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 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

caladancid wrote:
There are no whales for this. When this fact sinks in, prepare for the insanity of massive in app purchases for all the things.

Eh, just you wait. If they're smart, they'll find a way. People buy their limited edition codex books with different covers and free 30 cent trinkets. They know their low-impulse control audience.

Seems like you two are agreeing with extra steps.

Right now, people cannot be whales because there is nothing to purchase for Warhammer+ beyond the initial subscription.

But you can bet GW is going to change that real fast, and then we'll see people lining up for that digital plastic crack.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.

Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):

First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.

Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...

The other pictures towards the end of that article look much better, although it's not really possible to see all the details with the shots they used.

They probably shouldn't have led off with a plain grey board and sand, but we all know their marketing folks aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Seems like their terrain artist did good work on it though.

 Overread wrote:

caladancid wrote:And then we will have people like Overread telling us what a great deal that is, after telling us what a great it was when it was free!! Can't wait!

Wait go back to when GW was giving promotional models and animations away for free? Or back access to White Dwarf?
Sure battlereports and painting tutorials were free in the past, app access has been hit and miss (The AoS one was free, the 40K one was paid). Free is good, but that doesn't mean that Warhammer + can't offer good value for money. Perhaps not on day one and perhaps for some they'll just subscribe for a month - drop it and then subscribe again once every few months for a few videos they want to see or such. GW clearly wants you to stay subscribed, but you'll like as not totally be able to drop in and out.
Yes you won't get the same bonuses - I suspect most vouchers will be linked ot subscription times and the models are tied to a full 12 month period.

My read is: he's saying you'll be ready in the bullpen to defend whatever in-app purchases GW institutes once they decide it's time to turn on the Warhammer+ revenue hose.

After a short read of your comments in this thread, that seems like a fair and valid assumption to make.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Feels like the last 6 pages of argument could have been avoided if the article had simply stated something like "This battle report features a conflict between Guilliman and Mortarion, who faced off in climactic battle in the capital city of Iax, an Imperial agri-world."

People going after each other is like half the fun of the Internet though.

*Insert Godzilla meme* "Let them fight."

Tavis75 wrote:

hypnoticeris wrote:
I was looking forwards to having access to some vintage codexes, but for now the catalogue is not great.

I'm guessing the modern stuff is easy to do because it has been designed to be released digitally, so they can basically just stick it on the system. Older stuff is likely to need conversion and updating, or even manual scanning I guess, so maybe not worth the effort from GWs point of view, though I would like to see it appear!

Old-school issues of White Dwarf would be awesome. Would be nice to look back at the time when it still felt like wargaming with your buddies on the local table and not the heavily corporate stuff we see these days.

 Gert wrote:
Anyone suggesting that GW will attempt to take down YT BatRep channels isn't using their brain.
These channels are the first port of call for a lot of YT content for wargaming and GW has done a collaboration of sorts with MWG in the past. YT BatReps aren't going anywhere.

Fan animations were the gateway for another kind of content on YouTube, and we know what happened there.

 Albertorius wrote:

 phandaal wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Anyone suggesting that GW will attempt to take down YT BatRep channels isn't using their brain.
These channels are the first port of call for a lot of YT content for wargaming and GW has done a collaboration of sorts with MWG in the past. YT BatReps aren't going anywhere.

Fan animations were the gateway for another kind of content on YouTube, and we know what happened there.

Yeah, I guess it's more looking for patterns... IIRC, the takedown notices for animations were for the ones that were monetized, yes? How many of those batrep channels are also monetized?

Not sure which have commercials - using YouTube premium or whatever it's called so they don't show up for me.

All the channels have ways to give them money though.

Given that GW's fan animation shutdown seems to have been intended to funnel people into Warhammer+ animations, it's not unreasonable that GW would look at the same method to attempt to move people into their other types of Warhammer+ content.

As for whether they're within their rights to do so - the unfortunate truth is that YouTube has a "shoot first, question later" approach to channel takedowns.

 Gert wrote:
For those saying GW will go after BatRep channels, has 343 gone after Halo Let's Play channels? What about all the channels that play CoD, does Activision go after them?
No. Because its free advertising. There are far more BatRep channels than animation channels and on top of that the BatRep channels use GW products 90% of the time, with terrain or boards/mats being the biggest 3rd party products. BatRep channels aren't using the IP, they're using the product.

Don't point at other studios for examples of what Games Workshop will and won't do, because (here's a shocker) Games Workshop isn't those studios.

We don't know what Games Workshop is going to do. We can comment on what they have done, however, and what they have done is take down a portion of the fan-created content on YouTube right before they launched their own service to replace that content.

