Switch Theme:

What does out-of-universe lore actually say about "Red Ones go faster"?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Red Ork vehicles being the fastest is established as a thing in the setting, that's not really in question here. It's that i've seen this rule used as 'evidence' for the idea of Orks affecting reality with their beliefs, yet I can't recall seeing any actual quotes that support that being the case specifically. I remember there is an in-universe theory about it being their beliefs that causes red vehicles to be the fastest, but beyond that, I don't know of anything that actually supports it being their belief doing it.

The Orks generate a gestalt field, but It doesn't seem clear on which of these it is with the Red Vehicles aspect or if there's some other reason (E.g., they just paint the best vehicles red):
1. The Gestalt field just a built-in already programmed effect of making Red Faster that has then entered Ork culture and/or given them that belief. The field effect is responsible for that part of Ork Society.
2. The Orks believe it (even though it's more like a fact to the Orks, not a conscious choice) so the field then does it. Ork society is specifically responsible for the field effect.

The latter of these is the one that has been memed to the point of absurdity, where it's became "Orks believe it so its true" and then applied to all sorts of other things like just being responsible making their technology work at all (even though, as far as I'm aware, the idea of belief connecting to their technology has never once been established, while the technological skill and prowess of Meks has been many, many times), but I've not seen any quotes beyond that proposed theory that specifically mention it's their beliefs having an effect. It's like people take it at face value anyway and don't apply any nuance to what's been said.

So what does the out-of-universe lore (E.g. descriptions in the codex, the stuff that isn't written with an unreliable narrator) say about the subject? What is the evidence for it being specifically their belief causing it - Can anyone give quotes that go one way or the other?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 10:51:19


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





4th edition ork codex - page 93.
"Orks believe that a vehicle that has been painted red can outstrip a similar vehicle that isn't. As odd as it may seem, they are quite right"

In terms of belief, 7th ed 'da fixer upperz'
"In typically Orky fashion, the sheer belief that these tools can work wonders often seems to mean they do just that!"
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The ‘clap your hands if you believe’ aspect of orks was originally presented in the 3rd Ed book as an exaggerated Ad Mech theory, though there is substantial evidence that there is some truth to it.

The best interpretation IMO is the ‘psychic lubricant’ one - I.e. orkish belief won’t make something work that wouldn’t otherwise function, but will help keep things running, making up for abuse by users, poor materials, dodgy workmanship etc.

It might stop a jam or malfunction that would have otherwise occurred, get that extra bit if performance out of an engine, etc; nothing majorly physics defying, but just making things run that bit more smoothly.

WRT red paint jobs specifically, there’s two interpretations (that might both be true, even for the same vehicle) - 1) orkish belief makes a red vehicle just perform that little bit better; and 2) ork mechs subconsciously think to paint the fastest vehicles they make red.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The ‘clap your hands if you believe’ aspect of orks was originally presented in the 3rd Ed book as an exaggerated Ad Mech theory, though there is substantial evidence that there is some truth to it.

The best interpretation IMO is the ‘psychic lubricant’ one - I.e. orkish belief won’t make something work that wouldn’t otherwise function, but will help keep things running, making up for abuse by users, poor materials, dodgy workmanship etc.

It might stop a jam or malfunction that would have otherwise occurred, get that extra bit if performance out of an engine, etc; nothing majorly physics defying, but just making things run that bit more smoothly.

WRT red paint jobs specifically, there’s two interpretations (that might both be true, even for the same vehicle) - 1) orkish belief makes a red vehicle just perform that little bit better; and 2) ork mechs subconsciously think to paint the fastest vehicles they make red.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/06 11:59:25


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





A.T. wrote:
4th edition ork codex - page 93.
"Orks believe that a vehicle that has been painted red can outstrip a similar vehicle that isn't. As odd as it may seem, they are quite right"

In terms of belief, 7th ed 'da fixer upperz'
"In typically Orky fashion, the sheer belief that these tools can work wonders often seems to mean they do just that!"


The first one doesn't say anything about their belief being what's causing it, which is the point I was making really.

