UK & EU Politics Thread

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**A Town Called Malus**

CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Well of course if you read papers like the independent you can find doom and gloom. Although I'd recommend never reading the independent, there are better papers of all political bents.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-u-k-is-doingjust-fine-thanks-1521819089

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-uk-is-doing-just-fine-thanks/ar-BBKKYrD?ocid=spartanntp
(same article but shouldn't need a subscription)

So, in response to an article pointing out the still unsolved issues which will take effect after we leave (and after the transition period), your response is articles which say it is okay now?

**Kilkrazy**

Another Brexy Bonus!

UK opposes Brexit threat to role in EU's Galileo scheme

**tneva82**

CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Well of course if you read papers like the independent you can find doom and gloom. Although I'd recommend never reading the independent, there are better papers of all political bents.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-u-k-is-doingjust-fine-thanks-1521819089

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-uk-is-doing-just-fine-thanks/ar-BBKKYrD?ocid=spartanntp
(same article but shouldn't need a subscription)

Conveniently forgetting brexit hasn't happened yet. You are still part of eu. Article is more of pro-remain. See how well uk is doing as eu member? See what uk is going to lose!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:
Another Brexy Bonus!

UK opposes Brexit threat to role in EU's Galileo scheme

One phrase describes this. Obvious.

**AdmiralHalsey**

I'm still amazed anyone considers MSN.com a serious source of real news...

**Kilkrazy**

The news on MSN.com and the WSJ may be factually correct, but the interpretation could be wrong. It's an opinion piece after all.

The piece I reported from The Independent was not. It was a factual report of comments made by the UK car industry body.

**AlmightyWalrus**

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I'm still amazed anyone considers MSN.com a serious source of real news...

In fairness MSN was linked because it was the same article as the WSJ one except without the paywall.

**Darkjim**

Regards how fine the UK will do under Brexit (as oppose to now), here (in case anyone missed it), in Section 23, are the governments own figures at how fine the various regions will be -

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/Exiting-the-European-Union/17-19/Cross-Whitehall-briefing/EU-Exit-Analysis-Cross-Whitehall-Briefing.pdf

My region, given current likely Brexit outcomes, can probably expect a 10% hit, which means higher council tax and poorer services, generally for those that need those services most. Not really that fine at all.

**Whirlwind**

notprop wrote:

UK being governed by Brits, purely in the best interest of UK population/trade and having complete control of its own territorial waters and not paying for the privilege would be a clear and obvious one but we are treading over old ground aren’t we?

You would then support another referendum (and continued ones) then? If you support 'Brits' making the decisions then that would include continued referendums on the issue because then that is the 'Brits' deciding to partake in their right to determine whether some laws are delegated to the EU or not. You can't have your cake and eat it both opposing another British vote but then supporting that 'Brits' should make the decision (unless of course what you really mean by 'Brits' is those that agree with me and the rest can take a hike?)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

A Town Called Malus wrote:
CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Well of course if you read papers like the independent you can find doom and gloom. Although I'd recommend never reading the independent, there are better papers of all political bents.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-u-k-is-doingjust-fine-thanks-1521819089

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-uk-is-doing-just-fine-thanks/ar-BBKKYrD?ocid=spartanntp
(same article but shouldn't need a subscription)

So, in response to an article pointing out the still unsolved issues which will take effect after we leave (and after the transition period), your response is articles which say it is okay now?

What there articles fail to point out is that we are one of, if not the worst performing countries in terms of growth. Global growth is stronger than expected therefore it is no surprise that we are being dragged along with it. However relatively we are performing worse so on a global relative proportion we are doing worse. If you take out the impact of global growth then the predictions are likely not to be far wrong. The real issue is if this continues because when the next global recession arrives then we will still be trying to recover from the last one and the Wrexit idiocy and being worse off than others as well.

**Howard A Treesong**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43568533

Thankfully they’ve halted the release of this serial rapist. Let him rot inside. I can’t see any justification to let him out whatsoever. 10 years isn’t good enough for the crimes he was convicted of, let alone the hundreds of others unprosecuted.

**AdmiralHalsey**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43568533

Thankfully they’ve halted the release of this serial rapist. Let him rot inside. I can’t see any justification to let him out whatsoever. 10 years isn’t good enough for the crimes he was convicted of, let alone the hundreds of others unprosecuted.

