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Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






How do?

Spinning off from another thread where I reckoned an Astartes could make short work of a Cyberdyne Systems T-800 Model 101.

By all means use that as a jumping off point, but please do allow me first to set the random parameters to help frame the discussion.

1. The Marine is a ‘basic’ Marine. That means Bolt Rifle, Power Armour and Combat Blade. Plus frag, krak and if they come with them, Bolt Pistol (don’t have the current Codex I’m afraid).

2. The Other is similarly equipped. For instance, a Predator would have the same gear as the one from Predator. Blades, targetter, plasma caster etc. The Cyberdyne Systems T-800 Model 101 would have its Phased Plasma Rifle In The 40 Watt Range, and so on and so forth.

3. Because reasons, this is a straight one-on-one fight.

4. Because it’s their job, the Astartes is the invader, meaning The Other will have the home field advantage, in that it’s in its element.

5. Your argument must be based in some form of canon. For instance, and to continue the theme, the Dark Horse Predator, Terminator and Alien comics would be allowed - but fan theory or fan fiction is not. That’s not to dunk of fan stuff, it’s just to prevent hand-wavium wins for either side.

6. If you disagree with someone’s input, come with input of your own!

Right.......

SciFi vs Astartes.


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The Marine is a ‘basic’ Marine. That means Bolt Rifle, Power Armour and Combat Blade.

Just for clarity, you mean bolter, yes? Because 'basic' marines don't get bolt rifles. Those are different, better, beasts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/21 21:44:40


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Bolters or Bolt Rifles.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Depending on which book you read space marine power armour provides optics and battle data superior to that which we have seen with predator

Also e have seen several instance of a human weight worse gear than an IG trooper kill a predator. Can we say the same for astartes
   
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Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

The xenomorph from Alien could presumably put up a bit of a fight, it's a tyranid for all intents and purposes after all. 1v1? I think it would struggle, unless it was extra sneaky like.

Predators, although fairly bad ass in the movie, against a space marine? Big wussy invisible weenies in comparison. Pretty difficult to rip someone's spine out if it's reinforced and covered in various special goo. Maybe the plasma caster could do some damage, but then one spray of bolter fire and it's good night xenos filth.

Maybe a hunter from Halo would be a good 1v1, unless of course the space marine happens to shoot it in it's comically weak back..

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
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Drone without a Controller




Les Etats Unis

Does anyone know how fast a bolter's bolts actually go? It's pretty easy to determine that the "average Marine versus average Jedi" fight would hinge entirely around whether a Jedi would be able to stop or reflect them. It's canon in SW (at least legends) that bullets are too fast for a Jedi to catch, but obviously, even discounting the use of a lightsaber, blaster shots are not.

That is, unless we're really stressing the whole "home field advantage" thing, since if the Jedi is able to get within melee range then the Marine is as good as toast.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
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Vancouver, BC

 Flipsiders wrote:
That is, unless we're really stressing the whole "home field advantage" thing, since if the Jedi is able to get within melee range then the Marine is as good as toast.

Unless Ceramite is anything like Beskar, or like...

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Lightsaber-resistant_materials

Plus how well Jedi do against hundreds of coin-sized frag grenades is anybody's guess.
   
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Les Etats Unis

 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
That is, unless we're really stressing the whole "home field advantage" thing, since if the Jedi is able to get within melee range then the Marine is as good as toast.

Unless Ceramite is anything like Beskar, or like...

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Lightsaber-resistant_materials

Plus how well Jedi do against hundreds of coin-sized frag grenades is anybody's guess.


Every "lightsaber-resistant material" is only lightsaber-resistant due to writer fiat. There's no common thread between them, at least not anymore, so the best thing to do is to just go off the assumption that nothing can stop a lightsaber unless whoever the mouse is employing today has ran out of ideas and needs to come up with a totally new and original way for the villains to be scary.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Vancouver, BC

 Flipsiders wrote:
Every "lightsaber-resistant material" is only lightsaber-resistant due to writer fiat. There's no common thread between them, at least not anymore, so the best thing to do is to just go off the assumption that nothing can stop a lightsaber unless whoever the mouse is employing today has ran out of ideas and needs to come up with a totally new and original way for the villains to be scary.

Everything that exists in any work of fiction is writer's fiat. You can't dismiss an argument by invoking that.
   