The 2nd one does seem more supportive at surface level, but it says Orks believe it can repair any no matter what, and then says "sometimes they get them working" meaning there are times when they don't - so what they believe isn't being made true because they have that belief. It comes across to me as more like they're just so confident that they can get it working with those tools that they manage to actually do that occasionally, in a force of will sort of way.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 12:06:39


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

its worth pointing out that non-orks have been able to use orkish techology repeatedly in various fiction pieces*, so the underlying techology works. The Meks knowledge is effectively hard-coded into their genes, so they can't explain it in a scientific manner, they just know that this design will work, and then try and make that.


As far as i know, thier is no authoritative, "out of universe" lore that explains the red ones go faster, but its something that is very much a self-reinforcing concept, given the tendency for orks to paint a fast vehicle red to make it go fasta, which leads to all the fast vehicles being red, which lends credence to the red ones going fasta, so more vehicles are painted red, etc. it could also be a purely drivers psychology thing as well (ie the driver drives harder or more recklessly becuase its sure his red buggy can take it, meaning his slightly faster).

Also, thier is almost no authoritative lore in 40K, the vast, vast majority of it is still heavily biased towards one faction or the other. most of the faction codexes present their own factions take on the events, not a neutral take. I know that the space wolf version of the 1st war of Armageddon used to be very different form the inquistion/grey knights version, with both painting the other side as unreasonably hardliners unwilling to compromise.


*to name a few black library examples, both Ragnar Blackmane and CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!! have driven ork buggies they stole and used the mounted weapons against the orks without issue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/06 12:15:13


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





xerxeskingofking wrote:
its worth pointing out that non-orks have been able to use orkish techology repeatedly in various fiction pieces*, so the underlying techology works. The Meks knowledge is effectively hard-coded into their genes, so they can't explain it in a scientific manner, they just know that this design will work, and then try and make that.


As far as i know, thier is no out of universe lore that explains the red ones go faster, but its something that is very much a self-reinforcing concept, given the tendency for orks to paint a fast vehicle red to make it go fasta, which leads to all the fast vehicles being red, which lends credence to the red ones going fasta, so more vehicles are painted red, etc. it could also be a purely drivers psychology thing as well (ie the driver drives harder or more recklessly becuase its sure his red buggy can take it, meaning his slightly faster)


*to name a few black library examples, both Ragnar Blackmane and CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!! have driven ork buggies they stole and used the mounted weapons against the orks without issue.


In all the quotes I've read from various places that discuss Ork technology in modern/recent lore, not one of them except the Genetor Anzion theory even hints at the idea of belief being involved with their technology. There have been mentions of their stuff being very unreliable and barely working and such in the hands of non-Orks, but conflating "The Gestalt Field" and "Orks beliefs" and "their technology working" together as all one thing to me just comes across as people applying no nuance at all to what's been said and leaping from one thing to another without real reason to do so, really.

It's a well established aspect of their lore that Meks know how to make things that even the Imperium would barely understand, while the idea of them just being magical cosplayers who believe so hard that the impossible suddenly becomes real because they want it to be has not been established, that I've seen.

The Gestalt field is definitely a thing that has effects, but it's such an absurd jump from "They create a gestalt field" to "their technology works because they think it does" that I'd like to see some actual evidence for.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 12:20:39


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The first one doesn't say anything about their belief being what's causing it, which is the point I was making really.
The quote does make it clear that red ones go faster, and that the orks are correct in their belief that painting the vehicle red is what is making it go faster.


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's a well established aspect of their lore that Meks know how to make things that even the Imperium would barely understand, while the idea of them just being magical cosplayers who believe so hard that the impossible suddenly becomes real because they want it to be has not been established, that I've seen.
That having been said lore can be provided supporting the magic cosplay angle (the Anzion quote you mention) as well as various references to the orks psychic field.

You won't find a quote in any book suggesting that meks are making jet powered paint. And as the first quote above indicates it is the paint - or the orks belief in the paint - which increases the vehicles speed.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





A.T. wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The first one doesn't say anything about their belief being what's causing it, which is the point I was making really.
The quote does make it clear that red ones go faster, and that the orks are correct in their belief that painting the vehicle red is what is making it go faster.


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's a well established aspect of their lore that Meks know how to make things that even the Imperium would barely understand, while the idea of them just being magical cosplayers who believe so hard that the impossible suddenly becomes real because they want it to be has not been established, that I've seen.
That having been said lore can be provided supporting the magic cosplay angle (the Anzion quote you mention) as well as various references to the orks psychic field.