And what aspect of British politics are you refering to, here?

**Kilkrazy**

It was an extraordinary decision by the parole board.

**Mr Morden**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43568533

Thankfully they’ve halted the release of this serial rapist. Let him rot inside. I can’t see any justification to let him out whatsoever. 10 years isn’t good enough for the crimes he was convicted of, let alone the hundreds of others unprosecuted.

Agreed - the only bad thng is we have to pay for his keep.

**reds8n**

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/foreigners-to-net-uk-fish-after-brexit-hpf6njhvt

Foreigners to net UK fish after Brexit
Overseas firms have already bought much of Britain’s quota and will keep it after we quit the EU

Britain’s fish will still belong to Europe after Brexit — because Spain, Holland and Iceland have bought up nearly 90% of the entire fishing quota of Wales and more than half the quota assigned to England.

Foreign owners of the fishing rights have also set up UK businesses to hold the quota, making meaningful change unlikely after the country leaves the EU.

The revelation is in fishery statistics from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), run by Michael Gove. The environment secretary’s civil servants were compiling the data at the same time as he was claiming that leaving Europe would let Britain “take back control” of its seas.

The admission follows last week’s transition deal, which will keep the UK in the common fisheries policy for 21 months after departure from the EU. The agreement infuriated many Conservatives, especially the party’s 13 Scottish MPs.

This year foreign owners will land much of Britain’s quota of species such as cod, haddock and whiting in their home countries. It will not touch UK shores or benefit its processing industries.

Defra’s data reveals that Spanish firms have bought permanent control of 88% of the fish quota for Wales, including whiting, hake, pollock and sole.

The quota is used mainly by one vessel, the Armaven Uno, belonging to Armaven (UK), a company whose owners live in Spain. This weekend the 104ft vessel was heading back to the Irish Sea after apparently dropping off a cargo of fish and refuelling in Vigo, Spain.

“Ministers are promising fishers more quota after Brexit,” said Jim Pettipher of the Coastal Producer Organisation, which represents the owners of smaller boats. “But Defra has let fishermen sell most of our quota to foreign firms. The problem is bad management. Brexit won’t change that.”

Under the quota system European waters are divided into sectors with scientists advising on how many tons of each species can be caught per sector without harming long-term viability. The tonnages are then subdivided into quotas that are awarded to each country, based on past catches. Governments distribute the quotas to those who catch the fish. However, unlike France and Ireland, Defra lets fishers sell quotas. This is why much of the English and Welsh quotas is in foreign hands. Scotland has reduced such problems by restricting sales.

A spokesman for Lesley Griffiths, the Welsh environment secretary, said: “Welsh vessel owners — as did Scottish and English — have legitimately sold their boats and quota allocations to UK companies with owners in other EU states.”

Such transactions highlight a key flaw in Gove’s pledge to take back the fishing quota from the EU and give it to UK fishers. Any quota could be sold to foreign-owned firms.

Much of England’s quota has already gone that way. Spanish vessels now control most of the quota from the Bristol Channel to the Scottish border, including vessels operating from the Lancashire port of Fleetwood such as the O Genita and Coyo Tercero, owned by the Vidal family of La Coruña.

On the east coast, Dutch and Icelandic fishing companies dominate. They have created a complex web of firms to own and exploit UK fishing quotas. One ship, the Cornelis Vrolijk, operating from Hull, owns a fifth of England’s entire quota.

The ship belongs to the North Atlantic Fishing Company based in Caterham, Surrey, but that firm, which made more than £5.5m profit in 2016, is Dutch and the vessel lands its 35,000 tons of annual catches in Holland.

Alarm bells rang over foreign companies buying up British quotas five years ago, when Defra’s first register of quota holdings showed how a third of the UK’s fish was being landed overseas.

Defra pledged a review but last week admitted nothing was done; it promised “another review”. A spokeswoman said: “Leaving the EU gives the opportunity to design a new domestic fishing policy.”

Thomas Appleby, a law lecturer at the University of the West of England, said: “England and Wales have mismanaged their fishing quota and Brexit will do nothing to put it right.”

..shocking to consider that Gove might not have been entirely honest

**AdmiralHalsey**

Another Brexy bonus?

**Mr. Burning**

Its always best to start from the position that Gove is a liar.

He's a lying sack of gak.