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Les Etats Unis

 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
Every "lightsaber-resistant material" is only lightsaber-resistant due to writer fiat. There's no common thread between them, at least not anymore, so the best thing to do is to just go off the assumption that nothing can stop a lightsaber unless whoever the mouse is employing today has ran out of ideas and needs to come up with a totally new and original way for the villains to be scary.

Everything that exists in any work of fiction is writer's fiat. You can't dismiss an argument by invoking that.


My issue isn't that they exist, it's that they're arbitrary. The only materials I could find on the wiki which actually had a reason for being lightsaber-resistant were Cortosis and the various force-imbued metals. Some of the ones that only resist lightsabers for a short amount of time are reasonable, but the rest of the materials (such as Beskar and Phrik) are entirely arbitrary, and unless a canon source tells us what they have in common which allows them to endure --not reflect-- lasers, I'm going to say they shouldn't be used as a basis for anything.

If we want to be generous, it's probably fair to say that Ceramite might be one of the materials that takes more effort for a lightsaber to get through, but that's hardly a measure of immunity either way.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Bolter shells are detonated prematurely against Dalek shields. Dalek guns pretty much punch thru marine armor.

Daleks then get royally fethed by marine psykers, imperial assassins, grey knights, sisters of silence, etc.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
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Upstate, New York

Both Jedi and Space Marines are very dependent on plot armor. When The Force/Emperor is with you, you can stand against literally endless hordes and not falter. But when the plot shifts, and your time is up, you and all your friends go down like chumps to mooks.

Could the auto-senses in a marine helmet, or just their instincts and training spot a predator? Maybe. Would the plasma just burn through the ceremite breastplate? Also maybe. Depends who’s the protagonist and what the demands of the story are.

One of the issues debating fictional universes.

Is the pred shooting Tau pulse rifle plasma? Or the Good Stuff (tm) that one-shots marines?

   
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 Nevelon wrote:
Both Jedi and Space Marines are very dependent on plot armor. When The Force/Emperor is with you, you can stand against literally endless hordes and not falter. But when the plot shifts, and your time is up, you and all your friends go down like chumps to mooks.

Could the auto-senses in a marine helmet, or just their instincts and training spot a predator? Maybe. Would the plasma just burn through the ceremite breastplate? Also maybe. Depends who’s the protagonist and what the demands of the story are.

One of the issues debating fictional universes.

Is the pred shooting Tau pulse rifle plasma? Or the Good Stuff (tm) that one-shots marines?


Indeed. A friend of mine, who is a Marvelfan, keeps arguing that Wolverine would be able to kill hundreds of Marines while I'm like, no, Wolverine would just be a Space Wolve Pack leader with a pair of Lightning claws, feel no pain and It will not die, Marines are just that good. Iron Man is also just a more handy crisis suit.

Is Batman simply Konrad Curze? Probably not, he's just an imperial Guardsman with Konrad Curzes gear.

Same with the Predator. I'd say his plasmacaster is indeed a plasma gun and his wristblade is a lightning claw, so he lacks armour for sure, but he'd be a good match for a Space Marine.Though admittedly predators have been beaten by a Catachan, an arbites, a genestealer and by some Scions. I guess for the upgraded predator you'd need a Primaris Marine to match, they're also similarly bad written fiction.

Also, as a Star Trek Fanboy I'd say a Starfleet officer would easily deflect Bolter shots with his force field and a phaser rifle on maximum mode would punch easily through Marine armour like a Lascannon. In 40K terms though he'd probably just be a firewarrior with a 4++ invul against shooting but no armour in CC whatsoever .

Aliens are an easy one, they're simply purestrain genestealers.

I guess we need some tougher emenies, I'd like to throw in The Blob. He can only be killed by Space Wolve frost weapons, but other than that he'll nomnom all dem marines.
   
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Star Treks Q can snap the Marine (or the planet he is on... or the solar system...) out of existence. And judging from a Voyager episode where one Q tried to kill himself they can hardly die at all, even if they want to.

A DS9 shapeshifter like Odo might also be interesting as I'm not sure if those can be killed at all without an energy weapon like a phaser or disruptor. Bolters, knifes and grenades should Not really have any permanent effect.

