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Now that I could read the new codex it seems like they're changing the necron background once again.

It looks like the idea that the necrontyr evolved under a very bale star that sleeted them with radiation storms and afflicted them with diseases and conditions that made their lives shoprt and hellish has been excused, and instead they went for the mechanization just to win the war with the old ones.

My reaction:




I thought the concept of the necrons having bodies that were afflicted with cancer, disease, organ failure, etc made them at least a little sympathetic. It make the understandable, as to why they;'d embrace being turned into machines to escape the pain, frailty, weakness, etc of their bodies.

Now, they did it just to win a war with the old ones?

I just don't like the idea that they're trying to make the necrons more villainous. I preferred them as being at least somewhat victims of bad circumstances.

Let me understand: so did the whole thing about the alliance with the C'tan and the war against the Old Ones never happen?
I hope they found out a way to preserve that, but anyway my opinion is…

I never loved the retcon, above all that retcon try to change something that works perfectly well.

The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Let me understand: so did the whole thing about the alliance with the C'tan an the war against the Old Ones never happened?

No, the c'tan did come to the necrontyr as they were losing the war and offered to give them new bodies to win it. That seems to be why TSK forced the biotransferrence on his race, not because they were mostly living in a state of suffering and illness now.

My bad: I haven't read your post with enough attention, but I totally agree with you: the Necron story was one of most tragic thing I ever read and if you remove that tragedy from their past, then you will remove a great part of their charm.

Well, they did include the short-lived aspect of their lives and the fact that they were united by the Silent King against the Old Ones since they were not given the secrets of immortality by them. Probably should have included the bale star part but honestly that never made that much sense to begin with since you'd think a race that advanced would be able to address that issue with their level of tech if humans are already able to extend their lives considerably even though they are waaaay behind Necrons tech-wise. Also, part of the draw was stated to be the immortality aspect of becoming Necrons, so it wasn't just defeating the Old Ones that enticed them to make the bargain with the C'tan.

 Grimskul wrote:
Well, they did include the short-lived aspect of their lives and the fact that they were united by the Silent King against the Old Ones since they were not given the secrets of immortality by them. Probably should have included the bale star part but honestly that never made that much sense to begin with since you'd think a race that advanced would be able to address that issue with their level of tech if humans are already able to extend their lives considerably even though they are waaaay behind Necrons tech-wise. Also, part of the draw was stated to be the immortality aspect of becoming Necrons, so it wasn't just defeating the Old Ones that enticed them to make the bargain with the C'tan.

It might be that Necrons basically "solved" physics but did not have perfect tech with respect to the biological sciences. Combine that with a biology that degraded rapidly compared to a human's, and it may have been an intractable problem.

There is no hole in a fictional narrative that cannot be handwaved away by someone with sufficient encouragement. I love sci fi

the blaestar being the only source of the necrons issues nevermade any sense anyway, this is a starfaring race

BrianDavion wrote:
the blaestar being the only source of the necrons issues nevermade any sense anyway, this is a starfaring race

Indeed. The prolem isn't pertinent the moment they colonise another planet and they certainly colonised thousands if not millions of worlds before going in stasis. The "they body jumped to avoid cancer caused by solar radiation" was a stupid piece of fluff that wasn't needed.

I agree with everything said above; the bale star part was dumb, but keeping their life spans short wasn't.

That said tech mastery, plus short life spans, plus lack of connection to the warp sure make that fan theory that the Tau are a living remnant of the old meat and bone Necrontyr seem nice.

The way I always understood old Necron fluff is that their star cancer was directly caused by the C'tan who happened to live on their original homeworld's star, the Nightbringer. So they couldn't solve the problem scientifically because of evil star god shenanigans.

epronovost wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the blaestar being the only source of the necrons issues nevermade any sense anyway, this is a starfaring race

Indeed. The prolem isn't pertinent the moment they colonise another planet and they certainly colonised thousands if not millions of worlds before going in stasis. The "they body jumped to avoid cancer caused by solar radiation" was a stupid piece of fluff that wasn't needed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the DNA of the Necrotyr was so badly damaged by the radiations of their sun, that they weren't able to have a better life not even living on another solar system.

