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Info on the title. ^

Malar - god of contrarianism and anarchic tendencies toward (self) destruction.

We may have endless plagues, wars, scheming, and excess, but there is no stopping the stupid.

Clearly Nurgle is currently on top.

The lazy answer is all of them, because the Chaos Gods were deliberately written that way (well, they were written for the late 1980s, but society hasn't changed all that much since then).

Khorne? Plenty of people hating other people for reasons both justified and not, and turning to violence as a solution or just an outlet.

Tzeentch? Ambition without conscience. A constant dissatisfaction with things as they are and a desire to change them no matter the cost. Plenty of that about too.

Nurgle? Fear that the Golden Age is ending, despair that the world is condemned to slide inexorably into ruin. Knowing you will be the first generation to be less well off than your parents, and that your own children will be poorer still.

Slaanesh? Turning your back on all the above problems and sinking into mindless hedonism while the world burns down around you.

The Age of Chaos is now.

Apathy I think is the biggest issue right now. Don’t think anyone has bothered giving that gif a name.

 Duskweaver wrote:
The lazy answer is all of them, because the Chaos Gods were deliberately written that way (well, they were written for the late 1980s, but society hasn't changed all that much since then).

Khorne? Plenty of people hating other people for reasons both justified and not, and turning to violence as a solution or just an outlet.

Tzeentch? Ambition without conscience. A constant dissatisfaction with things as they are and a desire to change them no matter the cost. Plenty of that about too.

Nurgle? Fear that the Golden Age is ending, despair that the world is condemned to slide inexorably into ruin. Knowing you will be the first generation to be less well off than your parents, and that your own children will be poorer still.

Slaanesh? Turning your back on all the above problems and sinking into mindless hedonism while the world burns down around you.

The Age of Chaos is now.

I think this is right, but I'd go a bit further. There isn't a period in human history where this doesn't apply. The slide toward ruin is a constant fear in history. hedonism, violence, ambition? All there.
Heck, people dug up quotes from Athens during the plague (that killed Pericles) complaining about the 'common people' not being sensible about practical measures to avoid spreading the disease.

The big four chaos gods are the Big Four because they're using the most basic human flaws. Some tropes and clichés exist for a reason.

Given how older generations hold the power and the wealth? Probably Tzeentch. Especially when you add in oddities like Influencers selling fake, Instalives.

Slaanesh.
Not just in the sexual desires way.
But society is very set up in a want/need way, the list for things. Power, possessions so on and so on.

Slaanesh would easily be the most powerful Chaos god in current 21 century

In other eras Khorne would be the most powerful

It really depends on where you are in the world/what you're doing. I think a thing to remember with chaos is that what generates what power in the warp is very circumstantial; so on the one hand because of our high levels of comfort compared to that historically, it's easy to say slaanesh. However, that's not really matters in terms of warp power, what matters is people's perceptions and feelings at the time. So while there may be more people engaging in what is considered excess and self serving, it's not really what people on the whole are experiencing right now, so I'd argue slaanesh would still be on the fringes now.

Khorne and Nurgle both come in waves. Remembering what's important isn't the material nature of our circumstances but our reaction, you'd have to say Nurgle is doing very well right now, while Khorne not so much. I think Khorne has generally been doing pretty poorly over the last 80 years, as despite localised conflicts, the general global situation is far less violent than it used to be, the vast majority of people not living in states of warfare/bloodshed as they used to. This is actually kinda the same as Nurgle tbf, as while he'd be doing well right now, this is very much a less common occurrence.

So basically I think it'd have to be tzeentch. This is as, while I love it and it's my favourite of the gods by far, it hasn't been written too well. Political change and social upheaval are pretty much inevitable everywhere all the time, 'change' is such a broad area so it's pretty much never gonna go hungry. On top of this the last 5-6 years have been huge for social upheaval compared with the few decades proceeding it, so I'd say it's the strongest. Tzeentch doesn't really work in quite the same way as the others either though, so I'm not sure if it's that we're vulnerable to it's 'vices'. Tzeentch, much like Khorne, doesn't care from whence the change flows, it works more in ploys and schemes rather than subjects.

Too early to say which of the Chaos gods will own the 2020's, but I'd say for 2010's, Slaanesh & Tzeentch no doubt.