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Les Etats Unis

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Both Jedi and Space Marines are very dependent on plot armor. When The Force/Emperor is with you, you can stand against literally endless hordes and not falter. But when the plot shifts, and your time is up, you and all your friends go down like chumps to mooks.

Could the auto-senses in a marine helmet, or just their instincts and training spot a predator? Maybe. Would the plasma just burn through the ceremite breastplate? Also maybe. Depends who’s the protagonist and what the demands of the story are.

One of the issues debating fictional universes.

Is the pred shooting Tau pulse rifle plasma? Or the Good Stuff (tm) that one-shots marines?


Indeed. A friend of mine, who is a Marvelfan, keeps arguing that Wolverine would be able to kill hundreds of Marines while I'm like, no, Wolverine would just be a Space Wolve Pack leader with a pair of Lightning claws, feel no pain and It will not die, Marines are just that good. Iron Man is also just a more handy crisis suit.

Is Batman simply Konrad Curze? Probably not, he's just an imperial Guardsman with Konrad Curzes gear.

Same with the Predator. I'd say his plasmacaster is indeed a plasma gun and his wristblade is a lightning claw, so he lacks armour for sure, but he'd be a good match for a Space Marine.Though admittedly predators have been beaten by a Catachan, an arbites, a genestealer and by some Scions. I guess for the upgraded predator you'd need a Primaris Marine to match, they're also similarly bad written fiction.

Also, as a Star Trek Fanboy I'd say a Starfleet officer would easily deflect Bolter shots with his force field and a phaser rifle on maximum mode would punch easily through Marine armour like a Lascannon. In 40K terms though he'd probably just be a firewarrior with a 4++ invul against shooting but no armour in CC whatsoever .

Aliens are an easy one, they're simply purestrain genestealers.

I guess we need some tougher emenies, I'd like to throw in The Blob. He can only be killed by Space Wolve frost weapons, but other than that he'll nomnom all dem marines.


Although you obviously mentioned it, you're definitely underrating Wolverine's healing aspect. I'm honestly not too familiar with Wolverine's comic appearances, so I can't say exactly what he's gone through without dying, but I know it's a lot. Deadpool, though, has the same healing factor as Wolverine and has walked off a nuke, and he doesn't even have the indestructible endoskeleton. Wolverine could definitely take on the average tactical squad without being incapacitated, as long as there weren't any psykers around. You're probably right on Iron Man, though, at least in his pre-2010's comics depictions.

EDIT: I should clarify: When I mean "nuke," I mean a direct hit with a nuclear bomb. Not glancing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 07:28:18


Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I always enjoy this sort of fun thought experiment. IMHO due to 40k's origins, most of the well known sci-fi have had some influence on the development of 40k,so for me, the easiest way to make a comparison is to find the closest equivalent in the 40k universe and compare that to a marine as a jumping off point:

Dutch and his Special Forces in Predator ≈ Catachans
Starship Troopers ≈ Guardsman
Starship Troopers Arachnid ≈ Hormagaunt
Alien Xenomorph ≈ Hormagaunt or Genestealer
Alien Queen ≈ Tyranid Warrior
Predator ≈ Lictor with a gun
T-100 ≈ Necron Warrior
Jedi ≈ Psyker Inquisitor
Light Saber ≈ Power Sword

etc.

Of course not everyone will agree with my equivalents, and how powerful each is will depend on the writer, plot armour etc, and within 40k power level varies tremendously between fluff and tabletop, and between different editions and publications.

I find it easiest rather than initially comparing things against a Space Marine, to instead start of comparing to a Guardsman, since most sci-fi settings have an equivalent (Storm troopers/clone troopers; MI from Starship Troopers etc) and see the power dynamic between the guardsman equivalent and the "other" (jedi, xenomorph, predator etc) and then see if the power difference is similar to the 40k equivalent to establish a baseline to then compare to a Space Marine.

But that's just me, probably overthinking it and getting carried away with my own head canon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 08:54:34


 
   
Made in de
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 Pyroalchi wrote:
Star Treks Q can snap the Marine (or the planet he is on... or the solar system...) out of existence. And judging from a Voyager episode where one Q tried to kill himself they can hardly die at all, even if they want to.