**reds8n**

with regards to the satellite story :

https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017039112654848

..once again it's like one's actions and choices have consequences.

.. who knew !

**Kilkrazy**

Mr. Burning wrote:
Its always best to start from the position that Gove is a liar.

He's a lying sack of gak.

The awful thing is that Gove is one of the best of the current bunch of Tory front benchers. He's certainly the best of the Brexiteers, though to be fair there aren't very many Brexiteers in the front bench. They prefer to operate from behind the scenery.

**Future War Cultist**

What possessed them to sell off their fishing quotas?

How long do these quotas last? Is this for the two year transitional period?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Future War Cultist wrote:
What possessed them to sell off their fishing quotas?

How long do these quotas last? Is this for the two year transitional period?

Short term greed.

**AdmiralHalsey**

Future War Cultist wrote:
What possessed them to sell off their fishing quotas?

How long do these quotas last? Is this for the two year transitional period?

"Defra’s data reveals that Spanish firms have bought permanent control of 88% of the fish quota for Wales, including whiting, hake, pollock and sole. "

I'd be very surprised if 'Permanent' meant 'Two Years.'

**Future War Cultist**

Here’s another question, how would remaining in the eu have helped with that? If they own it they own it right?

What are the options? Buy them back?

**AdmiralHalsey**

Future War Cultist wrote:
Here’s another question, how would remaining in the eu have helped with that? If they own it they own it right?

What are the options? Buy them back?

The same options we have with the Gas & Electric & Water companies, of course.
Oh, and the Post Office.

**reds8n**

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/press-releases/european-court-slams-uk-claims-of-transparent-and-objective-distribution-of-fishing-quota/

curse that busybody EU and them.. saying the UK govt has messed up its own fishing policy.

We sure will be better off without them trying to ..err... ensure that the quotas will be handed out more fairly..

..if only we'd had, say, MEPs on the fisheries boards and the like ..

oh hang on..

**Future War Cultist**

I bet that’ll cost us. fething tories selling off everything of value.

The satellite is pissing me off too. They can lock us out of it but I bet they won’t be returning the money we put towards it. Funny how it doesn’t work in reverse. Of course, that would have required a pm with a spine. Haven’t had one of those in nearly 30 years.

**AdmiralHalsey**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I bet that’ll cost us. fething tories selling off everything of value.

The satellite is pissing me off too. They can lock us out of it but I bet they won’t be returning the money we put towards it. Funny how it doesn’t work in reverse. Of course, that would have required a pm with a spine. Haven’t had one of those in nearly 30 years.

Whatever you might say about Baroness Thatcher, she most certainly had a spine.

**Avatar 720**

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Future War Cultist wrote:
I bet that’ll cost us. fething tories selling off everything of value.

The satellite is pissing me off too. They can lock us out of it but I bet they won’t be returning the money we put towards it. Funny how it doesn’t work in reverse. Of course, that would have required a pm with a spine. Haven’t had one of those in nearly 30 years.

Whatever you might say about Baroness Thatcher, she most certainly had a spine.

Hence, I believe, the "nearly 30 years" comment, considering she was booted out 28 years ago.

**Future War Cultist**

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Whatever you might say about Baroness Thatcher, she most certainly had a spine.

It’s about the only compliment I can give her.

**tneva82**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I bet that’ll cost us. fething tories selling off everything of value.

The satellite is pissing me off too. They can lock us out of it but I bet they won’t be returning the money we put towards it. Funny how it doesn’t work in reverse. Of course, that would have required a pm with a spine. Haven’t had one of those in nearly 30 years.

Well. You are expecting to get military security related access when you aren't part of us? It's us vs you. For EU UK is now any other random country. Internal security requires not giving access willy nilly to not involved countries. If you want access to it you need to negotiate deal.

It's like if you want to benefit from EU you need to be member of it. Not just cherry pick benefits just because you are UK.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Future War Cultist wrote:
Here’s another question, how would remaining in the eu have helped with that?

It wouldn't, but it wasn't Remain that pushed the idea of reclaiming control of British fishing waters as a selling-point.

**BaronIveagh**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Brexit is so far advanced, and the EU has been so cheesed off by Britain, that Brexit is set in stone.

Yes, but that Stone says:

United Kingdom
1603-2018
Requiescat in pace

As opposed to the old one that said

'Whoso pulleth out this sword of this stone and anvil is rightwise king, born of all England."