People chasing new trends and things to buy to fill their life in an endless frenzy.. ever rising individualism and self-centeredness, and desire to be constantly reinventing everything, while demonizing the past and the past generations (OK BMR etc)

Humans are humans and the vices we have today are not that different to the vices of the past. Scale of some varies and waxes/wanes through the generations and regions.

Eg its harder to be a glutton when you've very limited access to food.

Plus its important to realise that chaos isn't set in stone. The Warcry Warbands in AoS flesh this out in that each one is quite unique and different, but any one could follow any one of the four gods. There are certainly some with lean closer to one god over the others visually speaking, but ultimately they can mostly all interchange.


Tzeentch might tempt a glutton with the knowledge of how to make the most exquisite dishes; Khorne would tempt them to war to fight for their food; Nurgle to father generations of maggots and flies from their bloated form; Slaanesh for the purity of excess in itself.

Capitalism is Slaanesh given shape, so yeah.

I would say Slaanesh if GW wasn't eternally committed to portraying 'excess' as 'a person whose body has weird parts, so I guess the answer is Tzeentch.

The problem is that the issues of today can't really be described as "Tzeentchian scheming" as much as "Willfully constructing an alternative reality that conforms to your pre-existing beliefs in the face of all available evidence that you're full of crap."

There's no chaos god of "utter mass delusion". pearl-clutching that the downfall of society is going to be caused by the sinister creeping influence of... overenthusiastic sadomasochism is definitely one of the saddest and funniest ideas enshrined in the GW canon. It's just a fact of every universe they've created - first its a 40 year old mom reading Fifty Shades too salaciously, and before you know it everyone's appending spikes to their cone hats and causing peoples brains to explode.

.....

........Why DOES the influence of chaos seem to so universally cause impractical spiky hats in GW's various settings?

Right now, Tzeentch. The status quo of increasing wealth disparity has always led to increasing resentment and desire to overthrow the established order, which remains as true today as it always has. The current context of the world gives Tzeentch an edge that he wouldn't have had 40 years ago. And I speak from a global perspective, not just the first world countries. Obviously specifics would escalate into politics so I'll leave it at that.

Slaanesh always has a strong hold, especially with people seeking escape from reality, but broadly so many individuals lack the resources and energy to truly indulge in excess on a broad scale.

Khorne is a strong second given the amount of anger going around, but for the most part this hasn't erupted into violence--people around the world are protesting peacefully far more than resorting to outright riots.

Nurgle obviously has the pandemic, but that is changing. What Nurgle really has is people giving up, simply going 'the world is shotty and will always be gakky' and laughing at the pain. But these people are outweighed by the desire for change.

- Capitalism is literally driven by Slaanesh. The entire "demand" side of the spectrum is entirely an exercise in pursuing wants outside of a very few basic needs (like very few. If survival were the only goal, we wouldn't need nearly as much).

- Convenience is king - most modern innovations take an old idea and make it more convenient (e.g. self-driving cars, robovacuums, etc).

- Opulence and indulgence have continually escalated through the centuries, and the wealth imbalance is absolutely ridiculous yet the poorer classes still seek gratification rather than redistribution, and where redistribution is the goal it is couched in terms of a reduction in suffering and an increase in living quality.

- Sexual freedom, the recognition of sexuality as a spectrum rather than binary, the liberation of sexuality from a closed-door lights-off morality, and the use of sexuality to sell even the most basic thing also feed Slaanesh.

- There are more genres of music and art than ever before, enhanced by the digital revolution that also creates unprecedented access to depraved and hedonistic pleasures, whether it's pornography, addiction to video-games, or anything else.

- Slaanesh is inherently progressive - in this way, She is somewhat like Tzeench, in that it is a constant march forwards towards ever greater levels of hedonism, indulgence, and cultural excess. But you can't escape Her by going backwards; once the door is open, it can only be slammed shut by employing excesses different in content but not degree.

- We live in a time where the quality of life is such that (certainly at least in the West) the majority of people are no longer trying to struggle to survive, and that means that every desire, every whim, every indulgence is in pursuit of happiness.

- Heck, even the concept of freedom is Slaaneshi, because it means you are free to do as you wish without inhibition or constraint. The freer a society is, the more Slaaneshi it becomes.

Life is Nurgle, but liberty and the pursuit of happiness are both Slaaneshi.

