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Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





England

I seem to remember a mention of Earth (not Terra, I don’t think) being the seat of the Mechanicus.

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I have 2 questions for the RT era background:

1) Are there references to the Old World from WFB in RT? I've read numerous rumours that back in the day, the background was sprinkled with hints and suggestions that the WFB took place on a planet in the 40k universe, perhaps isolated by warp storms, and IIRC there would be an occasional nod to this in WFB, with "futuristic weapons" showing up in the hands of Chaos warriors etc.

2) I'm interested in the evolution of the 2nd and 11th legion. I think in RT the space marines were quite different to the modern version, but were the lost 2nd and 11th introduced in 2nd ed as redacted legions, or were they already "lost" at some point during the RT era?


Thanks!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





WFB was definitely attached to 40K, I was title you could manifest demons with multi meltas etc.

I personally still think that AOS is in the many dimensions of the same universe
   
Made in fi
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






Thanks for posting those two pages about Ork slaves! I'm loving the mental image of a human advisor wearing a "Faux Ork" costume whispering to the ear of a powerful Warboss.

RT era was a much more interesting and nuanced setting than modern 40K IMHO
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

mrFickle wrote:
WFB was definitely attached to 40K, I was title you could manifest demons with multi meltas etc.

I personally still think that AOS is in the many dimensions of the same universe


No definitely, it was never explicitly stated. The 40K weapons rocking up in fantasy were pretty much just or daemons and chaos units. It was just a handy thing they could do because the games systems were near identical.
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

 tauist wrote:
Thanks for posting those two pages about Ork slaves! I'm loving the mental image of a human advisor wearing a "Faux Ork" costume whispering to the ear of a powerful Warboss.

RT era was a much more interesting and nuanced setting than modern 40K IMHO


More stuff in human advisors for you then too. More blood axe that freed slave type.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/10 11:39:53


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






On the topic of slaves, the section about Assassins mentions the example character being sent to deal with an Imperial governor selling his citizens to Ork slavers, he was overthrown, and was the last citizen of that world to be sent as a slave to the Orks.

As for Custodes, there’s no information to say one way or the other. The only information we get is a picture, a couple of sentences saying they’re the Emperors guards and an example statline. There’s not even any rules for their laser spears (I suppose you’d arm them with a power sword and a lasting, rules-wise). All the background has been added in the FW Horus Heresy black books in the last five years.

In RT, Chais wasn’t a thing. Just some warp entities but no overarching powers. That all came later with the Realm of Chaos books. You could have crossovers, but that was just to represent technologically degenerate humans (or Squats, Eldar, Orks, …), not explicitly forces from the WFB world. Which has never had a name, making it a little hard to reference the planet as opposed to the setting as a whole.
   
Made in gb
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

Amazons had 'Bolt Guns' in 2nd ed WHFB - relics of the Old Ones, but aside of the odd 'New Releases' advert in White Dwarf, the only definite link btween WHFB and WH40K is the old WHFRP scenario 'Terror in the Darkness' (also from White Dwarf).
   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz






IIRC, ork runtherd minis used to be sold as “ork slavers”.

All Orks, All Da Zoggin' TIme. 'Cause Da Rest of You Gitz is Just Muckin' About, Waitin' ta Get Krumped.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Andykp wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
WFB was definitely attached to 40K, I was title you could manifest demons with multi meltas etc.

I personally still think that AOS is in the many dimensions of the same universe


No definitely, it was never explicitly stated. The 40K weapons rocking up in fantasy were pretty much just or daemons and chaos units. It was just a handy thing they could do because the games systems were near identical.


Yeah it was never explicitly stated but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t true. That’s how GW love their fluff
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







RT also came with rules for using bows, swords and black powder weapons, so you could certainly field your fantasy models in 40k.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

mrFickle wrote:
Andykp wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
WFB was definitely attached to 40K, I was title you could manifest demons with multi meltas etc.

I personally still think that AOS is in the many dimensions of the same universe


No definitely, it was never explicitly stated. The 40K weapons rocking up in fantasy were pretty much just or daemons and chaos units. It was just a handy thing they could do because the games systems were near identical.


Yeah it was never explicitly stated but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t true. That’s how GW love their fluff


They used to be much better at ambiguous than they are now sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Flinty wrote:
RT also came with rules for using bows, swords and black powder weapons, so you could certainly field your fantasy models in 40k.


Many armies had fantasy models in them, most of chaos and ORKS especially.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/11 11:58:39


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






@Andykp

Thanks for posting that. I assume it's from Waaagh the Orks. I only have the WD with the preview army list, and in that you can choose any character from the SM or IG lists to be your human advisor. I didn't know there was a model, thats super cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Flinty wrote:
RT also came with rules for using bows, swords and black powder weapons, so you could certainly field your fantasy models in 40k.


