Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Last week a kickstarter appeared for a reprint of Dungeon Universalis, a dungeon crawler that looks to be highly flexible and nearing RPG status in terms of scope and flexibility

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dungeonuniversalis/dungeon-universalis-second-printing

It comes with a full campaign, but also includes enough monster profiles (800!) to deal with almost anything in your collection. It can be played solo all the way up to 6 players (with one being the Dark Player) with multiple modes of play:

-Standard mode with a Dark Player: The Dark Player is one more player who competes against the other players.
-Cooperative mode: a 100% cooperative game, without a Dark Player.
-Lone-wolf mode: only one player, one hero.
-RPG mode: the Dark Player is omniscient (just like a classical RPG master).
-Open-map mode: rules for scenarios without a gridded floor. Ideal for playing on tables with 3D scenarios.
-Individual mode: players gain experience according to their individual achievements.

For those of you that want bucket loads of miniatures... this isn't the campaign for you. This focuses on the rules and supports them with standees, but encourages you to replace those with your own collection.

One of the recurring comments from the first edition was that it was overly detailed for solo play, so they have added a Basic ruleset that allows you to play with a more streamlined setup if you want to. Due to the scope of enemy profiles, they were all in book format which slowed down play, especially when running it on your own; this time around there is a deck of cards that features all of the profiles that you will encounter during the main campaign so you can pull all of these cards out before you start.

As well as rule tweaks and enhancements, like the monster cards, there is a new campaign book to add another long adventure to the game. For those groups that like to get competitive, even during a co-op game, there's a new deck of hidden agendas for the players to stab each other in the back.

There's too much info to try and cram in here, so I'd suggest having a read of the KS page and watching some of the videos to get an idea. For me, this looks like it has potential to be the holy grail of crawlers

Oh. Stretch goals are being done on the number of backers, rather than financial totals this time around (which is causing debate in the comments), but so far we've unlocked a bunch of additional scenarios and a mini campaign

Thanks, backed this one. I was looking for a rpg style crawler and this seems to hit the spot.

I'm not its target audience but I think it's great if :

* You're fine with standees. DUN has 300+ of them. Nice. BGG has a good number of players who prefer standees, and even RPGs like Pathfinder use standees.

* You're fine with 2D floor tiles. DUN has 40+ of them. 2D floor tiles are standard for boardgame dungeoncrawlers.

* You want a campaign. This is also a standard. I *think* you can play scenarios individually, but I'll let someone answer this.

* You want a coop or solo game. This is also a standard for boardgames. Unfortunately, pretty much all RPG's require a Game Master to administrate the game. and solo is rarely a standard.

* You like the option of character generation. I know some RPG'ers who really enjoy this aspect of RPG's. Boardgames almost never off this. it's a standard in RPG's.

* You want to design your own scenarios and campaigns, or adapt existing ones. This is a *great* feature, that's almost never seen in boardgames. It's a standard in RPG's, although you can buy premade adventures.

DUN looks to be the closest dungeoncrawler boardgame to an actual RPG. I think it lacks city adventuring, although it does have events between dungeoncrawls, which I think is a fun feature.

D&D starter sets are $15, so would be a better fit for those who don't want to commit to a full-blown campaign and can actually play D&D. However, the D&D core books are $50 each (other RPG core books are cheaper, especially in PDF form), and I rarely see them on discount. And that's before you buy the standees, 2D boards, and any premade adventures. Gloomhaven works better for our gaming group, because we like hand-management games, and GH's ability to allow players to skip games. (DUN has allies, but I didn't look closely how players can catch up with experience points if they don't attend sessions.) Gloomhaven's Jaws of a Lion can be found around $40.

Holy crap, this looks amazing. Some next level Warhammer Quest/Shadows of Brimstone sounds perfect!

Thanks for posting this endtransmission - I've been looking at it for a while and wondering whether to take the leap.

This looks like the really further extension of Heroquest/Dungeon crawl in terms of campaign and character progression.

There is the existing campaign there but I like the toolkit elements. The fact that it is set in what looks like quite a standard 'old world fantasy' means I'm hoping I can use my existing fantasy collection of WHFB minis in place of the stand-ins.

Yes, it's a pretty fantastic game and the only thing that comes close to Advanced Hero Quest from back in the days. Went all in in the original campaign and didn't regret it. Also masses of enemy types, the bestiaries depict almost anything you could throw on the table, including many GW favourites.
I am most thrilled for the easier rules, as the toolkit approach makes this a bit much for players that just want a quick dungeon romp.

For those who have played it, how is character progression, and how far does it go?

I love Shadows of Brimstone as a dungeon hack, but am always saddened that you can hit the level cap in a couple weeks despite them already selling years upon years of expansion content. It makes characters feel really disposable vs. RPG characters.

How is setup and tear down for this game? Looks like almost TOO many components.

I have and love gloomhaven, but I use helper apps for a lot of the various tracking, as otherwise it would take ages to set the game up.

My wife and I play Gloomhaven 2-3 times a week and combined setup and tear-down really is about 30-40 minutes. Its very chunky for such a mechanically simple game.

Jaws of a Lion (and the Gloomhaven scenario books which print the map in the book, rather than have you assemble them) save a fair amount of time. I also set up the components the day before the game.

Anyway, for DUN, here's a video review of the first printing someone on BGG recommended. Jump to 9:40 when you get tired of his intro.

