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Recently I was looking at Phobos Captains and their ability to target characters, but I think the odds of successfully sniping any character are pretty minimal. This got me thinking though: is there any sniper or sniper unit in any faction that mathematically will successfully bring down a T4/T5 4++/5++ character in one turn?

The closest I can think of is a big squad of Allarus Terminators with their sratagem(s) active.

In Black Templars you could get your primaris captain witchseeker bolts, adding d3 mortals to any damage. Works only against psykers though, so meh.

triple IOM assasin fishing for MW.

sniper drone in the tau army were viable for a time.

A Deathwatch Spectrus Kill Team with 5 Eliminators using Mortis Rounds while within range of the RR1’s to-hit and to-wound auras can plausibly pop a guy a turn, but the dice must be with you.

Vindicare Assassin is pretty good.

Meh. I have some converted ratlings I field sometimes... but I more field them because they are short.

Orks and Adepta Sororitas don't have snipers. Drukhari have just a weapon that could be added to an Haemonculus or a unit of Wracks that can bypass the Look Out Sir Rule but they don't have a unit of snipers or a character that is really good in that job.

I haven't played snipers in over 20 years of 40k. Not once. Among the 5 factions I've played since 3rd edition only Harlequins had a sniper and I've always considered it pretty meh, so I never played it, and Space Wolves with their scouts which I also never liked. Not interested in Primaris.

I still consider snipers a luxury, they can be completely avoided without regrets.

Vindicare is the best sniper in the game atm, and he can only reasonably one-shot 4 wound infantry at a reliable rate.

He will on occasion ramp up and kill 2 6 wound characters in one turn, but thats incredibly low odds.


What i really like him for is the scare factor. His threat range is huge, so opponents will have a harder time moving their guys around with him on the board.

He's also good at weakening other models that can be issues. He certainly wont kill guilliman or a deamon prince on his lonesome, but he can pop them for d3 mortal wounds at range every turn with turbo penetrator rounds which means he's a threat to them as well.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Vindicare is the best sniper in the game atm,
What i really like him for is the scare factor.

And he looks cool. Rule of cool above all.

First of: you are setting quite a bar for "mathematically viable" with that profile and the requirement to kill it in one round.

Nonetheless, even if it is not a classical sniper unit, Mordian Veterans with 3 Plasmaguns and their regimental order "Form firing squad" should do the trick, if within rapid fire range.
Against T4, 3+,4++,5+++ they do 3.5 damage. A bit more if you throw in the stratagem Volleyfire

GSC Jackal but not because of the sniping

GSC sanctus in bladed cog (move and shoot) with gift from beyond is good VS psyker. Jackrlan alpha with the same gun is good as well, but mostly because of her aura.

The nice thing about sanctus + csg deployment is you can kill psyker in the opponents movement phase even if they go first. But line of sight blocking terain in 9th makes it harder.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
First of: you are setting quite a bar for "mathematically viable" with that profile and the requirement to kill it in one round.

Nonetheless, even if it is not a classical sniper unit, Mordian Veterans with 3 Plasmaguns and their regimental order "Form firing squad" should do the trick, if within rapid fire range.
Against T4, 3+,4++,5+++ they do 3.5 damage. A bit more if you throw in the stratagem Volleyfire

But you need the valk to drop them and the officer giving the order. Or the chimera to try and do it with a disembark move (probably better than the valk on 9th ed small boards which really hamper DSing units). Still, it is a move with a lot of style to it. The problem is getting in rapid fire range really

@ addnid: of course you are right. Still they are much more useable than their weight in Ratlings, I think

Don’t tell my local opponents that snipers aren’t super reliable. They live in absolute fear of what my Eliminators could do to them.

As I implied in my first post:
if the bar to jump for being "mathematically viable" is killing a T4-5, 4++,5+++ model in one turn: almost no sniper is viable.

If the bar to jump is more in the line of "able to kill it's points back over 2-3 turns of shooting (which to me seems more sensible), I think some of them do, especially against the not top armies.




Lets assume a not atypical IG list with a Primaris Psyker (50 Points, T3, W4, 5+), two Company Commanders (each 35 Points, T3,W4, 5+, 5++) and a Priest (40 Points, T3, W4, 4++).

