once or twice every game.

I think that Ork walkers are individually stronger in this edition (cheaper, ramshackle, etc...).

But for dread lists, that's another story.
In this age of objective-base game infantries are king, and our walkers are slow and non-objsec, so it's kind of uphill for them.

Winning dreadlists will be a combination of walkers for the heavy lifting and MSU infantry for scoring, and I think that evils sunz or blood axes would be more suitable clans, as they improve the mobility of the walkers, by turn 2 or 3 they can be all over the board.