We can also comment on what YouTube does in terms of video takedown requests - namely, YouTube errs on the side of taking the video down and then figures out who was right later.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


There’s a world of difference between showing off their game, and using their IP to create something else.

That would be an opinion, yeah?

To be clear: not saying Games Workshop is going to go after battle reports. We don't know what they're going to do either way.

We can absolutely say that Games Workshop has taken down content while they were in the midst of shifting said content into their new subscription service.

Whether it's legal or supported by Intellectual Property rights or any of that is irrelevant. None of the recent content creator takedowns made it to court. Games Workshop got what they wanted simply by claiming they could.

Taking all of that into consideration, it isn't crazy to point out that Games Workshop could use the same tactic to attempt to shift all battle report viewers onto their own service as well. In that case, it would be similarly pointless to argue over whether or not the law supports it unless someone actually decided to go to court against Games Workshop.

 Gert wrote:


Lots of emotional stuff, then this:

Crazy? No, there's a distinct line where insanity comes into play. Wrong and pointless fearmongering purely to fan the flames of GW hatred? Yes, absolutely.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that anyone should hate Games Workshop for what they are doing.

Relax yourself. Everything's gonna be alright. Games Workshop isn't going to get hurt because people on the internet are wondering if GW will decide that all batreps should be on Warhammer+.

Also have to ask, how is it fearmongering to suggest that content might move onto Warhammer+? Is content being on Warhammer+ somehow worse than that same content being on YouTube? As far as I know, Astartes didn't get any worse after the creator shifted it onto the Warhammer Community site.

 frankelee wrote:
Point of order, the IP laws which allow GW to remove animations made with their IP has no provisions protecting them from battle reports, and would not allow them to take down battle report videos.

To suggest that their lawyers would not point this out and recommend against trying to do so/even refusing to personally draft the cease and desist orders is naive.

When did GW's lawyers share this opinion with you?

Yes, when dealing with Youtube you can put in unlawful DMCA claims, and hope it never gets to court. They could hire professional killers to eliminate their competitors and hope it never gets to court too, if that's your standard. As we can see from the failed boycott petitions, most adults aren't buying that standard.

That is no one's standard. Be better.

 Gert wrote:

 phandaal wrote:

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that anyone should hate Games Workshop for what they are doing.

Relax yourself. Everything's gonna be alright. Games Workshop isn't going to get hurt because people on the internet are wondering if GW will decide that all batreps should be on Warhammer+.

Very cool of you to reduce my arguments to "emotional stuff", very mature of you

Well, yeah. Lots of emotional words like spew, bile, fearmongering, hateful, toxic, fan the flames of hatred. We aren't charging once more unto the breach, we're talking about Games Workshop's new streaming channel.

For what it's worth, the only thing I'm actually worried about is the people who are the faces of GW, the WarCom team and store workers. When Alfabusa decided to put TTS on hiatus, people jumped at the opportunity, despite being asked not to, to send harassing messages to the WarCom accounts and posted in random completely unconnected posts and threads about how evil GW was, perpetuating an untrue narrative simply to be hateful. I've always had the utmost respect for the Twitch Mods and social media team for the bile that gets spewed towards them.
All these "You could be next!" posts help perpetuate that toxic narrative.

There is nothing hateful about suggesting that Games Workshop might follow a path with battle reports that is similar to the path they took with fan animations.

You can disagree that they will do that, of course.

 JB wrote:
Hmm, I was hoping to see a thread about Warhammer + and its pros and cons. This thread seems to be about something else entirely.

Welcome to the party!

deano2099 wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Depends how you define the industry. GW are THE name in wargames, to the point that when I tell anyone outside of wargames that I play wargames a lot of them will say "oh, you mean warhammer right?".

But when it comes to "filming yourself playing a game" then GW "bat reps" are barely significant. We keep saying "bat reps" to make it sound like a special wargaming thing. It's not. It's the exact same thing as someone filming themselves playing Magic, Gloomhaven or Pathfinder.

People aren't saying batreps to make it "sound like a special wargaming thing." People are saying batreps because the specific topic of the current discussion is battle reports and it is quicker to type slang than a whole word.

It is a fair point that people filming themselves playing Warhammer is similar to people filming themselves playing other games though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, we’re seeing scaremongering from those with an axe to grind with GW.

They’ve made no moves to remove other battle reports. At all. Believe me, this is Dakka. If they had, we would know, because again those with an axe to grind would most definitely let us know,

No they haven't, but there's now a precedent for going after fan content which begs the question "but will they go after X next?"

I'm sure if they did, the GW Defence Force would be quick to rally around them as always though and remind us those nasty battle report channels and painters deserved it.

Every company has their Corporate Defense Force. Once they've decided that your words are a threat to the company (whether that is true or not), there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.

