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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So with the new points changes which chapters and units came Out the best?

My top 3 biggest winners:
-Inceptors 120pts is a good deal
-Assault Intercessors at 19pts are a solid buy
-terminators

My top 3 losers:
-Devastator Centurions priced out of being competitive
-Scout squads no way they are worth 14pts now
-Thunderfire Cannons

Best chapters
-Ultramarines
-Imperial Fists
-Ravenguard


What new list concepts have you developed for 9th? What are the must take units now?
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Disagree on Scouts, the ability to start the game on objectives and block out sections of the table from Reserves is going to be pretty useful. Plus, with obscuring terrain they will be easier to keep out of harms way while they're accomplishing those goals as well.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





What other units are good for SMs in 9th?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I just started with Indomitus as a marine player (Have been playing Adeptus Mechanicus since their release) and am really liking Infiltrators. 12" DS deny bubble is huge as it will delay any charge onto objectives on your side of the field which is how a good chunk of armies probably plan on getting that far for secondaries. I plan to build into Raven gaurd too. So 2 minimum squads with increased durability protecting my turf seems absolutely awesome.
   
Made in es
Bounding Assault Marine



Madrid, Spain

broxus wrote:
So with the new points changes which chapters and units came Out the best?

My top 3 biggest winners:
-Inceptors 120pts is a good deal
-Assault Intercessors at 19pts are a solid buy
-terminators

My top 3 losers:
-Devastator Centurions priced out of being competitive
-Scout squads no way they are worth 14pts now
-Thunderfire Cannons

Best chapters
-Ultramarines
-Imperial Fists
-Ravenguard


What new list concepts have you developed for 9th? What are the must take units now?


Replace Imperial Fists with White Scars.
Imperial Fists got nerfed by fully random first turn and more LoS blocking scenery (ruining Super Doctrine turn), plus overcosted Heavy Bolter Centurions and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.

Meanwhile, White Scars got a lot of good close combat units to use their Super Doctrine.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Infiltrators and White scars are both on my list of things where I waffle between thinking they're awesome and thinking they're overkill.

Infiltrators deployed in a line can single-handedly zone out just shy of an entire table quarter, which is pretty darn nice...Unless you planned to have other stuff taking up space in that table quarter anyways in which case you didn't need that extra bubble.

And White Scars have hyper mobility in an edition all about moving onto objective points. But, from all the bat reps I've seen, even slow armies do not seem to have much issue reaching objectives, so outside of threatening that turn 1 charge (when your doctrine isn't active yet) I'm kinda unsure having like 20" movement on all your units does enough for you to be worth giving up other chapter bonuses.


I'd also add Salamanders to the winners list. They're undeniably better and if they're not still too slow then they got crazy good.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Given the way objectives are claimed in many missions now, I'd put 5 Incursors with Haywire mines on the list.
They can deploy directly on midfield objectives and they boobie trap them with their mine. All for 15pts more then 5 Intercessors.

-

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





That sounds like it could be a good tactic. I’m really loving Aggressors and Incursors. Lots of dakka for my IF army.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

DanielFM wrote:
... and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.
Where did it go?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
DanielFM wrote:
... and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.
Where did it go?


Rumored that all Space Marine special detachments from Vigilus are no longer legal in tournament. So you can consider the Siege Breaker Cohorts are technically removed from Warhammer 40k.

Of course, if you play casual game against your friends who brings Imperial Knight or Chaos Knight or 3 Lords of Skulls, and agrees you to use that detachment, you can still do wonder with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Disagree on Scouts, the ability to start the game on objectives and block out sections of the table from Reserves is going to be pretty useful. Plus, with obscuring terrain they will be easier to keep out of harms way while they're accomplishing those goals as well.


I think it would be better to use Infiltrators (Ultramarine, Ironhand, Imperial Fist, etc.) or Incursors (White Scars, Blood Angels and Space Wolves) for that job. They are twice as tough to Scouts, has other special rules and CAN claim that mid-filed objectives much longer to keep your banner raised high under enemy firepower or chargers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
What other units are good for SMs in 9th?


