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Which of these armies do you think is the more fun to collect and paint, or play against?

I feel that I never see harlequin players in my local area, so there is a shroud of mystery for them as a potential player?

But I'd just like to know your opinions to which you guys find the more interesting?

Which of these armies do you think is the more fun to collect and paint, or play against?

collect probably depends if you want to actualy play the army or not. If you want to play the harlis are much better of an army to buy.

Paint is again a subjective thing. I don't like multi coloured stuff,and like stuff when it is mono coloured. So for me it is GK, but I can imagine that if someone wants to go wild, picking up harlis gives more options. Play against, is definitly GK. Harlis are not a fun army to play against for majority of armies.

In terms of play, collect and paint they aren't that far apart, though the lore for harlequins is a bit more interesting than what GK offers. Even if you ignore the Ward-era, the most interesting part about them is how they were founded. None of the stuff that came afterwards is particularly great or original.

GK also have never been particularly fun to play against, from invincible paladins and psyflemen, to piles of psy dice to super-fragile piles of expensive wargear, facing them rarely, if ever amounted to an interesting game. The I-WIN button against chaos doesn't help their case either.

So yeah, big win for murder clowns.

Harlies every time.

Deeply dislike the Grey Knight models. (Prejudiced? ME?)

Wish I had the painting skills to do the harlies justice

I'd go for harlequins over grey knights, as you'll be painting more than a gunmetal grey for the entire army.

Harlies are also top tier, if that helps your decision, but they do have a learning curve and aren't as point and click as other factions in the game.

As for collecting, it largely depends on whether you see yourself adding an allied element to your army in the future. GK have access to the entire list of imperial factions while harlies have DE and Craftworlds.

Harlies for me too.

Nice infantry, cool bikes and vehicles, interesting playstyle. Only problem is picking a colour scheme that won't damage your mental health while painting.

Depends on the definition of interesting.

For me, I'd pick Grey Knights over Harlequins because they're easier to paint, in theory. Plus they currently have a couple more bespoke models than the Harlequins 7 currently available (although not many more than that)!!

My problem with both though is that Grey Knights and Harlequins have always seemed to be one of those periphery armies who aren't very well fleshed out in the rules and just seem to be there for GW to make a bit more money. They seem great in the fluff, but fall flat when it comes to the game and range of miniatures.

Personally I've looked at starting a small (500-1000pts) Grey Knights army, but I can't find an Inquisitor in Terminator Armour that I like (or make a conversion that doesn't just look like a Grey Knight Terminator!). Have the same problem with my Dark Angels army and trying to have a Deathwing Master in Terminator Armour though (conversions always just look like a Deathwing Knight), so that issue isn't exclusive to Grey Knights.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Which of these armies do you think is the more fun to collect and paint, or play against?

Collecting?: A slight edge to the GK as they can field one of my favorite units in the game - dreadnaughts. And I really like their termie armor.

Painting? With fun in mind?: Definitely GK. Though I'm 100% sure I could do it, I have never in my life wanted to paint a Harlequin in all those tiny stipes & checks & etc - I would not find that "fun". Plus it'd take me Goddamn forever. So the Not-Fun would continue on & on & on....

Play against?: Either is fine.

Play with?: GK are more challenging. The Harlies? The few games I've seen (& one I've played against them) appeared to focus on keeping about 3 characters alive to do most of the work. I dislike playing Hero-Hammer.

Worth noting that the current Harlequin plastic kit is quite possibly the single best kit in terms of options and poseability that I have personally ever gotten the pleasure to build.

As a Grey Knights player, Im obviously partial to my army. That said, I like the GK aesthetic with lots of silver and gold; and of course GK can have land raiders [if only they could have other non-dreadnought tanks too], so from a modeling and lore perspective I think GK are way better than space clowns.

That said, you will certainly have more fun playing harlequins. Grey Knights are not particularly tactically deep, nor are they particularly strong.

I’m actually curious about Harlequins myself.

Can you make an army out of whatever you want? I.e. are all their units pretty good, and as long as you make it able to fight different threats, it works? Or is it one of those armies that requires specific units to function while everything else sucks?

And also, can they work in smaller points games like 500-1000?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m actually curious about Harlequins myself.

Can you make an army out of whatever you want? I.e. are all their units pretty good, and as long as you make it able to fight different threats, it works? Or is it one of those armies that requires specific units to function while everything else sucks?

And also, can they work in smaller points games like 500-1000?

Well their "evetything" consists of 4(?) Characters, a gun boat. A transport, & a single squad type. If I missed something someone will correct me. And I think they can soup in some cwe/de.

They can absolutely work at 1k & below.

