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With chaos worshippers, err Games-workshop teasing us with codex releases, how long do you think it will take for chaos-marines to get their extra wound, also grey-knights need their extra wound..

on a side note, I firmly believe the new Astra-militarum codex won't be released until atleast the end of 2022

Also for all the people about to attack me with covid excuses, we are talking codex's, as in something that can be written, doesn't require any real actual labor..

The edition after we get Primaris Chaos Marines, I'm thinking. This edition they'll do the "Creations of Bile" as bigger 2W CSM with completely new kits, and after everyone dumps their old CSM to build new CSM armies they'll bump CSM to 2W in 10th.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The edition after we get Primaris Chaos Marines, I'm thinking. This edition they'll do the "Creations of Bile" as bigger 2W CSM with completely new kits, and after everyone dumps their old CSM to build new CSM armies they'll bump CSM to 2W in 10th.

Nahh. It'll be in a supplement that gets invalidated when 10th is released six months after its release.

bat702 wrote:
With chaos worshippers, err Games-workshop teasing us with codex releases, how long do you think it will take for chaos-marines to get their extra wound, also grey-knights need their extra wound..

on a side note, I firmly believe the new Astra-militarum codex won't be released until atleast the end of 2022

Also for all the people about to attack me with covid excuses, we are talking codex's, as in something that can be written, doesn't require any real actual labor..

Ah yeah, with heretical incantations they force the books to emerges from computers like an exorcised demon from a body and they directly teleport on store shelves, their own version of hell.

Otherwise, the answer is : we don't know.

It'll come when the chaos dex comes. Ridiculous that they didn't fix it with an FAQ on day 1.

As for when you'll get the codex, there's reason to believe that Admech and Knights are on deck due to the Book of Rust; Sisters appear to be on deck as a follow up to Piety and Pain, and Orks aren't tied to anything yet, but they've had a model previewed, and they're likely to be in Charadon Book 2.

Chaos is probably in line right after that; they may even be in Charadon Book 2 alongside the Orks.

If GW has to stick to one Codex/ Month, that's August. That's also assuming that those four potential Codexes do in fact get released. If any of those predictions are off base, it may be sooner.

Pessimistically I think CSM might be waiting a minute. They were the second book in 8th and in GW’s eyes got a part 2 release even. I think Demons are much more likely. GW wants to sell that giant new Belakor model sell and the new rules will definitely be a selling point for a demons codex.

Plus given the power armor fatigue, we need to see some other codexes release. I’m not happy about it but we all would like to shoot at something other that 2W T4 3+ save.

Sometime before Dec.31st 202*.

I couldn't quite make out the last digit in my vision, but it's definitely happening sometime in the 2020's.

I hope soon.
I hope they cave in and just do a WD or an FAQ update as a stop gap at least otherwise I fear it might be years.

I think its such BS... When the next survey comes around that should be one of the questions along with when we get the rest of plastic aspects :p

Later this year will be Abadon's (fourth) 13th Black Crusade, where he will unlock new Chaos Powers and infuse his Legions of Space Marines with new powah (2 wounds!). A new box set will be released, and shortly thereafter, 10th edition will come out with all new rules.

bat702 wrote:
Also for all the people about to attack me with covid excuses, we are talking codex's, as in something that can be written, doesn't require any real actual labor..

Well, it does require considerable labor to even just layout a book, but once that labor is done it needs to be printed and shipped and they've clearly stated a few times that the shipping container didn't arrive on time. What typically happens is you order and the product sits on the dock until the shipping container is full. Then when it leaves the dock it takes weeks to arrive. It is unlikely they fly such a heavy product due to the cost.

For real tho, chaos worshippers.. err games-workshop will only release a codex when they are set to release some box-set that they plan on selling out on, so who knows by the time they are ready to release their new chaos vs even newer primaris marines box-set

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The edition after we get Primaris Chaos Marines, I'm thinking. This edition they'll do the "Creations of Bile" as bigger 2W CSM with completely new kits, and after everyone dumps their old CSM to build new CSM armies they'll bump CSM to 2W in 10th.

Nahh. It'll be in a supplement that gets invalidated when 10th is released six months after its release.

I lol'd.

It's pretty stupid that they didn't update them and GK at the same time.