A DS9 shapeshifter like Odo might also be interesting as I'm not sure if those can be killed at all without an energy weapon like a phaser or disruptor. Bolters, knifes and grenades should Not really have any permanent effect.


Star Trek has a lot of god-like entities a Marine would have a hard time to fight against because Marines aren't clever enough to talk them to death like a proper Starfleet Officer can .



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Flipsiders wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Both Jedi and Space Marines are very dependent on plot armor. When The Force/Emperor is with you, you can stand against literally endless hordes and not falter. But when the plot shifts, and your time is up, you and all your friends go down like chumps to mooks.

Could the auto-senses in a marine helmet, or just their instincts and training spot a predator? Maybe. Would the plasma just burn through the ceremite breastplate? Also maybe. Depends who’s the protagonist and what the demands of the story are.

One of the issues debating fictional universes.

Is the pred shooting Tau pulse rifle plasma? Or the Good Stuff (tm) that one-shots marines?


Indeed. A friend of mine, who is a Marvelfan, keeps arguing that Wolverine would be able to kill hundreds of Marines while I'm like, no, Wolverine would just be a Space Wolve Pack leader with a pair of Lightning claws, feel no pain and It will not die, Marines are just that good. Iron Man is also just a more handy crisis suit.


Although you obviously mentioned it, you're definitely underrating Wolverine's healing aspect. I'm honestly not too familiar with Wolverine's comic appearances, so I can't say exactly what he's gone through without dying, but I know it's a lot. Deadpool, though, has the same healing factor as Wolverine and has walked off a nuke, and he doesn't even have the indestructible endoskeleton. Wolverine could definitely take on the average tactical squad without being incapacitated, as long as there weren't any psykers around. You're probably right on Iron Man, though, at least in his pre-2010's comics depictions.

EDIT: I should clarify: When I mean "nuke," I mean a direct hit with a nuclear bomb. Not glancing.


Do we have an example of something in 40K that can withstand something like a Nuke? I mean, at Isstvan Marines dug in to survive the virus bombing, Death Guard Marines are also known to be able to walk through radiation, but that's different from a direct hit... What we can say though is that Wolverines skeleton is made from adamantium - the same material as Terminator armour. So things that can punch through terminator armour in 40K should be able to punch Wolverine as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 10:06:50


 
   
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Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

it's impossible to really compare things, especially stuff that doesn't make logical sense.
How do you heal off being ground zero of a nuclear detonation? You would simply cease to be. You can just hand-wave and say "he just can", okay then, he's literally invincible and wins every fight by default. Until he meets Vulkan who has similar problems and now it's an infinitely recurring fight because both sides are incapable of fully losing.

Not to mention characters vary wildly in levels of ability between authors.
If you take a Marine at their worst, they're just marginally better than a Guardsman. If you take them at their best, they're practically gods.
   
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I mean, do these space marines adhere to real-world physics in these fights, or are they "GW logic" space marines, where GW pretends that they don't have such things as a soft, squishy, essentially human-durability brain inside a very good very hard helmet/armor? (often not even in that armor as well)

Any kind of explosive weapon that generates a sufficient shockwave should be able to realistically kill an astartes just by turning his brain into soup inside his armor, and anyone with any kind of telekinesis-type powers like the force should have the ability to just concentrate on the head area and put the smoosh on it.

Generally though, because it's impossible to convey that that's happening and it kinda kills the tension, it's pretty rare to have characters with those kinds of abilities do something like that - Stranger Things is really the only thing I can remember recently that even acknowledges that someone with psychic abilities would be able to basically kill someone via mega-stroke.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Bristol (UK)

The shockwave needs to propagate through the armour/skull first. Especially if they're fully sealed inside a suit, I don't think Astartes surviving explosions is the most ridiculous thing they do.

As for force or psychic abilities.
Well numerous psychic powers in 40k do similar things, the Blood Angels have a psychic power to boil the blood in people's veins. It's not very powerful on the tabletop but it's brutal in lore.
How does the force even work? Obviously it can move and crush objects, but I believe it's only ever been showing moving/crushing things the user can see - so no crushing a brain only know where it is by inference.
   
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Having re played through the games recently, please someone with a better idea of both IP's lore do the Resi tyrants!
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
The shockwave needs to propagate through the armour/skull first. Especially if they're fully sealed inside a suit, I don't think Astartes surviving explosions is the most ridiculous thing they do.