The_Grim_Angel wrote:

epronovost wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the blaestar being the only source of the necrons issues nevermade any sense anyway, this is a starfaring race

Indeed. The prolem isn't pertinent the moment they colonise another planet and they certainly colonised thousands if not millions of worlds before going in stasis. The "they body jumped to avoid cancer caused by solar radiation" was a stupid piece of fluff that wasn't needed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the DNA of the Necrotyr was so badly damaged by the radiations of their sun, that they weren't able to have a better life not even living on another solar system.

That was definitely the argument, They'd evolved short, desperate lives to survive on an inhospitable planet. This happens to humans now - once you're past reproductive age, evolution doesn't care what happens to you which is why most diseases and cancers appear then. So long as you passed on genes you're a success, regardless of how crappy your life was after that.


it does boggle the mind that they couldn't fix themselves though, given their tech level. If there was an area of science they would be INTENSELY interested in, it would be medicine and genetics.


So i tend to think of it as relative. While they were alone they though that's just the way life was. I imagine their medical tech improved their lifespans in the same way ours did. But they were still imperfect. Then they met immortal demigods and did a grass is always greener spit take. That built up resentment and anger, not because they believed they sucked per se, but because the old ones were SO MUCH BETTER it made them seem like diseased peasants, blighted by their existence.

It's not unlike how a human might feel meeting an eldar and realising they would live 10+ times longer than them, making them seem crap by comparison.


The search for immortality was suddenly within reach but cruelly kept away by uncaring gods. So the necrons followed in the footsteps of prometheus and tried to steal fire from the gods. But they were smacked down and punished, left to languish in their own flawed forms until heracles came to rescue them. Unfortunately rather than a hero, heracles turned out to be a self serving god of his own and offered another path to immortality.

 Hellebore wrote:
[…]
So i tend to think of it as relative. While they were alone they though that's just the way life was. I imagine their medical tech improved their lifespans in the same way ours did. But they were still imperfect. Then they met immortal demigods and did a grass is always greener spit take. That built up resentment and anger, not because they believed they sucked per se, but because the old ones were SO MUCH BETTER it made them seem like diseased peasants, blighted by their existence.
[…]

Like it happened in Unbreakable, when Elijah Price/Samuel L. Jackson met David Dunn/Bruce Willis

 Hellebore wrote:
[…]
The search for immortality was suddenly within reach but cruelly kept away by uncaring gods. So the necrons followed in the footsteps of prometheus and tried to steal fire from the gods. But they were smacked down and punished, left to languish in their own flawed forms until heracles came to rescue them. Unfortunately rather than a hero, heracles turned out to be a self serving god of his own and offered another path to immortality.

Like a mouse who ask to a cat for protection from its kittens.

Regarding Necron “lore”, I would have preferred less history and more mystery. The history has been fairly lame.

epronovost wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the blaestar being the only source of the necrons issues nevermade any sense anyway, this is a starfaring race

Indeed. The prolem isn't pertinent the moment they colonise another planet and they certainly colonised thousands if not millions of worlds before going in stasis. The "they body jumped to avoid cancer caused by solar radiation" was a stupid piece of fluff that wasn't needed.

I think it was in Indomitus, that it was mentioned that the star radiation altered them on a genetic level, so even when they moved to the other stars the effects stuck with them. Not exactly a great explanation, but it is there.

The problem now is, the Silent King's master plan is to... go back to that. Because reasons.

Its very
1) Become mortal again (except as another species?)
2) ????
3) Profit!
Wait, what?

And also when we last saw him, he deleted all his command codes for other necron and left in shame and self-recrimination. And he's back, has the codes again, and will simply force them all through another biotransference because he's the tyrant and stuff.
Because... other reasons.

