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I’m guessing a close combat Sx2 but no shooting - potentially a grenade harness for future editions when they may or may not bring back frag grenades for fights first in cover stuff.

Between Gravis, the Storm Shield for the invulnerable, and the veteran/Deathwing paint jobs I’m guessing these guys are the new Terminators. Alternately we could see Aggressors also end up in veteran/Death Company livery and they’re the shooty ones (thus no Stormshield But lots of dakka or or flame) and and alternate load here will be Some sort of Primaris Thunderhammer. Potentially just a Primaris sculpt of the already available here and there Thunderhammer.

IIRC from the pic GW put out of the full bladeguard vet kit, at least one (the sarge) can have a plasma pistol.

Yeah, that multipart pic is our best guess so far, even if it doesn't give away a lot. I wish for some variants in blades, maybe shortsword/broadsword, and or a glaive perhaps?

Also: Bladeguard do not wear Gravis armour. They are a type of veteran, but definitely not the "terminator replacement".

Yeah, that's not Gravis armour.

I also doubt you'll see them armed with squad-wide hammers/other melee weapons beyond swords. They're *Blade*guard - and I know that doesn't always mean to be quite so literal (after all, a Baneblade has no swords!) but Primaris are pretty obtuse on the naming front.

I think what's likely to be there in terms of weapon options will be the plasma pistol and maybe a hammer on the Sergeant, but that's as far as I see it going, myself.

My question is... what's stopping people who buy multiple boxes from using the captain and lieutenant as more bladguard, especially since they seem to be legit options. Maybe change the backpacks or something.

 Darnok wrote:
Yeah, that multipart pic is our best guess so far, even if it doesn't give away a lot. I wish for some variants in blades, maybe shortsword/broadsword, and or a glaive perhaps?

Also: Bladeguard do not wear Gravis armour. They are a type of veteran, but definitely not the "terminator replacement".

It depends what 'terminator replacement' means. If you specifically mean that the armor has to be 'super-special,' then no. If you just mean the general statline and combat role, then... mostly yes. At least for assault terminators (though bladeguard have more attacks and are slightly faster). The main difference may simply be the lack of heavy punching weapons (x2 S), thoughly we'll see what the kit brings.

 Polonius wrote:
My question is... what's stopping people who buy multiple boxes from using the captain and lieutenant as more bladguard, especially since they seem to be legit options. Maybe change the backpacks or something.

Nothing? Sounds like a great idea. I used my extra LT and Ancient bodies from my second Dark Imperium for some fancier intercessor sarges. I could definetly see myself picking up one of the starters for an extra Bladeguard LT.

I do think these models are pretty amazing and all in all the primaris line has been getting better and better with every release.

But it just further depresses me when I realise that they have PISTOLS with longer ranges than the eldar shuriken catapult.........

 Hellebore wrote:
I do think these models are pretty amazing and all in all the primaris line has been getting better and better with every release.

very much so, I like the units that reward you for playing aggressively.

 Hellebore wrote:
But it just further depresses me when I realise that they have PISTOLS with longer ranges than the eldar shuriken catapult.........

very much so, catapults are quite pathetic in comparison.

Man I just want to see a thunderhamer, power axe, power maul, power flail. Just one even. O man how I'd like that.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yeah, that's not Gravis armour.

I also doubt you'll see them armed with squad-wide hammers/other melee weapons beyond swords. They're *Blade*guard - and I know that doesn't always mean to be quite so literal (after all, a Baneblade has no swords!) but Primaris are pretty obtuse on the naming front.

I think what's likely to be there in terms of weapon options will be the plasma pistol and maybe a hammer on the Sergeant, but that's as far as I see it going, myself.

The shoulderpads, and hip guards (but not the boots) feel awful Gravis-ey. The hip guards aren't strictly Gravis only, but usually only on Non-gravis but still Close Combat oriented models like Captains/LT's. The Shoulderpads are on the Gravis Captain, Inceptors, and Aggressors. I assumed they were like the Eradicators which ironically don't have the Gravis shoulder pads but do have Gravis style boots.

The alternate load out would not necessarily keep them as "Blade Guard" See Infiltrators/Incursors. It could be one box (Deathwing Command/Knights, Incursor/Infiltrator Ravenwing Command/Black Knights Vengeance/Dark Shroud etc) makes two different units based on the bits used.. If they get a medium range tank buster assault/rapid fire they could easily get a Breacher Squad pop culture reference name.