Im glad someone else finds this stupid, I keep getting hit by games-workshop fan boys

Considering everything got a points rebalance at the start of 9th anyways, it's such a dumb move not to give all CSM the 2 wounds. How they fare in the meta and affect codex internal balance would be free mass playtesting for the codex

Nah, one of the pieces of wargear that Chaos left behind after they fled to the eye of terror besides assault cannons, razorbacks and land speeders was their second wound.

Its faith in the Emperor that gives all space marines (and Ultramarines most of all) their second, third and sometimes even fourth wound. Chaos can never attain this level of awesome because they are traitor scum, cursed to be butchered at the hands of Rowboat Girlyman and his marines.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The edition after we get Primaris Chaos Marines, I'm thinking. This edition they'll do the "Creations of Bile" as bigger 2W CSM with completely new kits, and after everyone dumps their old CSM to build new CSM armies they'll bump CSM to 2W in 10th.

Nahh. It'll be in a supplement that gets invalidated when 10th is released six months after its release.

I lol'd.

It's pretty stupid that they didn't update them and GK at the same time.

Glad I got a laugh out of you. And agreed, it seems like an easy errata to make. Add 1W, change points to X. But they didn't, so I guess playing CSM will just be playing marines on "Hard Mode" for a while. Fortunately, after playing Night Lords for two decades, I'm already pretty used to that.....

Considering the extra points space marines pay for that extra wound, is it worth it to dump that on Chaos space marines with no extra/revised special rules in the FAQ? Honestly the biggest atrocity was screwing xenos over by cutting them out of the weapons overhaul because their flamer was unfortunate enough to be called a burna...

Let's go by the most optimistical case.

GW said that they were going to release only 1 codex/expansion per month until March. This means that we can expect Drukhary this month and charadon + Admech in April.
It will then be Orks and Sisters in May.
Tyranids have been getting a few rumor engines recently, so they are probably the next xeno faction being released, but GW will hardly release 2 xeno factions in 2 months. After the Belakor release I'm betting on GK and Daemons being releaed together in June.
July is now probably bugs time, but who's the second one in July and what comes after that, is anyone's guess.

From this, we can see that even in the best scenario, CSM will arrive in the second part of July.

macluvin wrote:
Considering the extra points space marines pay for that extra wound, is it worth it to dump that on Chaos space marines with no extra/revised special rules in the FAQ? Honestly the biggest atrocity was screwing xenos over by cutting them out of the weapons overhaul because their flamer was unfortunate enough to be called a burna...

Yes. Yes it is totally worth that.

The xeno weapon overhaul failure was an atrocity, absolutely, and both are GW either knowingly or unknowingly screaming that if you're not playing Loyalist Space Marines, you're second class at best, but the answer is still Yes.

 CEO Kasen wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Considering the extra points space marines pay for that extra wound, is it worth it to dump that on Chaos space marines with no extra/revised special rules in the FAQ? Honestly the biggest atrocity was screwing xenos over by cutting them out of the weapons overhaul because their flamer was unfortunate enough to be called a burna...

Yes. Yes it is totally worth that.

The xeno weapon overhaul failure was an atrocity, absolutely, and both are GW either knowingly or unknowingly screaming that if you're not playing Loyalist Space Marines, you're second class at best, but the answer is still Yes.

actually it's more along the line of GW willfully artificially frustrating people in order to hike sales i assume.

and no, gw is not above cheap mobile game tactics.

 CEO Kasen wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Considering the extra points space marines pay for that extra wound, is it worth it to dump that on Chaos space marines with no extra/revised special rules in the FAQ? Honestly the biggest atrocity was screwing xenos over by cutting them out of the weapons overhaul because their flamer was unfortunate enough to be called a burna...

Yes. Yes it is totally worth that.

The xeno weapon overhaul failure was an atrocity, absolutely, and both are GW either knowingly or unknowingly screaming that if you're not playing Loyalist Space Marines, you're second class at best, but the answer is still Yes.

OK, boys and girls, time to dial back the hyperbole.

At no point does not updating some stats in a game qualify as a freaking atrocity.

Distasteful? Sure. Poorly thought out? Absolutely. Offputting to some? It certainly seems so.

But an atrocity? No.

I'd like to see Grey Knights, Thousand Sons, And Chaos Marines done sooner than later, just to get on the same page. An FAQ would have been a great holdover, like the successor chapters had (briefly).

I'd like to see how creations of bile proceeds moving forward, as that's a pretty cool subfaction.