This plot for a character who was a late and largely irrelevant addition to the lore is so incredibly shallow and uncompelling.
Imotekh, Trazyn and the Deceiver were far more interesting than this. Just having them be straight up xenos-eqyptian conquerors was more interesting than this mess. I don't care about how the robots feel inside and stuff, or watch space marines act as vaccine to a 'lie down and die' space broadcast for humans.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Regarding Necron “lore”, I would have preferred less history and more mystery. The history has been fairly lame.

The more a faction gets fleshed out, the more the mystery disappears. It's rather inevitable.

Voss wrote:
The problem now is, the Silent King's master plan is to... go back to that. Because reasons.

Its very
1) Become mortal again (except as another species?)
2) ????
3) Profit!
Wait, what?

And also when we last saw him, he deleted all his command codes for other necron and left in shame and self-recrimination. And he's back, has the codes again, and will simply force them all through another biotransference because he's the tyrant and stuff.
Because... other reasons.

This plot for a character who was a late and largely irrelevant addition to the lore is so incredibly shallow and uncompelling.
Imotekh, Trazyn and the Deceiver were far more interesting than this. Just having them be straight up xenos-eqyptian conquerors was more interesting than this mess. I don't care about how the robots feel inside and stuff, or watch space marines act as vaccine to a 'lie down and die' space broadcast for humans.

The Mustache whirling villainy of the Silent King was only in the community articles, that fluff didn't really materialize in the actual codex. The codes are still destroyed, and he is not a tyrant at all in the codex fluff. I'm really not sure where the stuff from the community articles came from.

 Sasori wrote:

Voss wrote:
The problem now is, the Silent King's master plan is to... go back to that. Because reasons.

Its very
1) Become mortal again (except as another species?)
2) ????
3) Profit!
Wait, what?

And also when we last saw him, he deleted all his command codes for other necron and left in shame and self-recrimination. And he's back, has the codes again, and will simply force them all through another biotransference because he's the tyrant and stuff.
Because... other reasons.

This plot for a character who was a late and largely irrelevant addition to the lore is so incredibly shallow and uncompelling.
Imotekh, Trazyn and the Deceiver were far more interesting than this. Just having them be straight up xenos-eqyptian conquerors was more interesting than this mess. I don't care about how the robots feel inside and stuff, or watch space marines act as vaccine to a 'lie down and die' space broadcast for humans.

The Mustache whirling villainy of the Silent King was only in the community articles, that fluff didn't really materialize in the actual codex. The codes are still destroyed, and he is not a tyrant at all in the codex fluff. I'm really not sure where the stuff from the community articles came from.

yup the codes are destroyed, he simply seems unrefusable, it's no doubt due to pure raw charisma because the codes where totally destroyed, yuuuup

The problem right now is the Silent King dominates his faction's background to a very lopsided extent. In the latest Codex it seems to show those that are still resisting his demands as the minority, with several of the other major dynasties basically cooperating with the Silent King even though he no longer has the codes to force obedience. AFAIK out of the major dynasties in the Codex, only the Sautekh is described as definitely being opposed to the Silent King.

The problem with one character dominating their faction is that it basically relegates every other character and subfaction to being sideshows. The same problem exists with Eldrad for example.

Maybe the other dynasties still think he was a good ruler and that he's trying to do what will help them?

As to the background, i get this vibe like the necrons were like the mutants and blackwolf from the movies "Wizards", Ralph Bakshi's sci fantasy epic he made to practice for his animated LotR movie.

They were forced to live in the irradiated nuclear wasteland of Skorch,where the radiation basically made "Our bodies crawl with hell."

If you haven't seen wizards, what are you waiting for?

Iracundus wrote:
The problem right now is the Silent King dominates his faction's background to a very lopsided extent. In the latest Codex it seems to show those that are still resisting his demands as the minority, with several of the other major dynasties basically cooperating with the Silent King even though he no longer has the codes to force obedience. AFAIK out of the major dynasties in the Codex, only the Sautekh is described as definitely being opposed to the Silent King.