As for force or psychic abilities.
Well numerous psychic powers in 40k do similar things, the Blood Angels have a psychic power to boil the blood in people's veins. It's not very powerful on the tabletop but it's brutal in lore.
How does the force even work? Obviously it can move and crush objects, but I believe it's only ever been showing moving/crushing things the user can see - so no crushing a brain only know where it is by inference.


I find your lack of faith disturbing, honestly.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
That is, unless we're really stressing the whole "home field advantage" thing, since if the Jedi is able to get within melee range then the Marine is as good as toast.

Unless Ceramite is anything like Beskar, or like...



Ceramite doesn't need to be like Beskar. Assuming the Jedi is the size of a regular human then stabbing a Space Marine with a lightsaber would barely hurt the marine. Maybe if the Jedi stabbed the Space Marine in the heart or in the head it could do some serious damage but anywhere else it would just be a minor inconvenience. Also, let's remember that a lightsaber's diameter is smaller (I assume) than a soda can and then remember the size of a Space Marine. The lightsaber is even more harmless if we use a Primaris Marine. The Jedi would have to be extremely lucky to A) dodge all the bullets and B) actually cut the Space Marine. Considering the Space Marine probably won't be cut too seriously as Jedi fighting styles tend to primarily go towards the chest (in the movies at least, can't show decapitations to the kids) all the Space Marine would have to reach up to grab the Jedi and squeeze, then splat! no more Jedi. Several Jedi could probably take a Space Marine down quickly but one-on-one, not a chance.

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Here's some Sci-Fi alien species that could take on an Astartes without jumping into "well, they're basically gods" segment like the Q.

#1 - The Vorlons (Babylon 5)
The Vorlons are an extremely ancient race that has evolved into being energy beings, but they're far from god-like. Indeed, B5 energy beings were shown as still being susceptible to projectile energy weapons, though kinetic weapons could pass right through them. In order to be accepted around the other races, and for the purposes of gathering information and protecting them, the Vorlons would wear Encounter Suits; psionically powered suits.

Space Marines would likely be able to withstand the psionic assault of the Vorlons, whose powers are akin to that of a rogue psyker, but once the Encounter Suit is destroyed, the Space Marine has no default method of fighting the Vorlon. It'll take some time, as the Vorlon's psionic blasts will not immediately kill the Space Marine, but the Vorlon will likely be victorious.

#2 - Dark Elf (Thor 2: The Dark World)
The main reason these guys could win, especially considering a home field advantage, is that the Dark Elves have access to the black hole grenade. Considering that this weapon can kill and destroy an enemy that seemed to be stronger than THOR (who is, as we said, in that "god tier" so is off-limits as far as I'm concerned), then it should have no problem dealing with an Astartes. If it wasn't home-field advantage, I might have given this one to the Astartes in being able to dodge or avoid the grenade, but with home-field advantage, the Dark Elf is going to lay this as a trap.

#3 - Zerg Ultralisk (Starcraft Series)
Should this count could as a "soldier"? I feel like this shouldn't count. It's a soldier in the same way that a Carnifex is a soldier. It's not. It's a walking tank. Moving on.

#4 - Avatar (XCOM series)
A psionically powered super soldier that can teleport around the battlefield, has rapid healing capabilities, equipped with hybrid plasma-psionic weaponry, and can mind control the Space Marine? AND it's home field advantage? A single basic Astartes has no chance against this. Now, if there were multiple Astartes involved, I give it the Astartes, but one-on-one this one goes to the Aliens. That's X-COM baby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 15:42:55


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
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Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

 Yarium wrote:

#4 - Avatar (XCOM series)
A psionically powered super soldier that can teleport around the battlefield, has rapid healing capabilities, equipped with hybrid plasma-psionic weaponry, and can mind control the Space Marine? AND it's home field advantage? A single basic Astartes has no chance against this. Now, if there were multiple Astartes involved, I give it the Astartes, but one-on-one this one goes to the Aliens. That's X-COM baby.