You won't find a quote in any book suggesting that meks are making jet powered paint. And as the first quote above indicates it is the paint - or the orks belief in the paint - which increases the vehicles speed.


The point i'm getting at here is a lot of these quotes just get read at face value as "The Red paint / their belief is what is making them faster", which is taking them without any semblance of nuance regarding what's actually being said. Orks definitely believe that Red is faster and their Red vehicles do tend to be faster, but correlation and causation are not the same. That first quote does not say their belief causes red vehicles to be faster, It simply says they have that belief, and that their red vehicles do tend to be faster, yet things like that get used to support "they think red is faster so it's faster" - there is no connecting aspect to those two parts of the quote, linking the two in that way where that belief causes the following statement is going outside what it actually says about it.

There are plenty of mentions of the Orks psychic field, yet none that i've seen beyond in-universe speculation/sources suggest their belief itself is what causes an effect on things. Ones like that other quote given can be inferred as it not being a case of their beliefs being made true simply because they believe it.


That Anzion quote is an in-universe theory from a Magos who may or may not be reliable, not something out-of-universe that shows to us that's actually the case.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 14:29:55


 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

Well I think the out of universe reason 'red ones go faster' is the old urban legend from the UK that red cars get in more crashes and are more expensive to insure.
I remember hearing it in the 90s so I bet it was going around in the 80s too!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mentlegen324 wrote:
That first quote does not say their belief causes red vehicles to be faster, It simply says they have that belief, and that their red vehicles do tend to be faster, yet things like that get used to support "they think red is faster so it's faster"
The quote states that the orks are correct in believing that a ork vehicle painted red will go faster than one not painted red.

Not that they paint their fastest vehicles red, or that red ork vehicles have coincidentally been found to be faster. It states that "red paint = +speed"

So either the paint is technologically pushing the vehicle along - but no evidence for that at all
Or some other entity likes red and is pushing the vehicle along - but no evidence for that at all

Or the tech priests theory has some validity - it may be thin but it's there.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





A.T. wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
That first quote does not say their belief causes red vehicles to be faster, It simply says they have that belief, and that their red vehicles do tend to be faster, yet things like that get used to support "they think red is faster so it's faster"
The quote states that the orks are correct in believing that a ork vehicle painted red will go faster than one not painted red.

Not that they paint their fastest vehicles red, or that red ork vehicles have coincidentally been found to be faster. It states that "red paint = +speed"

So either the paint is technologically pushing the vehicle along - but no evidence for that at all
Or some other entity likes red and is pushing the vehicle along - but no evidence for that at all

Or the tech priests theory has some validity - it may be thin but it's there.


i am not questioning the part that their red vehicles are, for some reason, faster than one not painted red. It's the idea that it's their belief that Red vehicles are faster that causes Red vehicles to be faster. The quote does not indicate that their belief is the reason it happens, simply that for some reason, their belief is valid - yet things like that get used as evidence of the specific "They believe it, so it's then true" idea when that is not what the quote says.

The Orks are a weapon created by the Old Ones who make use of the Warp and have an in-built technological prowess. The Gestalt field definitely does have some effects, like helping them determine who's in charge. It may very well be what causes those Red vehicles to be faster...but even in that case it does not then automatically extend to it being because the Orks think that Red vehicles are faster then they are faster.

What I'm trying to say is that I've not seen reason to take this wholr thing in an interpretation of specifically "The gestalt field makes Red Vehicles faster, because the Orks think Red is faster" (What they think then becomes true) instead of "Red being faster is an inbuilt part of the Gestalt field, and therefore it's part of Ork culture" (Those beliefs are part of ork society as a result of their creation/the field, in the same way the Mek's knowledge of technology and other oddboyz are something built in).
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

All you need to know is that "da red wunz go faster" - I honestly don't think there is any greater depth to it than that!

Almost certainly based on when the game was being made and a certain real-life sports car being a certain colour, and the Ork faction being a fun choice for people who took the game less seriously (in an era which was a lot less serious).

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 Pacific wrote:

Almost certainly based on when the game was being made and a certain real-life sports car being a certain colour, and the Ork faction being a fun choice for people who took the game less seriously (in an era which was a lot less serious).


Isn't this the only way to take the game????? And the Orks????
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Tell that to competitives.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Hah yes that's true.