CDF finger-wagging about fearmongering aside, the consensus seems to be that if GW did go after battle reports it would be an uphill battle and a bad PR move.

On the flip side: GW has done things like this in the past, and it could still be damaging for batrep channels to deal with YouTube's takedown policy and the cost of defending their business in court.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s more the baseless scaremongering from those with an axe to grind, and the entirely manufactured outrage that results.

As I said in an earlier post, if GW do go after online battle reports in the end? I’ll happily eat my words.

But right now, as it stands? It’s just an attempt to create a scene where there is no scene.

I'll admit that calling people "Defense Force" is unlikely to bring them around to a certain way of thinking.

On the gripping hand, nobody is trying to create a scene. People are simply expressing a concern and offering their reasons for that concern.

It is entirely possible to just have an opinion that GW might do to batreps what they did to fan animation without having an ulterior desire to set Games Workshop's house on fire.

It is also possible to think it is very unlikely that Games Workshop will do that.

Sarouan wrote:

 phandaal wrote:


On the gripping hand, nobody is trying to create a scene. People are simply expressing a concern and offering their reasons for that concern.

It is entirely possible to just have an opinion that GW might do to batreps what they did to fan animation without having an ulterior desire to set Games Workshop's house on fire.

It is also possible to think it is very unlikely that Games Workshop will do that.

Except that "expressed concern" is repeated ad nauseam for quite a while now, since the buzz first about fan animations then about modders. Both topic were shut, by the way, and for good reason : the same people kept repeating the same things over and over, even when proved wrong.

They're just doing it again here. At this point, it's no more a concern. It's indeed trying to make a scene out of nothing, since they don't have anything right at hand to keep pushing their negative view of GW, no matter GW will do.

There certainly are people who just want to say bad things about Games Workshop, but they aren't the majority. You could take people at their word and not invent some kind of howling mob out of disconnected strangers on the Internet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


You’re clearly a kind and generous spirit to ascribe such benign motives to the ones expressing “concern”.

Thank you!

Sarouan wrote:

 phandaal wrote:


There certainly are people who just want to say bad things about Games Workshop, but they aren't the majority. You could take people at their word and not invent some kind of howling mob out of disconnected strangers on the Internet.

Vocal minority on the internet is still vocal, sadly, and this is the case here on Dakkadakka.

This topic was about Warhammer + and here we are to talk about this unbased off topic again. Because of always the same people. Better to ignore them and let the storm pass...until the next one, made up or not.

Once GW releases their next batch of W+ content people will probably talk about that instead. Is it supposed to be a weekly thing?

Sarouan wrote:

 phandaal wrote:
Is it supposed to be a weekly thing?

They said they add new videos every wednesday. I don't know if they intend to do the same with Warhammer Vault.

Thanks. Vault will be interesting to see, especially if they end up adding issues of old-school White Dwarf.

 Plant wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 Plant wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Hobby Night just finished a live stream about the channel and what it actually contains.

Sadly there really isn't enough on WH+ to justify the asking price.

Fortunately you're wrong. There is enough to justify the very low asking price.

If you feel that the content currently provided is bang enough for your buck then go right ahead and sign up, if you haven't already.

Obviously I have already subscribed as I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement regarding the value proposition otherwise.

Saying it is or isn't worth the asking price is totally subjective, regardless of whether or not you have subscribed.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Jammer87 wrote:


Sidenote - are manicures not a thing in GB or maybe they are all shut down due to the pandemic? My one production complaint about the masterclass video is her hands were gnarly. If I'm producing a video guide and long scenes are focused on my hands/fingers I'm making sure that individual has at least clean-looking hands. The guys seem to do this much better than the women at GW. Duncan always had super clean-looking hands, but the first lady and this woman do not.

WHAT?!
Manicures are a thing but its more a case of lack of personal hygiene than anything, by the sounds.
Dont get it either, you would think if your going to film something to be displayed for thousands and representing a big company you would at least go to the effort to wash/clean your hands....right?

For some reason, that area of personal hygiene gets overlooked quite often. People will take care to have their hair neatly cut, their faces etc clean shaven, their clothes clean - and then BOOM, gnarly fingers and long ratty nails with dirt under them.

 Gert wrote:
This is quite rude, team. Focus on the content for god's sake and don't ridicule someone's appearance.

Should have added: there's always someone who takes offense when you bring up the nails thing, as if reminding someone to trim and clean their nails is a grave personal attack. Like clockwork. That particular topic triggers a certain kind of person like no other.

Thank you for your service, Gert.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
So, off topic, but phandaal... Who are they? The way they are posting for someone on such a short post amount means they are certainly someone already on here, or has been in the past and was banned, or maybe wanted a clean slate

Sorry to disappoint - never been a member of this forum before. Long time listener, first time caller.