Well, I'd wait for the new codices before making a decision.
I'll play only armies with 9th ed codices atm (Necrons here).

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m actually curious about Harlequins myself.

Can you make an army out of whatever you want? I.e. are all their units pretty good, and as long as you make it able to fight different threats, it works? Or is it one of those armies that requires specific units to function while everything else sucks?

And also, can they work in smaller points games like 500-1000?

Voidweavers have never been good, but everything else has solid uses.

Currently fusion pistols are the bees knees, but they're so strong right now that I've recentl played "orklequins" - literally a huge mob of on foot clowns with all the defensive auras - and they stomped casual games.

Harlequins because:

Their models are newer and better looking
They are not "yet another marine army"
Their playstyle is totally unique
The options for painting can range from basic to extraordinary depending on what you want to do

Grey Knights however have some advantages:

They are marines - GW can easily expand their army just by giving them access to some codex units

They are marines - They are regularly in the minds of the model makers unlike Xenos armies. Harlequins have had their update - if you use Craftworlds as an example, how long do you expect to wait for another update / addition to the range.

They are marines - They may well be the neglected child of the family, but last time they got a proper update they were bloody good

They are marines - 2 wounds incoming, some fancy stratagems, time for some Primaris love?

They are magic marines - GW seem to be using some AOS design elements and what better combination could you ask for than an army of magic space marines to make models of.


Ultimately however, Harlequins are currently the better army but that said, that might just be pure fluke based on how 9th is played synergising well. They have been top of the table for a while - expect the nerf bat to hit them and remember - they aren't marines. Where Xenos is concerned, a nerf bat isn't just for Christmas, sometimes it's for a decade.

Sumilidon wrote:


They are marines - They are regularly in the minds of the model makers unlike Xenos armies. Harlequins have had their update - if you use Craftworlds as an example, how long do you expect to wait for another update / addition to the range.
.

Regularly? I hope it ain't so, because it would mean they hate GK as a concept . Also as updates go. CWE and Harlis got more updates then GK. GK got 1 normal model in box with Gulliman and Cawl, and the limited edition librarian. And before that you go entire editions without any updates. In the mean time harlis got a whole new model line, CWE got new bikes and the Wright Knight. Last big GK model updated happened when I wasn't even going to school in 5th ed.

Karol wrote:

Sumilidon wrote:


They are marines - They are regularly in the minds of the model makers unlike Xenos armies. Harlequins have had their update - if you use Craftworlds as an example, how long do you expect to wait for another update / addition to the range.
.

Regularly? I hope it ain't so, because it would mean they hate GK as a concept . Also as updates go. CWE and Harlis got more updates then GK. GK got 1 normal model in box with Gulliman and Cawl, and the limited edition librarian. And before that you go entire editions without any updates. In the mean time harlis got a whole new model line, CWE got new bikes and the Wright Knight. Last big GK model updated happened when I wasn't even going to school in 5th ed.

Harlequins got their initial launch in Rogue Trader, one kit and 2 characters in fifth edition, and then their relaunch (3 kits and 3 characters) in 7th. that's the sum total of all Harlequin kits that have ever existed in the past 39 years.

I really don't know why you keep insisting on considering CWE and Harlequins as one faction despite being entirely different codexes, but then don't count things like the flyers that got added to GK as GK releases...

the_scotsman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m actually curious about Harlequins myself.

Can you make an army out of whatever you want? I.e. are all their units pretty good, and as long as you make it able to fight different threats, it works? Or is it one of those armies that requires specific units to function while everything else sucks?

And also, can they work in smaller points games like 500-1000?

Voidweavers have never been good, but everything else has solid uses.
.

Is that what the little vyper-esque gunboat is called?
In the one game I recently played vs harlies one shot up a few of my necrons & zipped off to claim an objective.

I blew it up but not before it'd scored some vp (+ dropping a few of my 'cross who failed to reanimate).
About the same overall effect/threat as playing vs a viper.
So I suppose for its pts it did its expected job.

Well the question here is...do you want to play one of the strongest armies in the game with the most terrible fluff?

Or one of the weakest with one of the best fluffs?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well the question here is...do you want to play one of the strongest armies in the game with the most terrible fluff?

Or one of the weakest with one of the best fluffs?

Lol.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well the question here is...do you want to play one of the strongest armies in the game with the most terrible fluff?

Or one of the weakest with one of the best fluffs?

The edgelord fluff lover has been spotted.

the_scotsman 796228 11058538 wrote:

Harlequins got their initial launch in Rogue Trader, one kit and 2 characters in fifth edition, and then their relaunch (3 kits and 3 characters) in 7th. that's the sum total of all Harlequin kits that have ever existed in the past 39 years.