A 10 man squad of ratlings (100 Points) does 4/4/3.333 damage per turn to these three targets, so if they shoot the Psyker first and follow up with the Company Commanders, they should kill their points after the third shooting Phase - givven they ssurvive. Two phases if you only take 5 and only shoot the Psyker
A Vindicare (same 100 Points), should not have problems to kill either in one shot and is merely hampered by the cheapness of these targets to win back his points. But he has much better chances to survive this long
5 Skitarii Rangers with two transuranic arquebuses (65 Points) do 2.444/1.7/1.33 damage/turn so against guard should need more in the range of 3 turns to shoot back their points.
I'm pretty sure other can figure out the math for the other snipers. And of course there are other armies with different defensive profiles on their characters. My point is really just, that the bar initially set for viability seems unneccessary high in my opinion.

I have played around with Illic and Rangers. Honestly you could have some good Potintial with a large unit of Rangers, being Alaitoc means you can use a stratagem on the 10 Rangers that makes only hits of 6 work against them, and in cover they shouln't be shot at much if not at all. Holding a Point if able to as well. He is also really cheap, the full thing is just under 200pts.

Illic always wounds and hits on a 2+, has -3ap for 3 damage. Combine that with 10 Rangers you should be able to 1 round most characters.

I was thinking about this for Assassinate secondary.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
As I implied in my first post:
if the bar to jump for being "mathematically viable" is killing a T4-5, 4++,5+++ model in one turn: almost no sniper is viable.

If the bar to jump is more in the line of "able to kill it's points back over 2-3 turns of shooting (which to me seems more sensible), I think some of them do, especially against the not top armies.




Lets assume a not atypical IG list with a Primaris Psyker (50 Points, T3, W4, 5+), two Company Commanders (each 35 Points, T3,W4, 5+, 5++) and a Priest (40 Points, T3, W4, 4++).

A 10 man squad of ratlings (100 Points) does 4/4/3.333 damage per turn to these three targets, so if they shoot the Psyker first and follow up with the Company Commanders, they should kill their points after the third shooting Phase - givven they ssurvive. Two phases if you only take 5 and only shoot the Psyker
A Vindicare (same 100 Points), should not have problems to kill either in one shot and is merely hampered by the cheapness of these targets to win back his points. But he has much better chances to survive this long
5 Skitarii Rangers with two transuranic arquebuses (65 Points) do 2.444/1.7/1.33 damage/turn so against guard should need more in the range of 3 turns to shoot back their points.
I'm pretty sure other can figure out the math for the other snipers. And of course there are other armies with different defensive profiles on their characters. My point is really just, that the bar initially set for viability seems unneccessary high in my opinion.

It was 4++/5++ not 5+++ (meaning a 4++ or a 5++). Thank you for the analysis too!

Really thank everyone so far. Learning a lot.

If you're looking to snipe out Primaris, Custodes or Death Guard beatstick characters, frankly that's not a reliable target profile. What are reliable target profiles are non-Primaris support characters (LTs, Apothecaries, Librarians, etc), and pretty much any T3 character target (there's a few exceptions like Archons or Culexi because of inherent special rules).

As stated, you shouldnt be expecting your Eliminators to clear the entire table of your opponents characters (though it's certainly a possibility and I've done it more than once). What you should be expecting to do with them is force your opponent to play cagily, and create opportunities for you to exploit.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
As I implied in my first post:
if the bar to jump for being "mathematically viable" is killing a T4-5, 4++,5+++ model in one turn: almost no sniper is viable.

If the bar to jump is more in the line of "able to kill it's points back over 2-3 turns of shooting (which to me seems more sensible), I think some of them do, especially against the not top armies.

Yes, "the not top armies" fear snipers, that is exactly it ! So I think there may be other cool stuff to try at the moment, unless you really struggle with some character. Also, auras have been kinda nerfed these past few months (and that is good thing IMO), so less use for snipers ATM. This may OC change with each codex release, or just on a GW whim.

The heavy terrain in 9th makes any sniper but eliminators kind of useless turn 1 too, which doesn't help at all

@ Audustum: mea culpa. I read a 5+++, sorry

Mortian surprise is a simple one if you have valkyries -- or strategic reserve points.
3 officers (two platoon and one company) can bring 3 command squds with 12 plasma, enough to load one in a valkyrie, and stick one in some transport, and stick one offboard.

A nice rangve of threat and firepower sprinkled diffusely across your army -- with real sniper potential. Potentially you can whack several enemy officers in one turn, even, and suddenly lower their confidence.