I'm out of the loop now re. power levels of factions (and certainly that's a lot more of a thing now in the modern game) but from memory you absolutely didn't play Orks if you wanted to win first or second edition. Even the very first scenario in the Rogue Trader rulebook The Battle at the Farm, the Orks are totally outgunned by the marines (tried a few times and could never win with the Orks so you end up having to cut down Marine numbers).

Definitely think they appealed more to players that laughed at watching their own guns self destruct or characterful special rules that used large randomisation tables. I guess as the Orks have changed in the background, so to has their usage in games, and I'm sure probably the army themselves now attracts a different type of player.

Sorry for diverging from the OP though going off on one then... !

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I believe the original was based off of a buggy race between two meks, and the red buggy won. The orks, logically, decided that this was because it was red, so the belief that "red wuns go fasta" was born.

I'm a firm believer in the "psychic lubricant" style of Ork belief - they can't make a stick into a shoota just by believing it, but if they believe that their gun will work because it's always worked, that can let the gun continue working to the point where it would ordinarily have stopped. This is why ork weapons often (but not always) don't work when they are picked up my imperials after a battle - the psychic lubricant is gone.

This, however, opens a bigger question - is it the Orks belief that red ones go faster that makes the Blood Angels vehicles all faster than the other chapters?

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






As all orks know that painting a vehicle red makes it go faster, any mek who wants his latest creation to be extra fast will obviously paint it red.

So all that fastest trukks are red...







   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 some bloke wrote:
This, however, opens a bigger question - is it the Orks belief that red ones go faster that makes the Blood Angels vehicles all faster than the other chapters?
The Blood Angels rhinos go just as fast when painted black - if it was ork power that would make them 'arder, not faster.

According to the old codex the Blood Angels found an advanced* predator STC in an archaeotech vault during the great crusade, and decided to horde it and keep it from the mechanicus and other chapters. It had more advanced weapons, better armour and manoeverability, and much more speed - and the Blood Angels techpriests reverse engineered the engine and fitted it to their other rhino variants.

(*while advanced it was still fundamentally a mk2 chassis. The mk3 was a later model used only by the sororitas after the astartes rejected it due to the larger internal compartment, periscopes, and powered forward turret increasing the vehicles profile)

[/randomloredump]
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 some bloke wrote:
I believe the original was based off of a buggy race between two meks, and the red buggy won. The orks, logically, decided that this was because it was red, so the belief that "red wuns go fasta" was born.

I'm a firm believer in the "psychic lubricant" style of Ork belief - they can't make a stick into a shoota just by believing it, but if they believe that their gun will work because it's always worked, that can let the gun continue working to the point where it would ordinarily have stopped. This is why ork weapons often (but not always) don't work when they are picked up my imperials after a battle - the psychic lubricant is gone.

This, however, opens a bigger question - is it the Orks belief that red ones go faster that makes the Blood Angels vehicles all faster than the other chapters?


I've not seen that first one before, a quote would be helpful.

I've still yet to see any supportive evidence for the idea of their belief having any actual effect, even with the "psychic lubricant idea" - what is there as evidence it is specifically them believing that causes an effect, rather than them believing it because it's just an in-built aspect of the field in the same way the other aspects of it and the Orks are? All the quotes I've seen don't suggest it's what they think that decides what happens, just that for some reason their beliefs are valid.

The field is the cause of their beliefs, the Orks aren't changing reality just by deciding "Red is faster". Red is just faster with them due to the field, so it's therefore part of Ork culture.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/07 20:06:59


 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I think you are giving this way, way more thought than the originators of the line Mentlegen324..

How does psychic lubricant work and is it something produced by Motul??

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 Pacific wrote:
I think you are giving this way, way more thought than the originators of the line Mentlegen324..

How does psychic lubricant work and is it something produced by Motul??


Mowtull is for da 'umies

da orks use "Zarbagz original" Squig n grotz blend or Mekboys Own 100% Grot
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Pacific wrote:
I think you are giving this way, way more thought than the originators of the line Mentlegen324..

How does psychic lubricant work and is it something produced by Motul??


I don't see how. None of the lines I've read (especially not the out-of-universe stuff) say that their belief causes anything unless it's Imperial Speculation, all the lines from the Codex and such simply that their beliefs are for some reason valid. If the line of thought to this of the originators was intended as a "They believe it, so then it happens because they believe it", then surely there would be actual evidence of that being the case rather than fans deciding that something those quotes don't actually say must be what happens, which is why I'm asking for quotes to support that idea.