When I talk "Terminator Replacement" I'm talking about similar tabletop roles and similar fluff i.e. Deathwing, Wolfguard etc.inclusion. Aggressors easily "replace" the Tactical/Shooty Terminators on the table top, but aren't (yet) fluffy replacements. Bladeguard are both painted as First Company, and have the medium range shooting plus invuln, + some close combat.

Of course I also think GW isn't quite sure what they want to do with 1st Company yet anyway. (And Ravenwing, and other deviated companies thus this being one of the first units with Deathwing livery/heraldry - I haven't seen any GW Painted Dark Angels Chapter Outriders yet - which could be because they don't have enough to paint in multiple chapters and sell - or they're saving it for the codex/supplement because all DA Bike Units (not Characters They never figured out a DA 2nd Company Chaplain might be in the Ravenwing per the rules) are Ravenwing prior to Primaris).There are a number of ways it could go, making Aggressors First Company retroactively. Making first companies the same as normal battle companies just with "Veterans" that may or may nor have a cost and/or bonus. They've got some fluff to hammer out for the 10th company too, but that is WAY back burnered until they're finished replacing tabletop roles for Primaris/Old Marine. The easiest 10th company solutoin is that everyone in the 10th company is either a Scout, or in Phobos, (which lets them continue the evolution of a space Marine story hook - Phobos to Eradicator/Hellblaster/Aggressor/etc - to Inceptors and a lot of stuff we don't have released or named yet vis a vis Assault Marines , to Intercessors, to Bladeguard and... whatever their counterpart is) and the other battle companies from time to time have some units suit back up in phobos as the mission rquires explaining Phobos Primaris with Battle Company trim.

Anyway, back to the question Just about every unit box has two significantly different options. Plasma/Dakka Inceptors. Dakka/Kill It With Fire Aggressors, Sniper/Really Big Las Gun or Kinda Small Las Cannon Eliminators, Incursor/Infiltrator, Heavy/Assault/Rapid Plasma Hellblasters, and so on... Whats the other option for these guys which may or may not be a different unit name but will likely also be limited to 3 person squads so I'd expect them to keep the Storm Shield I'm still guessing some sort of Melta or Las Anti-Tank and they become Shield Breachers or something

Togusa wrote:Man I just want to see a thunderhamer, power axe, power maul, power flail. Just one even. O man how I'd like that.

Well, there's nothing really stopping you from giving them axes, mauls or flails. Just do them as count-as weapons, even if it turns out that you only get swords on the actual datasheet. There's shouldn't be any confusion, as Bladeguard Vets look distinct from other units (on account of their shields).

Breton wrote:The shoulderpads, and hip guards (but not the boots) feel awful Gravis-ey. The hip guards aren't strictly Gravis only, but usually only on Non-gravis but still Close Combat oriented models like Captains/LT's. The Shoulderpads are on the Gravis Captain, Inceptors, and Aggressors. I assumed they were like the Eradicators which ironically don't have the Gravis shoulder pads but do have Gravis style boots.

Well, they lack the Gravis keyword on their datasheets. Similarly, they have a smaller backpack, the boots are much smaller, closer to standard Primaris, there's no "hood" that Gravis uses, and the arms are less armoured.

I dunno, I just never got a Gravis feeling from them.

They do have some extra armor. Kinda the opposite of phobos. Not enough to move away fomr a 3+ save in a d6 system, but these guys would be harder to kill on a more granular system, even before the shields.

As for duel kit options? Really hard to guess. Right not why are defensive CC, geared for killing MEQ. They could shift to offense buy dropping the sheild, and going with a extra weapon, or a big two hander. Or they could go with shooty vets, over CC ones. The poses of the bodies are not running/jumping, as we often see in assault troops, so they might be alt-shooty. Or they might have gone with a more grounded look to go with the shields.

I suspect the kit with come with at least 4 shields. We see the one on the back, and I imagine they will still want enough in the box for everyone to have one on their arm.

We know Mk X is a modular system. The Bladeguard look to have used the over-pauldrons and increased mid-section armour plating similar to Gravis for melee defense, but largely over a Tacticus suit for mobility. Similar to how Suppressors are using a hybrid armour type.

Kit options likely: Sergeant plasma, shield on backpack or on arm, sword sheathed or held, pistols holstered or held.

yeah I doubt they'll have any additional weapons. although a big two handed sword would be a nice touch.