I rally don't think that "having food on the table and not starving" and "not being punished for boning who you want to bone" are "excess", really. And I seriously doubt that someone working two part-time jobs to pay rent and have any food count as "not struggling to survive", and that's been the reality for a lot of americans even before the current situation.

There's plenty of excess to go around, but it's in the same places it's always been, among the rich.

Slaanesh by a large margin. Consumerism and self-indulgence have become the norm in modern society.

Cronch wrote:
I rally don't think that "having food on the table and not starving" and "not being punished for boning who you want to bone" are "excess", really. And I seriously doubt that someone working two part-time jobs to pay rent and have any food count as "not struggling to survive", and that's been the reality for a lot of americans even before the current situation.

There's plenty of excess to go around, but it's in the same places it's always been, among the rich.

But the people working two part-time jobs to pay rent are having to do that precisely because of how overindulgent and excessive society has become, that's the point. The situation they find themselves in isn't a consequence of Change, Despair, or Bloodshed, but is a direct result of overindulgence - in other words, Excess.

Not because they as individuals are overindulgent or excessive, but because society as a whole has become that way.

Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

Cronch wrote:
Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

Yeah, let's not act like Western society is *all* there is, or that people suddenly being much more socially mobile and somewhat more able to live their own lives is "excess".

Though I do agree that capitalism is very much an embodiment of excess (is that political? I don't feel it should be) - excessive capital, but not excessive living?

Cronch wrote:Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

90%? Methinks you dramatically overestimate how many people are struggling. The companies that build automatic vacuum cleaners aren't struggling (which they would be if they only sold to 10% of society), and that's exactly the type of thing that a Slaaneshi follower would be all about. Something to do the cleaning so you can do other activities (i.e. pursue pleasure).

Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

Yeah, let's not act like Western society is *all* there is, or that people suddenly being much more socially mobile and somewhat more able to live their own lives is "excess".

Methinks you are excessively (heh) focused on excess and not the rest of Slaanesh's sphere like pleasure, indulgence, ambition, lust, and pride.

"Able to live your own life" means you are able to pursue happiness, i.e. pursue your pleasure, your ambition, your indulgence, your lust, your pride, whatever. Social mobility facilitates ambition, and capitalism (especially late-stage capitalism) has built a society entirely structured around chasing fleeting pleasures and indulging wants. You may not be able to based on your current social status (e.g. the people who have to work two part-time jobs to make ends meet), but the society still encourages you to, and in fact wouldn't function if you didn't try to.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

Yeah, let's not act like Western society is *all* there is, or that people suddenly being much more socially mobile and somewhat more able to live their own lives is "excess".

Methinks you are excessively (heh) focused on excess and not the rest of Slaanesh's sphere like pleasure, indulgence, ambition, lust, and pride.

Living a comfortable life isn't excessive. It's more of an indictment that not everyone *can*.

That's not excessive at all.

"Able to live your own life" means you are able to pursue happiness, i.e. pursue your pleasure, your ambition, your indulgence, your lust, your pride, whatever. Social mobility facilitates ambition, and capitalism (especially late-stage capitalism) has built a society entirely structured around chasing fleeting pleasures and indulging wants. You may not be able to based on your current social status (e.g. the people who have to work two part-time jobs to make ends meet), but the society still encourages you to, and in fact wouldn't function if you didn't try to.

Yeah, I still disagree. Pursuit of happiness isn't excess. That should be *basic*. Excessive would be pursuit of happiness *at the direct expense of others* (aka, corporate or late-stage capitalism).

I'm not disagreeing that capitalism isn't excessive, I literally just put that it was - but the *people* under it aren't being excessive in chasing what should be the basic human experience.

Having to work two jobs isn't excessive, it's survival *as a result* of the excess of others. But I'm not comfortable saying that society itself is excessive.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Cronch wrote:Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

90%? Methinks you dramatically overestimate how many people are struggling. The companies that build automatic vacuum cleaners aren't struggling (which they would be if they only sold to 10% of society), and that's exactly the type of thing that a Slaaneshi follower would be all about. Something to do the cleaning so you can do other activities (i.e. pursue pleasure).

Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Again, not society. 90% of this society is not "excessive" in any much way, except maybe how excessively they're being squeezed. And of course again, basic freedoms are not excess.

Yeah, let's not act like Western society is *all* there is, or that people suddenly being much more socially mobile and somewhat more able to live their own lives is "excess".