Probably Grav Cannon Devastators in Droppods, anything Primaris that can infiltrate, the Outriders, and the "new melta rifle guys".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/12 04:50:11


 
   
Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




Just saw a video preview of the ATV and turrets, the ATV looks super strong. With that change to Multimeltas, anything that can wield one will be amazing antitank, points allowing. (change is supposed to be 2 shots and at half range d6+2 damage instead of 2d6 discard lower)





 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
DanielFM wrote:
... and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.
Where did it go?


vigilus specialist detachments are not tourny legal thus people are inclined to note use em *shrugs*

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Not tournament legal.

Something people tend to misinterpret as meaning not matched play legal, which is of course a complete falsehood.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So what do people think of the new weapon profiles? I am personally glad to see less random damage weapons.


Also, 2 wound baby space marines? Wow that is game changing!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/13 04:33:36


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Really groovy units:

Infiltrators - especially with smaller battle fields
Inceptors (plasma)
Grav-devs
Terminators
Eradicators
Razorbacks
Scouts

Nerfed:

Centurions
Thunderfire

Jury-is-out:

Whirlwinds
Hell Blasters (depends in plasma overheat rule goes to natural ones)
Tactical marines (if they go to 2 wounds, and points gap to intercessors remains the same, then I think that makes them very, very good).


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/13 23:59:07


 
   
Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




I don't believe in 2w squat marines until i hold the book. My little heart couldn't handle it.
Terminators with cyclones will be the new hotness, grav drop pods will still be great.
I don't even see the Eradicators as good anymore, with ATVs being so cheap, fast and durable with a 2 shot multimelta. Hell even devastator squads might be a thing with multimeltas out of rhinos or razorbacks.





 
   
Made in fr
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle





 XeonDragon wrote:
Really groovy units:

Infiltrators - especially with smaller battle fields
Inceptors
Grav-devs
Terminators
Eradicators
Razorbacks
Scouts

Nerfed:

Centurions
Thunderfire

Jury-is-out:

Whirlwinds
Hell Blasters (depends in plasma overheat rule goes to natural ones)
Tactical marines (if they go to 2 wounds, and points gap to intercessors remains the same, then I think that makes them very, very good).



Inceptors plasma or bolter?

I think only Veterans and such will get 2W for old marines, but I may be wrong.
   
Made in es
Bounding Assault Marine



Madrid, Spain

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not tournament legal.

Something people tend to misinterpret as meaning not matched play legal, which is of course a complete falsehood.


Most people who play tournaments like to play "casual" matched games under the same restrictions, in order to not grow weird habits and to train to use their lists. In my environment, that's pretty much like saying Grand Tournament rules are matched rules.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:I don't believe in 2w squat marines until i hold the book. My little heart couldn't handle it.
Terminators with cyclones will be the new hotness, grav drop pods will still be great.
I don't even see the Eradicators as good anymore, with ATVs being so cheap, fast and durable with a 2 shot multimelta. Hell even devastator squads might be a thing with multimeltas out of rhinos or razorbacks.

An ATV with multimelta is 85, 3 Eradicators are 120. Thus, 120 points shoot as well as 165. The ATVs only give mobility and wounds, while costing a lot more.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I agree with white scars being amazing now. I have been working on scars for a few months, and then the army doctrine changed making them quite good. T3 and on all of their units become a threat against anyone. All attacks at least ap-1 2dmg flat? Ugh.