I really don't know why you keep insisting on considering CWE and Harlequins as one faction despite being entirely different codexes, but then don't count things like the flyers that got added to GK as GK releases...

I don't know maybe, because xeno player claim there is one marine faction. And 6 new models in 7th ed seems to be 5 more models boxs then GK got in 7th.

And which flyers were added to the GK in 8th ed? I mean GW left us the thunder hawk, but that is more or less it. We have the storm raven, but it was nerfed because Gulliman lists, even when we didn't have our re-roll dude in 8th, and they didn't get much better in 9th ed.

The edgelord fluff lover has been spotted.

What is edge lord in GK fluff? They are edge lords comparing to which faction in the universe. If anything they are anti edge lord, brain scrubed and then given a new unified personality, doing the stuff that has to be done, by any means they have access too. And because they were given the best gear and more knowladge then any other marine chapter, their pool of option , in the lore, is bigger.

What is edge lord in GK fluff?

Pretty much... all of it.

'The even more super special super soldiers that can do no wrong while doing wrong and suffering stoically to gain power beyond comprehension that they can't be corrupted by to fight the eternal war against the unending foe that can never be defeated yet they stand strong, defiant, incorruptible and undefeatable until the end of everything.'

Oh also that whole thing about wandering into the warp to carve names on the hearts of greater daemons and that's just a thing people do sometimes. Because wow, just... so awesome. A couple hundred white wolf fanfic writers paused in terror and said 'Whoa, don't you, like, think that's a bit much?'

ccs wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m actually curious about Harlequins myself.

Can you make an army out of whatever you want? I.e. are all their units pretty good, and as long as you make it able to fight different threats, it works? Or is it one of those armies that requires specific units to function while everything else sucks?

And also, can they work in smaller points games like 500-1000?

Voidweavers have never been good, but everything else has solid uses.
.

Is that what the little vyper-esque gunboat is called?
In the one game I recently played vs harlies one shot up a few of my necrons & zipped off to claim an objective.

I blew it up but not before it'd scored some vp (+ dropping a few of my 'cross who failed to reanimate).
About the same overall effect/threat as playing vs a viper.
So I suppose for its pts it did its expected job.

Basically anything it does you've always been able to do much better with a skyweaver (same haywire cannon, much cheaper) or with a starweaver (exchanges the cannon for the abiliyt to transport 6 clowns). it's only unique gun has always been just kinda bad. Baby's first Fire Prism gun, doesn't really do anything.

Used to be, you had to take 1 in pretty much any harlequin formation in 7th, so I do own one.

...on the bright side, the crewmember that comes with for use in the voidweaver makes an extremely handy custom built Shadowseer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 796228 11058538 wrote:

Harlequins got their initial launch in Rogue Trader, one kit and 2 characters in fifth edition, and then their relaunch (3 kits and 3 characters) in 7th. that's the sum total of all Harlequin kits that have ever existed in the past 39 years.

I really don't know why you keep insisting on considering CWE and Harlequins as one faction despite being entirely different codexes, but then don't count things like the flyers that got added to GK as GK releases...

I don't know maybe, because xeno player claim there is one marine faction.

They literally share zero units between them. They are as similar as space marines and imperial guard, lol. 1/2 of their codex is not made up of shared units like, let's say, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Dreadnoughts, Stormravens, Land Raiders...

TBF, what in 40K isn’t edge lord? The setting is built on edge lord and then drenched in more edge lord. That’s why it’s so hilariously brutal and awesome. It does edge lord so hard it goes full circle and becomes awesome.

What is edge lord in GK fluff? They are edge lords comparing to which faction in the universe. If anything they are anti edge lord, brain scrubed and then given a new unified personality, doing the stuff that has to be done, by any means they have access too. And because they were given the best gear and more knowladge then any other marine chapter, their pool of option , in the lore, is bigger.

I don't think you quite understand what calling a thing edge lord means.

TBF, what in 40K isn’t edge lord? The setting is built on edge lord and then drenched in more edge lord. That’s why it’s so hilariously brutal and awesome. It does edge lord so hard it goes full circle and becomes awesome.

It was more of a remark towards the demeaning of Harlequin lore; when many find Grey Knight lore always derivative, eye-rolling mary sue, or 12 yo edglord appeal.

Everyone's entitled to there opinion; I'm going to defend my bois the quins as being conceptually sweet as f; and frankly not much in 40k in sweet past the conceptual level anyway.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well the question here is...do you want to play one of the strongest armies in the game with the most terrible fluff?

Or one of the weakest with one of the best fluffs?