Methinks you are excessively (heh) focused on excess and not the rest of Slaanesh's sphere like pleasure, indulgence, ambition, lust, and pride.

"Able to live your own life" means you are able to pursue happiness, i.e. pursue your pleasure, your ambition, your indulgence, your lust, your pride, whatever. Social mobility facilitates ambition, and capitalism (especially late-stage capitalism) has built a society entirely structured around chasing fleeting pleasures and indulging wants. You may not be able to based on your current social status (e.g. the people who have to work two part-time jobs to make ends meet), but the society still encourages you to, and in fact wouldn't function if you didn't try to.

So are the farmers who use machinery instead of threshing grain by hand also part of the Dark Prince's plan? Ya know, because obviously they're using the time saved to engage in hedonistic orgies, and not just spending it doing other productive tasks.

That depends I suppose.

Generally, I consider convenience to be in the Dark Princes' sphere, since it increases the amount of leisure time available. (Note that leisure time doing a productive activity is within Slaanesh's sphere. A cook trying to be the best cook in the world is an easy take for Slaanesh through seeking perfection, even though 'making food' isn't fundamentally hedonistic). Similarly, making the best music or the best art. Slaanesh is far more than hedonistic orgies, and productive tasks can absolutely be Slaaneshi in form.

Clearly, that's different than how other people view it.

I think there is a lot of forgetting here that most of the world is not the first world.

I think there's a faulty assumption that anything beyond digging out roots with our bare hands like the earliest hominids is "excessive" and that resting your ass on a chair for 5 minutes is excessive pleasure that would give rise to interest in orgies and eating babies for lunch if left unchecked.

Ironically, for posts that ostensibly are anti-capitalist, it echoes the capitalists' argument that if you let the working classes have nice things, they will turn slothful and lazy and will no longer work and that will lead to decay of society.

Unit1126PLL wrote:That depends I suppose.

Generally, I consider convenience to be in the Dark Princes' sphere, since it increases the amount of leisure time available. (Note that leisure time doing a productive activity is within Slaanesh's sphere. A cook trying to be the best cook in the world is an easy take for Slaanesh through seeking perfection, even though 'making food' isn't fundamentally hedonistic). Similarly, making the best music or the best art. Slaanesh is far more than hedonistic orgies, and productive tasks can absolutely be Slaaneshi in form.

Clearly, that's different than how other people view it.

So, is all ranged weaponry in Slaanesh's sphere? Magic? Clothing? Using anything other than one's bare hands to do anything? Because those are all more convenient than going around naked trying to do things without tools.

Because a gun is definitely more "convenient" than a sword, even if you're not trying to be the best marksman - you're just trying to kill the enemy quicker from afar. But I guess that swordsman's also part of Slaanesh's domain because using a sword to kill is much easier than tearing them apart with your bare hands, even if you're not trying to be the best swordsman. So, nah. Convenience isn't inherently excessive by any stretch of the imagination. Excess would be trying to *only* have leisure time, but leisure time itself isn't excessive by any stretch, in the same way that the firing of neurons and synapses in the brain isn't inherently "thinking" that benefits Tzeentch.

NinthMusketeer wrote:I think there is a lot of forgetting here that most of the world is not the first world.

Quite.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
I think there's a faulty assumption that anything beyond digging out roots with our bare hands like the earliest hominids is "excessive" and that resting your ass on a chair for 5 minutes is excessive pleasure that would give rise to interest in orgies and eating babies for lunch if left unchecked.

Ironically, for posts that ostensibly are anti-capitalist, it echoes the capitalists' argument that if you let the working classes have nice things, they will turn slothful and lazy and will no longer work and that will lead to decay of society.

Yeah, there's definitely a bit of that undertone in there.

Automation that lets people have leisure time isn't excessive at all, and it's an injustice that leisure time is seen as a luxury and not a right.

The average hunter gatherer society had more leisure time than full-time worker of the modern day so if anything we've downgraded in that department.

Without endorsing such heresy I get why someone would worship Khorne, Tzeentch or Slaneesh. The path to damnation starts with a single step of reckless violence, forbidden knowledge or forbidden fruit, but what is the first step to worshipping Nurgle? What's the payoff? The Warhammer Chaos gods seem to be a confused and contradictory blend of Deadly Sins and Four Horsemen. At least the spikey bits and funny headgear are consistent.