Anyway, mods don't want any more off topic posts. Keeping the comments on this thread strictly focused on Warhammer+ itself going forward.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
actually manicurists/nail salons etc were one of the places of work & jobs in the UK that were under restriction longer than almost everything else being both close contact, and not essential (pretty much the only things hit worse were night clubs)

so depending on when the videos were made she might not have had access to them

That's a good point. GW may have done the best they could given the restrictions.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
On the whole topic of "value", I just want to point out that currently Warhammer+ is roughly the cost of a fast food meal, or perhaps even a bit less than that, per month. That seems "worth it" to me for a few hours of animation and battle reports, in addition to all the back issues of White Dwarf and whatever else you're getting. Note that this is per month - how many people who frequent this forum buy a McDonald's every weekday for lunch?

If you aren't going to consume the W+ content, but you are going to consume the Mickey D's, then the burger is worth more to you than the W+ content.

Keep in mind, there's also a cost in "time" in addition to the cost in money. One reason why people may not be interested in the content is because it does not seem compelling enough for them to spend time watching W+ when they could be spending that time doing something else.

That seems to be the general theme with people who aren't buying W+. They aren't all that interested in what is being offered for a variety of reasons, so the price being low isn't as relevant.

 Overread wrote:
Rather than, say, sign up for 1 month, see everything then wait 6 months and sign up again for 1 month and just binge the content in blocks.

Binging for a month still might not be a bad deal if someone isn't interested in ordering from the GW website or using either of the mini options.

Buying from your FLGS at a discount or from an ebay store is often significantly less expensive than buying from the GW website, so even with the voucher potential there will probably still be plenty of people choosing to binge later on down the line rather than watch now.

Edit: well, cost and availability from GW's website. Often what's sold out there will be available elsewhere on top of costing less.

 tauist wrote:
Have to say. that BA list feels super unfluffy to me. Sang Guard in a 1000pt force? yawn

Pretty good approximation of what people showing up for pickup games will experience though. At least half of the time you'll go against someone with an OP crusher list. Just saving everyone time by ending the game at the top of round two!

Also, what's with the Planet Bowling Ball boards? Both of these reports now have a bit of terrain at the table edges and that's about it. I thought we were going to be seeing awesome tables?

GW will probably add more terrain over time. They've got their art team putting it together, and that team did in fact mention that they were not given much time to get everything painted up before the first game happened.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?

As Voss mentioned, this comes right from GW's artists. If they went as far as talking about in an official Warhammer Community article they probably don't like it any more than their customers do.

As for why Games Workshop would choose to do things this way, the only people who really know are the people in charge there. Doubt it's because of budgetary constraints though. If it were, they'd at least be able to make boards on par with what you see on most YouTube batrep channels.

My own opinion is that Games Workshop is being hard carried by their fantastic artists and sculptors creating models that so many people want to buy. GW turns such a high profit on these things that it provides a lot of room for doofuses to skate by until they have to do something customer-facing. Then you get things like artists being given 12 days to produce terrain for what is supposed to be GW's flagship streaming service.

 Geifer wrote:

In the past there have been instances of GW employees not being told information that would have been useful to them because of GW's insane compartmentalization of information. I could see this as another such example where management was fully aware of what they wanted for the service, but the people who have to put it into practice didn't until very late in the process. This is speculation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.

That is very plausible. The artists seemed apologetic about it in the community update. It is what it is. No doubt they'll produce the best terrain they can in the long run.

 Gert wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


Have you, by chance, read the infrigment assistant thread? Because yes, they totally have, specifically that one example.

That they did later retire it claiming that it was "an error" is kind of immaterial to the point.

No, it isn't immaterial because someone clearly made a mistake. You're applying malice where none exists.
The GW Infringement Team sent MWM an email clarifying that it was indeed and error.

He isn't "applying malice" to anything. He is pointing to an activity that people claimed would not happen, and did in fact happen.

Simple as that.

 Gert wrote:
One mistake means GW is going to destroy every single Warhammer themed YT channel. OK.
As for applying malice, the MWM situation was blown (once again) out of proportion and people are once again blowing the "GW is evil" horn. When the situation was resolved in what seems to be a couple of days, it's a big conspiracy that someone accidently initiated the mass claiming plan too early.
People are so eager to hate the company that they're just making things up to anger themselves further.
GW admitted it was an error and removed the claim. Thats it. There's no grand conspiracy.

People aren't claiming any sort of conspiracy. They're pointing to an example of a thing we said would happen and then did happen.

Error or not, it would not have happened unless Games Workshop was undertaking these types of actions. Just like we said they would.

As for "mass claiming," do you think hiring more people on their infringement team means less action will be taken? Or does hiring more people to do stuff mean that more stuff will be done?