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Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






How do!

Something slightly different this time, in an attempt to put my library of RT era books to useful use. Normally, I’d chip in on a given thread to divulge some nugget of ancient knowledge I garnered from reading the old books.

This time, I’m wondering if people might have burning questions on the early background. Perhaps you’ve tried to look something up, and found conflicting information, and now you’re all sixes and sevens, wondering what might be true.

Being a predominantly background thread, please do try to stick to background related questions. If this proves a popular thread, I’ll do one for rules and mechanics in general at a future date. And I may do one for other in-universe games and editions.

If you’re like me and you’ve a stack of books and (even betterer) old WD’s, please feel free to chip in answering the questions.

I’ll do my best to quote chapter and verse, so people know I’m not just making stuff up. Unfortunately, as many of the books were compilations of WD articles, I can’t necessarily give a specific date for things, only “So far as I can tell that was first mentioned in *Book A* which has a printing date of *Date*”

Hopefully this will prove an interesting read for folks!

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Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

Howdy!

Dear Grognard, would you please like to tell what depictions and descriptions of slavery there were in the Rogue Trader era? I am familiar with some, but have not read all the Compendia or trawled through all the White Dwarfs.

I would be most grateful if you could, if at all possible, compile all references (and perhaps also imagery) you can think of.

Cheers

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2021/07/01 20:15:17


   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






Well. What a first question!

I’ll light up The Grognard Lighthouse and invite other long time sufferers to chip in, because this will require me to read all my books, which will take time.

Bloody good opening question though!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

Ouch, sorry!

Hm, would you hate me if I asked you to pick out your favourite bonkers, grimdark and silly bits from the background as well while you're about it?

I have a fair number of questions. If you truly plan to reread all the books, would it then be in order to post a list of questions so you can check off points during reread? I first planned to ask them one after another with time in between so as not to seem overwhelming. People have noted a megalomaniac streak in me, so guilty as charged. I've done compilations aplenty over on Chaos Dwarfs Online, so my questions will tend toward the all-encompassing ones. But I could step back if you like, to keep the field open for people with more specific questions.

Your call on how to proceed, sir!

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/01 18:57:49


   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






On the slavery thing, there are three which immediately spring to mind for me to look up.

Actually four, if we count Slaves to Darkness, which is somewhat more metaphorical given it’s willing, rather than enforced.

The actual examples for me to look into?

1. Human Bombs

2. Penal Squads (might be the same as Human Bombs)

3. Gretchin.

Certainly, from my perspective, whilst slavery/indentured servitude is very much and very heavily implied in that era, there’s not a huge amount of explicit examples.

Essentially a lot of (if not all of) Rogue Trader is highly satirical. So things we rightfully wince at these days were covered, without being, well I can’t think of a Dakka safe term for it, but I trust you can fill in this particular blank.

It’s still a really solid question though, and I’ll do my best to answer it in due course!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, and expressly in the vast ridiculousness that is 40K, can you define in-setting Slavery?

Because given they’re forcibly abducted, forcibly mutilated and made more/less than human, a might Astartes or Custodes could be accurately described as a slave.

And worse, I really push the definition, child soldiers.

Please note I am not going to be a Richard here. I’m not about to jump on KNC’s definition or smack KNC’s question in the gob with my own definition.

It’s more that “Rogue Trader era 40K is darker than the darkest thing you can think about and so beyond immoral that morals are more nebulous than a fart a spider does whilst spinning a web”.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 19:27:29


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

Yes, Astartes and Custodes are both slaves and juve soldiers per definition. Imperial Psykers too. There are so many cases of it in the background, and this unflinching running with the most depraved aspects of human history in satirical or ironical spirit is at the core of Warhammer 40'000's soul since its very inception. As it well should be, and later silly sensibilities be darned. This is fiction, and it requires a functioning sense of irony.

Define it as widely or narrowly as you like.

Thanks.

Another question, if you truly are going to re-read it all: What advanced technologies and science fiction phenomena were widely present in Rogue Trader, yet toned down or seemingly dropped altogether in later eras?

Cheers

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/01 19:38:56


   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






One at a time, please


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or if you really want, I can setup the camp bed in my gaming room and you can have a wee holiday at mine!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 19:42:13


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I’m pretty sure there was an index for penal legions provided in white dwarf, it would be cool if you could dig that out with the accompanying fluff.

Thing is the penal legions we’re just vast hordes of people being sent to their death in war so I don’t think there’s much difference between them and the AM.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 19:44:33


 
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






Pretty sure the Penal Legions are in one of the two compendiums.

Well, I’ve got something to do with my weekend at long last!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

I seem to remember Orks with human slaves, not sure if it was in freebootaz?

Penal legions were in the RT book itself right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 19:55:04


 
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






Was actually reading Freebooterz today.

No slaves as such (at least not in a battlefield role), but Mercs for sure.

Blood Axes did have Human Advisors though, but they were still paid.

Off the battlefield? Orks absolutely use slave labour, especially on an industrial world where they force the populace to churn more and more weapons from existing factories.

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Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

Spoiler:
 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
Howdy!

Dear Grognard, would you please like to tell what depictions and descriptions of slavery there were in the Rogue Trader era? I am familiar with some, but have not read all the Compendia or trawled through all the White Dwarfs.

I would be most grateful if you could, if at all possible, compile all references (and perhaps also imagery) you can think of.