Not Online!!! 796837 11076838 wrote:

actually it's more along the line of GW willfully artificially frustrating people in order to hike sales i assume.

and no, gw is not above cheap mobile game tactics.

spliting a codex in to two books, looks very much like a mobile game update or patch that gets spread over a year or more. Just look at Raid Shadow Legends.

At no point does not updating some stats in a game qualify as a freaking atrocity.

One of the 3 defintions of what atrocity is according to our dictionary is something diss tasteful. I find paying 21pts for a strike with 1, when a jump pack venguard veteran costs 21 pts too exactly that.
Same goes for higher cost 2W termintors, without +4 to wound on at all time, and a ton of other stuff.

Too long. They should have done an errata to do it, rather than have CSM (and GK) wait in perpetuity completely outclassed for no good reason. If they knew they wouldn't be releasing those codexes immediately one after the other, they should have done it as part of the errata.

It's bullgak and people need to call it out.

Never.

Cawl is busy arranging for loads of ships he secretly built to be packed with Blanks he cloned.

There will be approximately one hundred and eleventy billion, and will do to the tear in reliant what Imodium does to your nipsy.

Chaos is then squatted.

Meh, my DE army is being half-heartedly updated at the moment. I'm sure my CSM army will get their mediocre time in the sun soon enough.

bat702 wrote:
With chaos worshippers, err Games-workshop teasing us with codex releases, how long do you think it will take for chaos-marines to get their extra wound, also grey-knights need their extra wound..

on a side note, I firmly believe the new Astra-militarum codex won't be released until atleast the end of 2022

Also for all the people about to attack me with covid excuses, we are talking codex's, as in something that can be written, doesn't require any real actual labor..

Hard for anyone to answer this question. My hope is: as long as it takes to write a good 9th edition Codex.

CSM are in a bad place right now. I don't think Covid is as relevant as power level compared to other armies. CSM need more than a second wound, they need to address this basic question of what kind of army they are supposed to be going forward.

Wrote up a critique of CSM ranged shooting compared with Deathwatch. TLDR: our best units are very inefficient compared to the lowest-tier loyalists. I could write other comparisons of tanks and melee units, the situation is a little less gloomy but still not optimistic.

My sense is GW will need some time to grapple with these issues before they can provide a thoughtful response, and that they don't want to get it wrong. So I'd guess early-2022 before we see a Codex.

 techsoldaten wrote:

bat702 wrote:
With chaos worshippers, err Games-workshop teasing us with codex releases, how long do you think it will take for chaos-marines to get their extra wound, also grey-knights need their extra wound..

on a side note, I firmly believe the new Astra-militarum codex won't be released until atleast the end of 2022

Also for all the people about to attack me with covid excuses, we are talking codex's, as in something that can be written, doesn't require any real actual labor..

Hard for anyone to answer this question. My hope is: as long as it takes to write a good 9th edition Codex.

CSM are in a bad place right now. I don't think Covid is as relevant as power level compared to other armies. CSM need more than a second wound, they need to address this basic question of what kind of army they are supposed to be going forward.

Wrote up a critique of CSM ranged shooting compared with Deathwatch. TLDR: our best units are very inefficient compared to the lowest-tier loyalists. I could write other comparisons of tanks and melee units, the situation is a little less gloomy but still not optimistic.

My sense is GW will need some time to grapple with these issues before they can provide a thoughtful response, and that they don't want to get it wrong. So I'd guess early-2022 before we see a Codex.

You assume GW has any idea what they want CSM to be going forward. They haven't had any idea for Chaos since the 3.5 codex and everyone bitched and moaned then because they were finally good. It has been clear for years now that the design team are mostly marine fanboys and want to push the horsegak of Marines as the main players and everyone else as faceless NPCs they completely dominate.

If CSM had something beyond being spiky but objectively worse loyalist I'd have hope for good rules but I started them in 6th and the only reason I'm still playing them is that I couldn't bring myself to sell my favourite faction. All the super good lists I remember are built around using Dino-bots or playing any Deamonkin list when they were a thing.
I don't believe that the design team is stacked with loyalist fanboys or that the higher-ups are making non-loyalist marines have worse rules to sell more marines. It's just a lack of vision for an army that could have got so much done for it but sales trumped all and for CSM they haven't been able to recover from it.

They need someone with passion for CSM again, and rethink what makes them unique. Originally the whole "like marines but using archaic weaponry" was cool, back in 2nd edition. Now though? It doesn't cut the mustard anymore.