The idea that it's their belief causing the effects in the first place has not been talked about that i've seen. Like I said, correlation =/= causation, yet it seems that people think that it is.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/07 22:42:16


 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Its not a correlation=/= causation argument.

Its you not accepting that when the text says 'what they believe is correct,' that it means what it says.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/07 23:49:21


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

I have to believe that red ones go faster is a case of confirmation bias. Orks often observe that the red vehicles are faster, so they paint their fast vehicles red. Also, given that no two Ork vehicles are identical, Meks get excited when they are sure a vehicle will be faster than normal and paint those vehicles red. And if they are faster, that proves that red ones go faster.

But what if a different color one go faster than a red one? Paint it red so it goes even faster! Or soup up the red one so it goes faster than the other one.

Regardless, until GW says it is being red the makes a vehicle faster, it is a matter of Ork Kulture not physics that makes them go faster. After all, you are more likely to get a speeding ticket in a red car because they go faster!
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





OKC, OK USA

Voss wrote:
Its not a correlation=/= causation argument.

Its you not accepting that when the text says 'what they believe is correct,' that it means what it says.


This. You're looking for something that isn't there because GW doesn't care nor haven't put out what you're looking for. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/07 23:59:36


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 alextroy wrote:


Regardless, until GW says it is being red the makes a vehicle faster, it is a matter of Ork Kulture not physics that makes them go faster.

Done:
4th edition ork codex - page 93.
"Orks believe that a vehicle that has been painted red can outstrip a similar vehicle that isn't. As odd as it may seem, they are quite right"



If people want to think this is stupid and reality doesn't work that way; then yes. You're quite right- our reality doesn't work that way. 40k reality, on the other hand...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/08 00:02:34


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Hmm, thinking back to the novel "Evil sunz rising" there is a scene where a variety of meks from different clans are talking. Discussing their favoured engine types for stompas, wagons and more. Some preferred steam, some squig oil others reactors. Ork fluff in particular is tricky to represent in game/models as it is so incredible adhoc. No STCs or mass produced parts for Meks. They literally wander around a scrapyard and gather the gubbinz needed to make a machine.

Perhaps it's simply a case of various factors aligning. A mek who favours making fast vehicles will often sell it to Orks who tend to paint things red. And eventually association makes myths such as "Red Wunz go Fasta" and because orks are as straightforward as a shoota is loud the myth becomes fact as far as they're concerned.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Its like having racing stripes. The laws of the universe mean that it has to go faster cos its got stripes. But for Orks it's the colour red. It's very simple.
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Gert wrote:
Its like having racing stripes. The laws of the universe mean that it has to go faster cos its got stripes. But for Orks it's the colour red. It's very simple.


And, in much lighter times, the original writer of the 'red wunz go faster' had been looking at a magazine at lunchtime with a picture of a certain sportscar in it, which is synonymous with the colour red, and thought it would be a good bit of fun/satire. And goes with the 'go faster stripes', which Gert has mentioned here (I know this joke exists generally in the motoring world and I think is something I have read in Ork lore also?)

Think that is where the lore begins and ends, and if you're going any further than that, it's arguing about how many angels you can fit onto the end of a pin, and isn't anything the writer had even thought about unfortunately.


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Voss wrote:
Its not a correlation=/= causation argument.

Its you not accepting that when the text says 'what they believe is correct,' that it means what it says.


I find that quite absurd to say, because what I am saying is what the text tells us. I did not claim what they believe isn't correct, but that it does not say their belief is what makes red faster.

"Orks believe that a vehicle that has been painted red can outstrip a similar vehicle that isn't.


This part of the quote is saying that Orks have a belief that Red vehicles are faster than a non-red Vehicle.

As odd as it may seem, they are quite right"


This part says that their belief is justified - a red vehicle is faster than a non-red vehicle.

Please tell me, other than both being in the same line (correlation), which part of that quote do you think tells us the red vehicle is faster because they have that belief (causation)?

Nowhere in that quote does it say that their belief is what's responsible for red being faster. Just Orks think Red is faster. And for some reason red is faster.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 12:57:52


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: