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Again, we’re seeing scaremongering from those with an axe to grind with GW.

They’ve made no moves to remove other battle reports. At all. Believe me, this is Dakka. If they had, we would know, because again those with an axe to grind would most definitely let us know,

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, we’re seeing scaremongering from those with an axe to grind with GW.

They’ve made no moves to remove other battle reports. At all. Believe me, this is Dakka. If they had, we would know, because again those with an axe to grind would most definitely let us know,

No they haven't, but there's now a precedent for going after fan content which begs the question "but will they go after X next?"

I'm sure if they did, the GW Defence Force would be quick to rally around them as always though and remind us those nasty battle report channels and painters deserved it.

Do you not think that given they went after Fan Animations before Warhammer+ launched they might, just might have gone after Battle Reports at the same time?

I get you’re constantly trying to paint GW in the worse possible light, but with no sign whatsoever they’ve any intention of taking down other Battle Reports, this time you’ve got nothing?

I’ll gladly eat my words if I turn out to be wrong of course. But if they were gonna do it, why haven’t they done it thus far?

Bad optics in the short term? Not feeling they have enough Battle report content (two) to justify it yet?

I'm not saying they will - I don't think it's the minority opinion that it would be an incredibly moronic decision, not that it's ever stopped GW in the past - I'm just saying it would not surprise me in the slightest.

So you are in fact complaining about something that hasn’t happened, and likely won’t happen?

Good show.

 Arbitrator wrote:


I'm not a lawyer, but I don't really see what the difference is between a fan-film maker having a Patreon and battle report youtubers having one? Hell, at least the fan films have all been free for public consumption, whilst a few of the bigger batrep channels actually hide half of their reports behind paywalls. The white knight like to shriek that the fanimators were making money off someone else's IP via donations, but isn't that exactly what battle report channels are doing playing with GW's toys?

Pejorative and biased language aside there is very much a difference between a batrep and the animations we've seen taken down. The fundamental difference is using a product for its intended purpose (batrep) and recreating or using trademarked and/or copyrighted material (fan animation). That distinction matters.

Of course GW could try to go after batrep channels. They can try to do anything they want and current IP laws certainly heavily favour companies with lots of money. However, I suspect they'd see a much bigger backlash from creators outside their own sphere of influence because a ruling in a case like that would have implications for boardgames, RPGs, Let's Plays and any number of other channels that demonstrate products. There is some precedent for Let's Plays being taken down but these were almost always to do with the videos playing licenced music from the games where the licence didn't permit it, rather than for playing the game itself. Several developers even include a streaming mode in their video games that removes any of that licenced music.

If they go after Battle Reports, it would be for the reason about using 3rd party bits for terrain, models or gameplay without talking about those in the video drectly

in a simple way, GW has their very strict rules for official events and can argue that battle reports that are not going by those rules or making clear that they are using non-GW stuff are hurting their IP/Trademarks

This is also a reason why they would want to remove them
Not only to get people to WH+ but to prevent people from seeing what is available outside the GW Bubble


Why haven't they done it already?
Don't know, as I also don't know why they waited so long to go after 3D File creators
If it would have been important, they could have already done it 3-4 years ago to make a point and being clear what people can and cannot do

It is just that GW is now more active regarding their IP protection than 3 years ago, for whatever reason, so no one knows what they will do next

 Arbitrator wrote:

Except as you yourself mention, Nintendo did go after Let's Plays for a time. By the same token, if there's a company who would be stupid and petty enough to take aim at batrep channels because they thought it would redirect their audiences towards subscribing to Warhammer+ For Exclusive Warhammer(tm) Battle Reports(tm) it would absolutely be GW. Hell, if there was a fanbase would who go along with it and find a way to justify the decision, it would be Games Workshop's hordes of cultists.

Nintendo were one of the big players in that industry though. GW are very much not, compared to your Asmodees and WotCs. I'm not saying they definitely wouldn't do it - just compared to going after fan films it's a huge flex.

The other reason I think battle reports are safe is because it's hard for them to negatively impact GW. Fan animation and films can be good for the brand, but there's also the more satirical ones that aren't exactly in love with GW. If you're making hours long battle reports using GW models and systems, chances are you love GW stuff and are portraying it in a good way. It'd be hard to make a battle report that reflects negatively on the game, and if you make one of those, you probably won't make another as it's no fun.

I mean, if GW are going to issue takedowns with no legal basis on channels just because they're showing images of their content, I sort of feel like they might go after the professional GW-hating YouTubers first? Before the ones filming themselves enjoying playing with the product? Because those channels use images from GW's website and stuff too, it's always on screen while they explain why it's gak. The legal defense is the same as battle reports: fair use.

That doesn’t follow.

Battle Reports aren’t official events, and no more bound by GW’s official event rules than any tournament which isn’t sponsored by GW.

I really don’t think GW particularly care what’s outside of their bubble. They’re still the biggest fish in the pond, with the widest online reach and customer engagement.

Plus, it’s hard to see that as a justified basis - unless they were specifically sponsoring that show (for instance, if I was sponsored by Sony to poorly play PS4 games, and I slipped in an X-Box game, that would be a problem. But they could nowt against me without that sponsorship. Even then, it would need to be a contract stipulation).

Likewise, WWE can’t go after Wrestling channels also discussing AEW, AJP and Impact in the same show, because there’s no implied exclusivity.

As an independent business or an individual, GW have absolutely no basis to pull content just because their competitors are also shown off. If there was, do you really think they’d leave FLGS alone in that respect?

Depends how you define the industry. GW are THE name in wargames, to the point that when I tell anyone outside of wargames that I play wargames a lot of them will say "oh, you mean warhammer right?".

Here’s an idea, let’s discuss GW going after bat reps when they, you know, go after bat reps.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Depends how you define the industry. GW are THE name in wargames, to the point that when I tell anyone outside of wargames that I play wargames a lot of them will say "oh, you mean warhammer right?".

But when it comes to "filming yourself playing a game" then GW "bat reps" are barely significant. We keep saying "bat reps" to make it sound like a special wargaming thing. It's not. It's the exact same thing as someone filming themselves playing Magic, Gloomhaven or Pathfinder.

MaxT wrote:
Here’s an idea, let’s discuss GW going after bat reps when they, you know, go after bat reps.

Still would like to hear animation that got c&d letter sent. Gw hasn't even changed policy regarding animations for long time.

deano2099 wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Depends how you define the industry. GW are THE name in wargames, to the point that when I tell anyone outside of wargames that I play wargames a lot of them will say "oh, you mean warhammer right?".

But when it comes to "filming yourself playing a game" then GW "bat reps" are barely significant. We keep saying "bat reps" to make it sound like a special wargaming thing. It's not. It's the exact same thing as someone filming themselves playing Magic, Gloomhaven or Pathfinder.

People aren't saying batreps to make it "sound like a special wargaming thing." People are saying batreps because the specific topic of the current discussion is battle reports and it is quicker to type slang than a whole word.

It is a fair point that people filming themselves playing Warhammer is similar to people filming themselves playing other games though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, we’re seeing scaremongering from those with an axe to grind with GW.

They’ve made no moves to remove other battle reports. At all. Believe me, this is Dakka. If they had, we would know, because again those with an axe to grind would most definitely let us know,

No they haven't, but there's now a precedent for going after fan content which begs the question "but will they go after X next?"

I'm sure if they did, the GW Defence Force would be quick to rally around them as always though and remind us those nasty battle report channels and painters deserved it.

Every company has their Corporate Defense Force. Once they've decided that your words are a threat to the company (whether that is true or not), there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.

CDF finger-wagging about fearmongering aside, the consensus seems to be that if GW did go after battle reports it would be an uphill battle and a bad PR move.

On the flip side: GW has done things like this in the past, and it could still be damaging for batrep channels to deal with YouTube's takedown policy and the cost of defending their business in court.

MaxT wrote:
Here’s an idea, let’s discuss GW going after bat reps when they, you know, go after bat reps.

We'd be more likely to discuss WHPlus contents if there was any

It’s more the baseless scaremongering from those with an axe to grind, and the entirely manufactured outrage that results.

As I said in an earlier post, if GW do go after online battle reports in the end? I’ll happily eat my words.

But right now, as it stands? It’s just an attempt to create a scene where there is no scene.

Re: GW targeting batreps, I have to imagine that they would lose that court case and that established legal precedents would apply to it. That would be like EA suing Twitch to stop them from streaming EA published games on the platform, or Activision suing IGN to stop them from publishing reviews of their games, or hell - Disney suing the New York Times to stop them from publishing film reviews. No court would agree to it.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
They literally send review copies of games to channels that do battle reports, including kill team very recently. I don’t think they’d do that if they had an issue with battle reports (considering at least one channel is doing a KT battle report series).

I hate to bring up, you know, GW's history and all, but that doesn't mean anything. I literally got a copy of one of the 40k RPG books in the mail to review the day we got a cease and desist letter demanding we stop showing pictures of their products.

With GW, if you assume logic, reason, or basic competence, you're already failed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
No-one still been able to name animation gw shut down?

Effectively, all of them. According to several of the animators that GW approached, they were given the option to keep animating, but do it on Warhammer+ or cease and desist.

Theres at least one animator who turned down GWs request and was allowed to keep their content online.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, we’re seeing scaremongering from those with an axe to grind with GW.

They’ve made no moves to remove other battle reports. At all. Believe me, this is Dakka. If they had, we would know, because again those with an axe to grind would most definitely let us know,

No they haven't, but there's now a precedent for going after fan content which begs the question "but will they go after X next?"

I'm sure if they did, the GW Defence Force would be quick to rally around them as always though and remind us those nasty battle report channels and painters deserved it.

This post pretty much sums up this entire exchange.

Invent a problem with no evidence except assumptions, speculation and false equivalencies. Then, dismiss half the Dakka community as the “GW Defence Force”.

It’s pretty pathetic really.

"Cease & desist" in that case meant "continue & demonitise". I don't think it is a fair representation to leave that detail out.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, we’re seeing scaremongering from those with an axe to grind with GW.

They’ve made no moves to remove other battle reports. At all. Believe me, this is Dakka. If they had, we would know, because again those with an axe to grind would most definitely let us know,

No they haven't, but there's now a precedent for going after fan content which begs the question "but will they go after X next?"

I'm sure if they did, the GW Defence Force would be quick to rally around them as always though and remind us those nasty battle report channels and painters deserved it.

This post pretty much sums up this entire exchange.

Invent a problem with no evidence except assumptions, speculation and false equivalencies. Then, dismiss half the Dakka community as the “GW Defence Force”.

It’s pretty pathetic really.

There’s also nobody saying that if GW did go after such things it wouldn’t be a Richard Move.

It never occurs to 90% of the hysteria crowd that they live in countries with statutory law, and that made up reasoning like, "If they can do X, then next they can do Y!" so fundamentally misunderstands the legal system that it is not just pointless to do, but leaves you further down the wrong road than you would have been if you just didn't try.

I don't know how it all works in TV court, but in real court, actually no, most lawyers won't do anything, lie about anything, ignore the laws they know will be applicable when they wind up before a judge. Sure, they do make stupid mistakes and overly aggressive mistakes. And thanks to that little, cheap to hire lawyers in small towns beat big, expensive corporate lawyers all the time in court. Despite the false idea that being rich means you just automatically win in front of a judge so common on the internet.

Outsiders should judge this debate on who's been wrong consistently. The outrage mob said the Youtube community would be destroyed. They were wrong. They said battle reports would get C&Ds. They were wrong. They said lore channels would get C&Ds. They were wrong. They said game modders would get shut down. They were wrong. And of course they're consistently wrong, look at how little research they think they need to do to understand the legal system... none! Just making it all up as they go.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s more the baseless scaremongering from those with an axe to grind, and the entirely manufactured outrage that results.

As I said in an earlier post, if GW do go after online battle reports in the end? I’ll happily eat my words.

But right now, as it stands? It’s just an attempt to create a scene where there is no scene.

I'll admit that calling people "Defense Force" is unlikely to bring them around to a certain way of thinking.

On the gripping hand, nobody is trying to create a scene. People are simply expressing a concern and offering their reasons for that concern.

It is entirely possible to just have an opinion that GW might do to batreps what they did to fan animation without having an ulterior desire to set Games Workshop's house on fire.

It is also possible to think it is very unlikely that Games Workshop will do that.

 phandaal wrote:


On the gripping hand, nobody is trying to create a scene. People are simply expressing a concern and offering their reasons for that concern.