Cheers



Hers a start. Slaves used to produce space marine bits, slaves being rounded up and penal legions wearing “slave collars.” First and last from warhammer 40000 compendium and the middle from RT it’s self.
[Thumb - B44A2A8C-318C-441E-B516-1DEDBE767E86.jpeg]

[Thumb - 60403C5F-24AD-473C-97E0-B3C49531FE7A.jpeg]

[Thumb - B09E8711-3840-43C1-BF3B-EC835AD6C77E.jpeg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 23:46:37


 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

From waaargh the ORKS.
[Thumb - 517FEAD1-8590-4724-9EAC-992FDD9C95E1.png]

[Thumb - 2C1FAE64-DD21-4400-B312-BC981223AD48.png]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 23:47:00


 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot






Dear Grognard,

Are there any mentions of Digganobz in Rogue Trader?

Sincerely,
WAAAGH!
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






Not directly, no.

But no later than Freebooterz, Human Mercenaries could be added to a Blood Axe army.

They were described as non-Imperial humans who’d impressed the Orks with their combat skills. So I suppose you could use Digga models, and arm them appropriately from the options given.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Can you dig out the space pirates index? I think it was in WD but who knows when?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm curious, on a different tangent, as to when the psychic resonance of the orks became a thing - when did they start keeping things working just by belief?

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, on a different tangent, as to when the psychic resonance of the orks became a thing - when did they start keeping things working just by belief?

And when did they become a fungus
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






They’ve always been part fungal, right back to Waaaargh The Orks! and possibly earlier.

The lifelong spore shedding and growth cycle is from GorkaMorka. In RT, it was more mysterious with old Orks wandering off to become hermits, and Wildboyz being the result.

The psychic stuff has kind of always been there. Certainly their chanting and fighting has always fed into Weirdboyz. But I think the “stuff works because they think it should” didn’t really hit until 4th Ed, I think? Might’ve been later than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mrFickle wrote:
Can you dig out the space pirates index? I think it was in WD but who knows when?


If I’ve got it, it’ll be in the Companion or Compendium, at a guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/02 10:08:42


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I think the Psychic Trope hit hard in late 3rd, early 4th. Gorkamorka, as relatively unknown as it is, actually did a huge service towards growing modern Ork lore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/04 14:51:02




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






In terms of Orky reproduction, it’s probably important to realise the original “old Ork wanders off, Wildboyz wander back” isn’t mutually exclusive from the Orks Grow In The Soil.

Orks almost certainly don’t really care about their reproduction cycle, because it just sort of happens. The GorkaMorka stuff is clearly from the perspective of Magos Biologis.

So both could be entirely true, indeed the more modern stuff states the most spores are shed at the point of death.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






@Andykp you beat me to it mate. That picture of the slavers is one of my favourite in the book and i'll be using it as the basis for a future modelling project for sure.

Spoiler:


It's in the Logans World section, page 227, and the caption reads:
'Beyond the generally neutral ground of Helsreach every creature is at the mercy of slavers. Slavers raid buses for human slaves which they sell to the Orks'

Many thanks for the quality image, I had been looking for one online without success.

Great thread Doc! I'll be happy to chip in where I can as i've got a large if not complete collection of WD from the era.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/04 16:20:24


I have a blog on the Warhammer Tournaments website:

Taking Pride in Power Armour

My painting and modeling blog:

PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




The Logan's World/Helsreach section in the RT book is interesting, because it was obviously a low-key 'default setting.'

What's weird (and incompatible) about it is that its set in the Eye of Terror, with intermittent contact with the Imperium (and eldar and ork raiders) when the Eye 'blinks' every five-to-ten years, and the Imperium comes in for tribute and tithes.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot






That sounds wild, I'd love to get my hands on a copy of RT sometime since it sounds so interesting to read what the proto-setting was like.
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






I think the Warhammer Citadels carry the reprints. Get a fresh and new copy, which is a faithful reproduction of the original, including S3 Bolters and S4 Bows.

No. Really.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot






Haven't heard about Citadels or reprints so I'll have to keep an eye out. Thanks!
   
Made in gb
Badass "Sister Sin"






Started off as WHW exclusive, later expanded to include both Realm of Chaos books.

Stock came and went at the best of times, so in the current climate who knows! Definitely worth tracking down though.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Pretty sure the Penal Legions are in one of the two compendiums.

Well, I’ve got something to do with my weekend at long last!


I am also recently getting interested in Penal Legions and have just bought Citadel Journal 12 off ebay 'cos it has apparently 7 pages on them by Gavin Tyler. I'll report back when that arrives


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Re: Logan's world. Yeah it's really cool. What I love about it is the interaction between races (it's violent but not Only War) plus a glimpse of non-imperial humans, both of which seem rare in modern fluff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/04 17:10:44


I have a blog on the Warhammer Tournaments website:

Taking Pride in Power Armour

My painting and modeling blog:

PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

 PaddyMick wrote:
@Andykp you beat me to it mate. That picture of the slavers is one of my favourite in the book and i'll be using it as the basis for a future modelling project for sure.

Spoiler:


It's in the Logans World section, page 227, and the caption reads:
'Beyond the generally neutral ground of Helsreach every creature is at the mercy of slavers. Slavers raid buses for human slaves which they sell to the Orks'

Many thanks for the quality image, I had been looking for one online without success.



Mine too and I have also been thinking of a way to make similar, especially since necromunda models play into the slaver vibe brilliantly.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

Excellent help with the slavery question, folks!

Dear Grognard, I'll bring the camping kit! I've got a magazine of questions, but let's take them one at a time.

   
 
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