They've given every primaris unit several weapon options when properly released haven't they? Inceptors, Phobos, intercessors etc have all gotten several different weapon options.

So it's in keeping with previous releases that they will.

Although this new wave could be the start of single equip units - trying to think what the assault intercessors could have as an alternative load.

At the very least there will be Sergeant options, maybe a relic blade, or hammer

 Hellebore wrote:
They've given every primaris unit several weapon options when properly released haven't they? Inceptors, Phobos, intercessors etc have all gotten several different weapon options.

Reivers had multiple weapon options, not Phobos in general.
Incursors(Oculus Bolt Carbine) and Infiltrators(Marksman Bolt Carbines) are single weapon units.
Incursors can take Haywire Mines though(1 per unit...means running them in 10s is kinda pointless if you want maximum Haywire Mineage) and the Infiltrators get the Apothecary Lite and a Radio Operator that gives them auras from Phobos Captains or Lieutenants across the board.

So it's in keeping with previous releases that they will.
Although this new wave could be the start of single equip units - trying to think what the assault intercessors could have as an alternative load.
At the very least there will be Sergeant options, maybe a relic blade, or hammer

Heh, I wouldn't be shocked if there's hand flamers at least for Assault Intercessors.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
They've given every primaris unit several weapon options when properly released haven't they? Inceptors, Phobos, intercessors etc have all gotten several different weapon options.

Reivers had multiple weapon options, not Phobos in general.
Incursors(Oculus Bolt Carbine) and Infiltrators(Marksman Bolt Carbines) are single weapon units.
Incursors can take Haywire Mines though(1 per unit...means running them in 10s is kinda pointless if you want maximum Haywire Mineage) and the Infiltrators get the Apothecary Lite and a Radio Operator that gives them auras from Phobos Captains or Lieutenants across the board.

So it's in keeping with previous releases that they will.
Although this new wave could be the start of single equip units - trying to think what the assault intercessors could have as an alternative load.
At the very least there will be Sergeant options, maybe a relic blade, or hammer

Heh, I wouldn't be shocked if there's hand flamers at least for Assault Intercessors.

We’re talking about the box they come in once they go full retail. All the Easy To Build Boxed Sets started with one option, but once they got a retail box they got options. Incursors and Infiltrators are the same box not? Eliminators got a second weapon when they went retail box. The Suppressors stuck with one option if I remember.

Suppressors never got a separate box.

Which of course adds weight to the argument.

Breton wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
They've given every primaris unit several weapon options when properly released haven't they? Inceptors, Phobos, intercessors etc have all gotten several different weapon options.

Reivers had multiple weapon options, not Phobos in general.
Incursors(Oculus Bolt Carbine) and Infiltrators(Marksman Bolt Carbines) are single weapon units.
Incursors can take Haywire Mines though(1 per unit...means running them in 10s is kinda pointless if you want maximum Haywire Mineage) and the Infiltrators get the Apothecary Lite and a Radio Operator that gives them auras from Phobos Captains or Lieutenants across the board.

So it's in keeping with previous releases that they will.
Although this new wave could be the start of single equip units - trying to think what the assault intercessors could have as an alternative load.
At the very least there will be Sergeant options, maybe a relic blade, or hammer

Heh, I wouldn't be shocked if there's hand flamers at least for Assault Intercessors.

We’re talking about the box they come in once they go full retail. All the Easy To Build Boxed Sets started with one option, but once they got a retail box they got options. Incursors and Infiltrators are the same box not? Eliminators got a second weapon when they went retail box. The Suppressors stuck with one option if I remember.

Suppressors never went full retail.

Voss wrote:
Suppressors never got a separate box.

Which of course adds weight to the argument.

There’s a reason for that... and it’s the same reason I never checked.

Breton wrote:

We’re talking about the box they come in once they go full retail. All the Easy To Build Boxed Sets started with one option, but once they got a retail box they got options. Incursors and Infiltrators are the same box not? Eliminators got a second weapon when they went retail box. The Suppressors stuck with one option if I remember.

Incursors and Infiltrators are the same box...but different units. It's not "Infiltrators can take an Oculus Bolt Carbine" or anything like that. Their unit options are related to them having different unit compositions, not weapon options.

Inceptors, Intercessors, Aggressors, Reivers, and Helblasters are all one unit that got different weapon options. Heck, Eliminators(the sniper teams) got two weapon options. The Las Fusil(pocket lascannon!) and Shrike pattern Bolt Sniper Rifle.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Togusa wrote:Man I just want to see a thunderhamer, power axe, power maul, power flail. Just one even. O man how I'd like that.