It is entirely possible to just have an opinion that GW might do to batreps what they did to fan animation without having an ulterior desire to set Games Workshop's house on fire.

It is also possible to think it is very unlikely that Games Workshop will do that.

Except that "expressed concern" is repeated ad nauseam for quite a while now, since the buzz first about fan animations then about modders. Both topic were shut, by the way, and for good reason : the same people kept repeating the same things over and over, even when proved wrong.

They're just doing it again here. At this point, it's no more a concern. It's indeed trying to make a scene out of nothing, since they don't have anything else right at hand to keep pushing their negative view of GW, no matter GW will do.

Trying to build an outrage out of assumptions is showing that you really have nothing else.

 phandaal wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s more the baseless scaremongering from those with an axe to grind, and the entirely manufactured outrage that results.

As I said in an earlier post, if GW do go after online battle reports in the end? I’ll happily eat my words.

But right now, as it stands? It’s just an attempt to create a scene where there is no scene.

I'll admit that calling people "Defense Force" is unlikely to bring them around to a certain way of thinking.

On the gripping hand, nobody is trying to create a scene. People are simply expressing a concern and offering their reasons for that concern.

It is entirely possible to just have an opinion that GW might do to batreps what they did to fan animation without having an ulterior desire to set Games Workshop's house on fire.

It is also possible to think it is very unlikely that Games Workshop will do that.

You’re clearly a kind and generous spirit to ascribe such benign motives to the ones expressing “concern”.

All I’m seeing is the same small crowd of very vocal people who never let an opportunity pass to try to paint everything GW does, says and releases in the worst light possible. In the absence of any actual facts, these same people will just speculate and invent drama for the sake of drama.

Sarouan wrote:

 phandaal wrote:


On the gripping hand, nobody is trying to create a scene. People are simply expressing a concern and offering their reasons for that concern.

It is entirely possible to just have an opinion that GW might do to batreps what they did to fan animation without having an ulterior desire to set Games Workshop's house on fire.

It is also possible to think it is very unlikely that Games Workshop will do that.

Except that "expressed concern" is repeated ad nauseam for quite a while now, since the buzz first about fan animations then about modders. Both topic were shut, by the way, and for good reason : the same people kept repeating the same things over and over, even when proved wrong.

They're just doing it again here. At this point, it's no more a concern. It's indeed trying to make a scene out of nothing, since they don't have anything right at hand to keep pushing their negative view of GW, no matter GW will do.

There certainly are people who just want to say bad things about Games Workshop, but they aren't the majority. You could take people at their word and not invent some kind of howling mob out of disconnected strangers on the Internet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


You’re clearly a kind and generous spirit to ascribe such benign motives to the ones expressing “concern”.

Thank you!

 phandaal wrote:


There certainly are people who just want to say bad things about Games Workshop, but they aren't the majority. You could take people at their word and not invent some kind of howling mob out of disconnected strangers on the Internet.

Vocal minority on the internet is still vocal, sadly, and this is the case here on Dakkadakka.

This topic was about Warhammer + and here we are to talk about this unbased off topic again. Because of always the same people. Better to ignore them and let the storm pass...until the next one, made up or not.

Sarouan wrote:

 phandaal wrote:


There certainly are people who just want to say bad things about Games Workshop, but they aren't the majority. You could take people at their word and not invent some kind of howling mob out of disconnected strangers on the Internet.

Vocal minority on the internet is still vocal, sadly, and this is the case here on Dakkadakka.

This topic was about Warhammer + and here we are to talk about this unbased off topic again. Because of always the same people. Better to ignore them and let the storm pass...until the next one, made up or not.

Once GW releases their next batch of W+ content people will probably talk about that instead. Is it supposed to be a weekly thing?

 phandaal wrote:
Is it supposed to be a weekly thing?

They said they add new videos every wednesday. I don't know if they intend to do the same with Warhammer Vault.

Sarouan wrote:

 phandaal wrote:
Is it supposed to be a weekly thing?

They said they add new videos every wednesday. I don't know if they intend to do the same with Warhammer Vault.

Thanks. Vault will be interesting to see, especially if they end up adding issues of old-school White Dwarf.

A question for the subscribers what is the overall attitude of Battle reports and painting tuts etc... Is it like "lego everything is awesome" like we have seen on twitch streams?