The biggest problem with trying to do a tactics thread of any relative value for marines at this point its we already know the new codex will bring major changes to almost everything as far as we can tell at this point. Personally i hope tacticals stay 1w, I wouldn't like what 2w tacticals and 3w primaris would mean to the game as a whole.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

DanielFM wrote:
Most people who play tournaments like to play "casual" matched games under the same restrictions, in order to not grow weird habits and to train to use their lists. In my environment, that's pretty much like saying Grand Tournament rules are matched rules.
Goody for them, but tournament rules are not the matched play rules. Just because they "practice" under those restrictions doesn't change the matched play rules for everyone else.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Implacable Skitarii




Ottawa, Canada

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40knewrules13082020&fbclid=IwAR0XkTR9066_jwv3waLGJmQYq8Ya9hqIpI7zF7gb9f0DucnuMvBVUDW6PmA

All Space Marines moving up to 2 wounds. Tactical Marines bumped up to 18 points. Also Flamers are 12". Heavy Bolters D2.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/13 16:56:04


| | Krieg | |
30k: Alpha Legion | | Blackshields 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




“All fully fledged Space Marines” Wonder if this means Scouts will stay 1W? Thematically I like that, though for tabletop purposes it’ll probably mean dumping Scouts/Scout Bikes unless you really really need that scout deploy without justing paying for an Incursor.
   
Made in ca
Implacable Skitarii




Ottawa, Canada

bort wrote:
“All fully fledged Space Marines” Wonder if this means Scouts will stay 1W? Thematically I like that, though for tabletop purposes it’ll probably mean dumping Scouts/Scout Bikes unless you really really need that scout deploy without justing paying for an Incursor.


Scouts will likely stay at the same points cost. So they will be a cheaper Troop alternative.

| | Krieg | |
30k: Alpha Legion | | Blackshields 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 Arko wrote:
 XeonDragon wrote:
Really groovy units:

Infiltrators - especially with smaller battle fields
Inceptors
Grav-devs
Terminators
Eradicators
Razorbacks
Scouts

Nerfed:

Centurions
Thunderfire

Jury-is-out:

Whirlwinds
Hell Blasters (depends in plasma overheat rule goes to natural ones)
Tactical marines (if they go to 2 wounds, and points gap to intercessors remains the same, then I think that makes them very, very good).



Inceptors plasma or bolter?

I think only Veterans and such will get 2W for old marines, but I may be wrong.


I meant plasma inceptors. Edited to fix. Now that 2W old marines are confirmed, it makes a 100-point intercessor squad vs 100-point tactical marine (e.g. 4 x 18 point tacticals + 1 x 18-point sergeant with a combi-plasma) an more nuanced choice
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

I wonder if Inceptor Assault Bolters will make the jump to 2 damage (they are sawed off heavybolters after all), in which case the distinction between the two becomes much harder.
Plasma inceptors pretty much require a source of rerolls or they'll melt themselves. Bolt inceptors can be a bit more free-range.

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 McGibs wrote:
I wonder if Inceptor Assault Bolters will make the jump to 2 damage (they are sawed off heavybolters after all), in which case the distinction between the two becomes much harder.
Plasma inceptors pretty much require a source of rerolls or they'll melt themselves. Bolt inceptors can be a bit more free-range.


Yeah, interesting. Personally, when I use plasma inceptors I try and not overcharge. When I build my lists and do my mathhammer, I always plug in basic plasma not overcharged. My view is that if the plasma version of a unit stacks up from a points-per-point of a damage inflicted perspective without overcharging, it is worth taking. If not, it isn't.

D2 assault bolters would shift things I think.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





So here's a thought, with the 2 wounds buff... right now tac marines and grey hunters are the same points cost. if that remains the case.. suddenly Grey Hunters are going to be amazing, being basicly cheaper intercessors with out the AP -1 rifles.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I mean... grey hunters are already amazing as they compared to tactical marines so.... yes? Lol.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 McGibs wrote:
I wonder if Inceptor Assault Bolters will make the jump to 2 damage (they are sawed off heavybolters after all), in which case the distinction between the two becomes much harder.
The new Codex is going to introduce Heavy Intercessors, armed with Heavy Bolt Rifles. I suspect that's where we'll see that change.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I thought we agreed that we would not be starting this new thread until the new dex is out?
   
 
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