An important point the reviewer makes is that DUN --at least for first edition -- isn't a "open the box and play" game. There're a fair amount of learning and prep (?) to do. However, if you're an RPG'er, and maybe a wargamer, this shouldn't be a problem. You're used to poring over rules and spending an hour generating characters. (Second edition will have pregens and faster play basic rules.) It's just many boardgamers want start playing as soon as they sit at the table (remember -- boardgamers are the ones who make your painting a pain because they want pre-assembled miniatures

This game is only being sold via KS (easy guess is that the 40%+ discount distributors want before they'll even look at a game eats into profit), so maybe a third edition will come around if you skip this one. DUN is originally in Spanish, and, for US backers, hopefully, the second edition has taken care of translation issues.

Sorry, can't compare to Gloomhaven, as I don't have it.
I find it most comparable to Advanced Hero Quest and the sandbox elements should not be underestimated. That is why I am looking forward to the easier rules that come with the new campaign.
It is by far no RPG, but gives you the possibility (!) to simulate a lot of aspects, travel a map, explore sites, grind, participate in story campaigns, level up and develop very individually. This is not a must, but if I just want to kill some baddies, I rather put Massive Darkness on the table.
That said, I really like it, the campaign was very well handled from the developers, there is a free web version for onlineplay and the box is so huge and heavy! Chock full of stuff. Recommended!

Quasistellar wrote:
How is setup and tear down for this game? Looks like almost TOO many components.
I have and love gloomhaven, but I use helper apps for a lot of the various tracking, as otherwise it would take ages to set the game up.

There is a helper app that you can get that helps with characters, campaign management and map exploration during the game, knocking out a few of the card decks by the looks of it. There's also a website that allows you to either design new maps, or randomly generate one and play online with friends http://worldofarasca.dungeonuniversalis.com/

Thanks a lot for the comments and details Garfield666. The more I read about this game the more I like the sound of it, so will probably pledge before the campaign is run. I have Massive Darkness, Zombicide etc. if we want a quick-blast fun game, this looks like something you could really get sink your teeth into and enjoy if put the time into it.

I'm not a massive fan of the cardboard stand-ins but understand the need for them if you want to be able to play quickly and before 2025 - I will probably start picking up some miniatures from Reaper, Otherworld etc. if I don't already have things I can use from WHFB.

Glad to be of help.
One thing regarding the cardboard standees - initially I thought "pfffft... I don't need these. This is the oportunity to get some of the bazillion unused miniatures on the table again"...
But they are really nice and handy... And DU comes already with a tidy, sorted storage system in the box, so all cards and standees are seperated and numbered.
If you want to play scenario XY, you directly see which cards, boards and standees to take out of the box. I really like such gimmicks!

Doing all the research I could, I do see how people say this is as close to a proper roleplaying game on the tabletop as you can get without a DM and a dedicated system.

Its resemblance to D&D 5E tactical combat mode has me thinking this one looks pretty fun, and not as heavy as the board-gamers at BGG are making it sound.

I'm easily going all in on this one.

IMO, BGG has too wide a range of gamers (eg. Eurogamers) to get an idea of how "heavy" a game is. For an Ameritrash game, I'll look at the review to get an idea of how complicated the game is. You're also going to have to put in work compared to "out of the box" boardgames to prepare a scenario. It's not as much as a DM in preparing an adventure, but more than most campaign dungeoncrawlers. That might be a dealbreaker if you're not playing solo and your boardgaming group doesn't decide on what to play until everyone shows up. Or someone drops out at the last minute and you have to re-prepare the adventure. Of course, if you like designing adventures, DUN should be a perfect fit.

I get that Ced. I mean, as a miniatures war-gamer first, and p&p RPG player second (boardgamer distant third), this game looks downright typical and accessible. :-p

 Garfield666 wrote:
Glad to be of help.
One thing regarding the cardboard standees - initially I thought "pfffft... I don't need these. This is the oportunity to get some of the bazillion unused miniatures on the table again"...
But they are really nice and handy... And DU comes already with a tidy, sorted storage system in the box, so all cards and standees are seperated and numbered.
If you want to play scenario XY, you directly see which cards, boards and standees to take out of the box. I really like such gimmicks!

Ah that is quite interesting to know!

It will be nice to have the option to do either stand-ins or miniatures, and if there is a substantial amount of setup required (I'm used to doing this for my gaming group so not too bothered by the prospect) anything that will help will be useful, especially if there is a metric tonne of content in the box!

Homepage updated with a SG summary graphic. Looks like, if you're only buying the core set, you get six-month access to their online app, and a half-a-percent chance to add some fluff (eg. NPC name) to a future product. That's it.

Future SG's, so far, are additional content for the Campagn & Quest Book II add-on.

No intention to sell the game retail. I presume the deep discounts distributors require (even before they decide to carry the game) make the game too costly to sell outside of KS.

From what I heard it's a merry RNG fest with hardly any intellectual challenge, no competition for Gloomhaven.

The dials were unlocked yesterday, so we'r enow on our way towards the Boss mini

Cyel wrote:
From what I heard it's a merry RNG fest with hardly any intellectual challenge, no competition for Gloomhaven.

Apples and oranges. Gloomhaven is a hand-management Euro style game that while great, barely resembles a dungeon-crawl or a RPG.

I liked the map and between adventure parts of Gloomhaven... but really didn't get on with the card system at all for the actual levels, so for me DU fits the bill really nicely as a crawler

DU actually seems soooo close to D&D that it has me debating just running D&D again for my family, and running the tactical combat+tiles.

Still a fair old way to get to that boss mini.

I'm thinking of using LoTR minis with this, would be a great way to get some more mileage out of that range.

To be fair, I'm not overly bothered about the minis as I have about a million alternatives kicking around already... but it's nice to see it still climbing