While more expensive than a pair of vindicaires it also has other utility, like killing piles of intercessers in the backfield to make elite armies struggle to attempt to maintain any semblance of board control. Look over a few marine lists -- and then imagine how they do when they are missing 3 units of MEQs from their backfield.

/That can be JUST as critical an "assassination" as killing an officer, and this setup lends itself to doing either.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Vindicare is the best sniper in the game atm, and he can only reasonably one-shot 4 wound infantry at a reliable rate.

He will on occasion ramp up and kill 2 6 wound characters in one turn, but thats incredibly low odds.


What i really like him for is the scare factor. His threat range is huge, so opponents will have a harder time moving their guys around with him on the board.

He's also good at weakening other models that can be issues. He certainly wont kill guilliman or a deamon prince on his lonesome, but he can pop them for d3 mortal wounds at range every turn with turbo penetrator rounds which means he's a threat to them as well.

Can you only take 1 per army ?

 Argive wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Vindicare is the best sniper in the game atm, and he can only reasonably one-shot 4 wound infantry at a reliable rate.

He will on occasion ramp up and kill 2 6 wound characters in one turn, but thats incredibly low odds.


What i really like him for is the scare factor. His threat range is huge, so opponents will have a harder time moving their guys around with him on the board.

He's also good at weakening other models that can be issues. He certainly wont kill guilliman or a deamon prince on his lonesome, but he can pop them for d3 mortal wounds at range every turn with turbo penetrator rounds which means he's a threat to them as well.

Can you only take 1 per army ?

1 per detachment.

WHat do they slot in as ?

Coz running a patrol + battalion is not abad way to set up an army and still have sort of okayish CP.

But yeah I think vindicare with its headhsot rule (the MW one) is by far the best sniper unit.

Deathmarks are outstanding. Str 5 ap-2 with mortals on 6's to wound and they hit on 2's. Between them and Ctans. Crons probably have the best anti character build which is also doubly good against elite infantry with high inuve saves as well. Yeah. It is Viable.

Rivener wrote:
A Deathwatch Spectrus Kill Team with 5 Eliminators using Mortis Rounds while within range of the RR1’s to-hit and to-wound auras can plausibly pop a guy a turn, but the dice must be with you.

Running the numbers...

5 shots
175/36 hits, which adds 1,225/1,296 Mortal Wounds
1,225/324 wounds against T3 and T4, 1,225/432 against T5
2,450/972 or 1,225/486 unsaved against T3/4; 2,450/1,296 or 1,225/648 against T5
1,225/243 damage against T3/4, 1,225/324 against T5

So that's roughly 6 damage to a T3/4 target, a little under 5 to a T5 target. And considering Deathwatch have great access to RR1s to-hit and to-wound, seems viable to me. This assumes a 3+/5++, by the way-adjust damage by 3/4ths (not counting the mortal) for a 4++.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Deathmarks are outstanding. Str 5 ap-2 with mortals on 6's to wound and they hit on 2's. Between them and Ctans. Crons probably have the best anti character build which is also doubly good against elite infantry with high inuve saves as well. Yeah. It is Viable.

I mean, compared to the Eliminators at 30 PPM (assuming you need/want the other 5 Spectrus dudes already, otherwise, if they're considered deadweight, the much less shiny 54 PPM)...

Oh wow, Deathmarks are only 18 PPM? Neat. So they are, per shot...

1 shot
5/6 hits, for 5/36 Mortal Wounds
10/18 or 5/9 against T3/4, 5/12 against T5
20/54 or 10/27 against T3/4, 10/36 or 5/18 against T5

About half a point of damage per shot to T3/4, about 2/5ths against T5.

That's a little less than half as effective as the Eliminators. So I'd rate Eliminators higher on raw firepower, at the very least.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I mean, compared to the Eliminators at 30 PPM (assuming you need/want the other 5 Spectrus dudes already, otherwise, if they're considered deadweight, the much less shiny 54 PPM)...

While the mandatory 5 infiltrators in a Spectrus team don't contribute direct anti-character firepower, their presence is most definitely not a waste.

Sterling191 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I mean, compared to the Eliminators at 30 PPM (assuming you need/want the other 5 Spectrus dudes already, otherwise, if they're considered deadweight, the much less shiny 54 PPM)...

While the mandatory 5 infiltrators in a Spectrus team don't contribute direct anti-character firepower, their presence is most definitely not a waste.

Yeah-they've got the OmniScramblers, right? The whole "No setting up within 12 inches" thing?

That's good. That's a good rule.