The problem with one character dominating their faction is that it basically relegates every other character and subfaction to being sideshows. The same problem exists with Eldrad for example.

isn't sautekh the dynasty that most other necron SCs are part of anyway?

 Matt Swain wrote:
Maybe the other dynasties still think he was a good ruler and that he's trying to do what will help them?

As to the background, i get this vibe like the necrons were like the mutants and blackwolf from the movies "Wizards", Ralph Bakshi's sci fantasy epic he made to practice for his animated LotR movie.

They were forced to live in the irradiated nuclear wasteland of Skorch,where the radiation basically made "Our bodies crawl with hell."

If you haven't seen wizards, what are you waiting for?

Often, when the people live in a crisis time, tends to support the person who in that moment seems be the most trustworthy leader, even if it is clearly a bad decision, because be unite against the perils, even if under the leadership of a bad leader, is better than face the danger alone and maybe start a civil war for the political supremacy.

BrianDavion wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The problem right now is the Silent King dominates his faction's background to a very lopsided extent. In the latest Codex it seems to show those that are still resisting his demands as the minority, with several of the other major dynasties basically cooperating with the Silent King even though he no longer has the codes to force obedience. AFAIK out of the major dynasties in the Codex, only the Sautekh is described as definitely being opposed to the Silent King.

The problem with one character dominating their faction is that it basically relegates every other character and subfaction to being sideshows. The same problem exists with Eldrad for example.

isn't sautekh the dynasty that most other necron SCs are part of anyway?

No, Imotekh was simply the 'face' of the previous book. Sautekh were basically the ultramarines of the necrons for a while- the default color scheme and poster boys.

Good, hopefully they make them even less sympathetic.

Still gonna be lot of work to make them as unsympathetic as marines or admech, GW has their work cut out for them to make non-imperials look unsympathetic.

On Necrons, DNA, radiation and comparative lifespans. A mind vomit by Mad Doc Grotsnik.

First, the baleful star hasn’t really changed any. It’s just not focussed on.

But remember, high doses of radiation mess with your DNA. That’s not something going somewhere else fixes instantly, though it is possible over successive generations.

We do know the Necrontyr were somewhat prolific, given the sheer scale of their Empire, much of which was founded pre-bio transference. But how often and successfully the reproduced isn’t covered.

We’re also told they lived short lives. But when we’re comparing to Old Ones who were functionally immortal? Who knows what might be considered short by comparison? Decades? Centuries? Millennia?

What we are told is that when the Old Ones’ wouldn’t share the secret to their longevity, they went to war.

Taking a real pasting lead them to deal with the C’Tan - who were also responsible for their home star’s hyper activity, given a C’Tan was devouring it.

We’re also discussing a species which, by any metric, won. They got everything they asked for. Immortality, and their foes seemingly entirely wiped out. It just cost them everything. Their souls, their bodies, their civilisation as it was.

We also benefit from knowledge they lack - that their souls were devoured by the C’Tan. That is likely an unassailable hurdle to reversing bio-transference. Because they’re long, long gone. Never to return.

If that’s not an epic tragedy, I don’t know what it.

But if I might throw a curveball....I’d wager the Cabal from the Heresy series (whom the Alpha Legion may or may not be still in cahoots with) wanted a repeat of, to defeat the Chaos Gods once and for all.

The soul-devouring thing, I don't get. When they were first introduced in 3rd Edi, the C'tan were explicitedly stated to exclusively feed on material essence - being completely non-psychic and all - and tossing the souls of their victims aside. There was a fluff bit where a Daemon was gloating about the free soul all-you-can-eat the denizens of the Warp were getting out of this.

I haven't gotten my hand on the new codex yet but as long as the fluff isn't retconned in regards to the organization according to dynasties and such, I am mostly content.