Well, there's nothing really stopping you from giving them axes, mauls or flails. Just do them as count-as weapons, even if it turns out that you only get swords on the actual datasheet. There's shouldn't be any confusion, as Bladeguard Vets look distinct from other units (on account of their shields).

Breton wrote:The shoulderpads, and hip guards (but not the boots) feel awful Gravis-ey. The hip guards aren't strictly Gravis only, but usually only on Non-gravis but still Close Combat oriented models like Captains/LT's. The Shoulderpads are on the Gravis Captain, Inceptors, and Aggressors. I assumed they were like the Eradicators which ironically don't have the Gravis shoulder pads but do have Gravis style boots.

Well, they lack the Gravis keyword on their datasheets. Similarly, they have a smaller backpack, the boots are much smaller, closer to standard Primaris, there's no "hood" that Gravis uses, and the arms are less armoured.

I dunno, I just never got a Gravis feeling from them.

Yeah I'm annoyed with people saying they want a rule for every melee weapon. Uh, the sword already has good stats. You don't need to snowflake every weapon. Just use whatever bitz you got. Wanna give them all Spears? Just go for it

but a sword, axe and spear are fundamentally different in both how you wield them and their tactics on a battlefield.

as in the other thread, D10 would allow you to have numbers space to make each feel unique without clogging up "balance".

Racerguy180 wrote:
but a sword, axe and spear are fundamentally different in both how you wield them and their tactics on a battlefield.

So would a chainsword and combat knife, but they have the same weapon profile.

I was definitely in the camp of "yay, bespoke power axe/sword/maul" combos back in 6th, but to be totally honest, right now, I think "power weapon" would be better. It could encourage more conversions, especially on traditionally "sworded" models like these Bladeguard, or on something like Primaris Captains.

Racerguy180 wrote:
but a sword, axe and spear are fundamentally different in both how you wield them and their tactics on a battlefield.

as in the other thread, D10 would allow you to have numbers space to make each feel unique without clogging up "balance".

Funny how AoS makes them all fight differently and still uses a D6.

Spears get a longer range, axes/hammers tend to get a bit more 'oomph' for wounding but don't hit as reliably, swords hit more reliably and have more attacks but less 'oomph'.
'Oomph' is the technical term for Rend and Damage characteristics, clearly.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
but a sword, axe and spear are fundamentally different in both how you wield them and their tactics on a battlefield.

as in the other thread, D10 would allow you to have numbers space to make each feel unique without clogging up "balance".

Funny how AoS makes them all fight differently and still uses a D6.

Spears get a longer range, axes/hammers tend to get a bit more 'oomph' for wounding but don't hit as reliably, swords hit more reliably and have more attacks but less 'oomph'.
'Oomph' is the technical term for Rend and Damage characteristics, clearly.

AoS is also not as gak as 40k is ever since they got new writers that care a smidge about the game instead of the whole "yell at your opponent to do more damage" crap.

Racerguy180 wrote:
but a sword, axe and spear are fundamentally different in both how you wield them and their tactics on a battlefield...

There are nine patterns of power armour in the game (ignoring sub-patterns, mixed armour, and other variants). They all give a 3+ armour save. How about Ryza vs. Ultima vs. Godwyn-pattern boltguns? They can't all be perfectly identical, there must be some difference between them.

At some point you have to draw a line and say "these things may be different, but we're trying to make a game that can represent a large variety of armies that you can play quickly, so maybe some of the small details don't need to be that different in-game".

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
but a sword, axe and spear are fundamentally different in both how you wield them and their tactics on a battlefield...

There are nine patterns of power armour in the game (ignoring sub-patterns, mixed armour, and other variants). They all give a 3+ armour save. How about Ryza vs. Ultima vs. Godwyn-pattern boltguns? They can't all be perfectly identical, there must be some difference between them.

At some point you have to draw a line and say "these things may be different, but we're trying to make a game that can represent a large variety of armies that you can play quickly, so maybe some of the small details don't need to be that different in-game".

Hell most people, even on this forum, think the separate rules for the different patterns of Terminators is pretty unnecessary.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

AoS is also not as gak as 40k

I dont know, the double turn is a thing...

Also the power gap between newer books and older books is just as crazy. Compare Stormcast who are on an older tome to Bonereapers. Its insane.