I suppose this is how someone might answer the question short term, but (over the course of multiple editions) both of these factions have had wild swings in power. Maybe moreso than other factions.

How likely is it that GK or Harlies will be useful as time goes on?

Harlequins are pretty tough right now, I don't expect them to get any major buffs in their own Codex. GKs have a lot of room for improvement, they might even be top tier were it not for the changes to Brotherhood of Psykers.

I'd give GK the edge based on what GW might do with them. GK will get a 9th edition Codex and there are obvious ways to improve the faction without major rules changes. If they suddenly got access to the full Space Marines arsenal, as we saw with Deathwatch, that would be very hard for other armies.

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm saying they have the most room for improvement and GW did an excellent job with them in 8th.

I actually JUST had this dilemma myself, and I settled on Grey Knights.

This was more to do with me having more grey Knights lying around in boxes than Harlequins (yes, I have a problem, I'm aware).

I'm enjoying building my Grey Knight models, but there are a few things you may want to know right now

Grey Knights points values are all over the place. With the Minitorum update, they gave GKs a big points overhaul like all the other armies, but they don't make a ton of sense. For instance, in the Munitorum update there is a Brotherhood Champion HQ choice, and a brotherhood Champion Elite choice. There is no elite choice in the codex, and for some reason the points cost for both are different.

In the codex, there are two entries for each of the Psilencer, Psycannon, and Incinerator, one for the powered armored Grey Knights and one for Terminators. They changed the cost of all of those weapons for power armored Grey Knights, but left them more expensive for terminators for reasons I can't quite understand. I can only assume that they forgot they had listed them separately originally and couldn't be bothered to crack the codex when they updated the points cost.

Speaking of the incinerator, it's now one of the few (maybe the only, but I'm not sure) flame weapons that didn't get a range increase to 12" with the 9th edition update, which hurts because it's your only non-heavy special weapons choice, and GKs have no ability that would mitigate the penalty for infantry moving and firing heavy weapons. For the life of me, I can't fathom why they increased the range of all flamers in a specific errata but didn't change the incinerator.

They are also all stuck on 1W instead of 2W+ until the next codex, but I don't think that is restricted to just Grey Knights.

So yeah, Grey Knights are a good looking army, and you can still do some pretty cool things with their plastic models since they aren't all monopose, but there is some weird things that have to be fixed on a basic level before they can return to whatever functioning normally looks like for them.

the_scotsman wrote:

Harlequins got their initial launch in Rogue Trader, one kit and 2 characters in fifth edition, and then their relaunch (3 kits and 3 characters) in 7th. that's the sum total of all Harlequin kits that have ever existed in the past 39 years.

I really don't know why you keep insisting on considering CWE and Harlequins as one faction despite being entirely different codexes, but then don't count things like the flyers that got added to GK as GK releases...

Don't forget to add drukhari in his hate pile. And lets watch him complain about how the elfs can mix and match auras and psychic powers even tho they can't anymore. Hes an actual troll when it comes to anything eldar and god damn he always manages to bait me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

Is that what the little vyper-esque gunboat is called?
In the one game I recently played vs harlies one shot up a few of my necrons & zipped off to claim an objective.

I blew it up but not before it'd scored some vp (+ dropping a few of my 'cross who failed to reanimate).
About the same overall effect/threat as playing vs a viper.
So I suppose for its pts it did its expected job.

Starweaver is the transport version of the "vyper boat"
Voidweaver is the tank version of the "vyper boat"

Starweavers are excellent, voidweavers are "meh"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:


I don't know maybe, because xeno player claim there is one marine faction. And 6 new models in 7th ed seems to be 5 more models boxs then GK got in 7th.

for feths sake karol....

GREY KNIGHTS ARENT INCLUDED WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT MARINES.

And yes, Space marines are a singular faction. Theyre all present in the same codex. Unlike eldars/deldars/clowns.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


for feths sake karol....

GREY KNIGHTS ARENT INCLUDED WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT MARINES.

And yes, Space marines are a singular faction. Theyre all present in the same codex. Unlike eldars/deldars/clowns.

They are in the same codex only, because GW knows they can force a large population of players like different marine factions to buy multiple books. If they could they would split the DE book in to 3 separate books, preferably in a such a way that the units you need for 1 army would be in 3 different books(vide SW and their TWC rules), they would do it. There is aren't enough players for those xeno factions to make the printing of that many books valid.

And I didn't mention GK. It took me some time, like almost 2 years I think, but now I know that when people say marines they exclude GK from it. Doesn't change the fact that armies like SW or DA or BA have been factions far longer then some other armies exist as a playable faction.