I'm not so convinced. One ranger with Rapid Fire makes short work of the Avatar. That's a regular human with a plasma-shotgun.
Psy powers in XCom also seem relatively tame next to a lot of the psychic powers 40k can boast. Although I only know XCom from the game itself where 40k powers are probably even more tame so
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 kirotheavenger wrote:
 Yarium wrote:

#4 - Avatar (XCOM series)
A psionically powered super soldier that can teleport around the battlefield, has rapid healing capabilities, equipped with hybrid plasma-psionic weaponry, and can mind control the Space Marine? AND it's home field advantage? A single basic Astartes has no chance against this. Now, if there were multiple Astartes involved, I give it the Astartes, but one-on-one this one goes to the Aliens. That's X-COM baby.

I'm not so convinced. One ranger with Rapid Fire makes short work of the Avatar. That's a regular human with a plasma-shotgun.
Psy powers in XCom also seem relatively tame next to a lot of the psychic powers 40k can boast. Although I only know XCom from the game itself where 40k powers are probably even more tame so


Two ways I'd argue against that. First, you just said "plasma shotgun". That's more advanced than the default load-out of a Space Marine. Secondly, you're assuming that the Ranger gets to go first and gets in range of the Avatar and hits, which isn't for sure (indeed, getting a reflection here is really, really terrifying). Since this is Avatar homefield advantage, we can assume that the Avatar gets to go first, which in a one-on-one engagement and not pulling punches means Space Marine is mind controlled. If it wasn't for these two things together, I'd say you're right and I'd give it to the Space Marine, but since the author said all advantages go to the Sci Fi alien, well, that's pretty much gg vs the Avatar.

EDIT: Ehh... he didn't say all advantages, so more wiggle room for the Marine there. Still, that Mind Control is a jerk move!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 16:02:27


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

I'm sure Astartes would have pretty high Willpower, the Mind Control could fail.

Plasma is one of those things that varies *wildly* in sci-fi lore, it's impossible to tell exactly how deadly it is.
Although thinking about it, a Plasma Rifle in XCom would reliably kill a human in modern/'conventional' armour, you need fancy alloys and stuff to survive even one shot.

I had initially assumed XCom plasma was fairly weak, but you've made me think about it more and perhaps it is more equivalent to 40k's and very deadly.
Which would suggest that Avatars are very strong and you may have a point.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





I likewise didn't consider the defensive mental stats of the Marine. You're right, the Mind Control has a high failure chance, even with the very high mental score of the Avatar. I was thinking more the "Commander's Avatar" that was a guaranteed 100% chance, but that's NOT the version that's used by the aliens. You actually have me thinking the Marine can win this one now!

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






At the end of the day, it all just comes down to who writes the fictional encounter between the two fictional universes.

This is what it comes down to in all these comparisons: because no science fiction or fantasy actually takes place in a realistic material universe, and 40k absolutely takes place in an incredibly heavily plot-armored setting where many many inconveniences of the actual material universe are suspended because it wouldn't be cool.

Nobody ever happens to have a sniper rifle or an auto-targeting system or whatever that happens to be at the ready to decorate the armor of the squad of astartes with the contents of the skull of the heroic sergeant who isn't wearing a helmet, because GW is not in the business of writing Forever War or Starship Troopers where war is intended to be portrayed as the terrifying, emasculating, random idiotic mess it actually is, they're in the business of writing a cool power fantasy designed to allow you, the reader, to imagine that you are a gigantic super powerful invincible spaceman that can crush all your foes.

The answer to who would win between an Astartes and the doom guy or the halo guy or the space jedi or the predator is just whether the story is being written by someone who is a fanboy of the space marine or a fanboy of the other thing. They'll imagine themselves in the shoes of whichever they're the fan of, and they'll jerk themselves raw while imagining how awesomely their thing will dispatch the thing that other people who are fans of the wrong thing like.

People are already doing it, in this thread, immediately, because that's all these discussions ever are.

Its like that hilariously stupid show that they had on the """"""""""""""""""""""""""History""""""""""""""""""""" channel called 'THE ULTIMATE WARROR" or something, where a couple of amazing early oughts dudebros use fake computer stuff to 'scientifically prove' who would win in a fight between two combatants like ninjas pirates KGB agents samurai etc and then they pay hilariously overacting larpers to re-enact what they imagine the fight would go like. There is no aspect of that show that isn't absolute peak cringe content.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

A Mind controlled Drone from the Culture would just go through the space marine at relativistic speeds before the Marine even had time to react.

   
 
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