Yeah that was great. The armies were all fantasy races with the Space pre-fix 'cos the director of GW at the time told Rick Preistly that sci-fi models would never sell, so players better be able to use their fantasy models in the games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/11 17:50:32


I have a blog on the Warhammer Tournaments website:

There Will Always be Chainswords

My painting and modeling blog:

PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






On the WHFB and 40K crossover, I feel that’s demonstrated by one book.

No, not the RoC book which first really fleshed out The Emperor and Traitor Chapters (they weren’t Legions until a while later)

And that’s Warhammer Siege. I’ve got a copy, but I’m currently in Orkney (and fittingly enough, visited Kilbuster Farm, which sadly didn’t grow Orky tanks) so you’ll need to wait until I’m back. Unless of course another Grognard has a copy.

It’s predominantly a WHFB/WHFRP book, but has a section for sieges on medieval/feudal worlds in 40K too. Basically adding special rules and equipment for walkers more than anything, if memory serves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah, the RT book covered primitive weapons.

Probably the most notable carriers of such basic affairs were Ork Wildboyz, and Ogryns (Imperial Ogryn Bone’Eds could have a Ripper gun initially. Further rules allowed for the whole squad to have them, and some BIG frag grenades!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the early books…

Probably my favourite thing about Rogue Trader (which also explains my continued attitude to 40K) is just how rapidly it evolved.

Beginning as it did as a loose conversion of the existing WHFB to a SciFi setting, in a relatively short period of time it under went a lot of refinement.

This is best appreciated by gathering copies of the books, and reading through them in release order. By the time you get to the Battle Manual, it’s pretty much 2nd Ed, particularly in the far neater layout and presentation.

Even the exceptionally short lived Vehicle Manual was a clear precursor to what would become datafax cards. The main difference was the clear targeting overlay being done away with.

One of these days I’ll do a thread explaining and demonstrating the old rules.

But it is not this day. That’s a weekend long labour of love, that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/11 19:40:52


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

 PaddyMick wrote:
@Andykp

Thanks for posting that. I assume it's from Waaagh the Orks. I only have the WD with the preview army list, and in that you can choose any character from the SM or IG lists to be your human advisor. I didn't know there was a model, thats super cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Flinty wrote:
RT also came with rules for using bows, swords and black powder weapons, so you could certainly field your fantasy models in 40k.


Yeah that was great. The armies were all fantasy races with the Space pre-fix 'cos the director of GW at the time told Rick Preistly that sci-fi models would never sell, so players better be able to use their fantasy models in the games.


They are from “Ere we go” blood axe army list.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Indeed. The best and most important thing about the RT Orky books?

Waaaargh! The Orks! contains no rules whatsoever. It’s pure background. The clans are covered in ‘Ere We Go and Freebooterz.

Would need to be home to check which clan is in which book though.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

Ere we go is snakebites, goffs and blood axes. Freebooterz is evil sunz, Deathskullz and bad moons. (And of course freebooterz).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kudos on including the are in waaargh too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/13 18:55:00


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

I remember reading my friends copy of Freebootaz and just loving all the art & stories.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





pretty sure that in the earliest books they described orks as 'marsupials' with a pouch. But they had 2 sexes and the females stayed back at camp.

Can't remember which book that was in.
   
Made in gb
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the WHFB and 40K crossover, I feel that’s demonstrated by one book.

No, not the RoC book which first really fleshed out The Emperor and Traitor Chapters (they weren’t Legions until a while later)

And that’s Warhammer Siege. I’ve got a copy, but I’m currently in Orkney (and fittingly enough, visited Kilbuster Farm, which sadly didn’t grow Orky tanks) so you’ll need to wait until I’m back. Unless of course another Grognard has a copy.

It’s predominantly a WHFB/WHFRP book, but has a section for sieges on medieval/feudal worlds in 40K too. Basically adding special rules and equipment for walkers more than anything, if memory serves.


I love Warhammer: Seige! It's probably my favourite WHFB 3rd edition rulebook (yes even after Slaves to Darkness. The giant Gymnastics Team and their Pyramid of Death! "Give a ballista and plenty of distance and I'll show ya how a real man fights!" It's crammed full of flavour for both games. (Although like the original Mighty Empires it turns it's theme into a campaign/meta-game that sits on top of the wargame)

It keeps the WHFB and 40k elements in separate chapters though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 09:24:03


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This time, I’m wondering if people might have burning questions on the early background. Perhaps you’ve tried to look something up, and found conflicting information, and now you’re all sixes and sevens, wondering what might be true.


I have a question about lasguns:
Somewhere long ago I got told or read that lasgun technology was gifted to the imperium by the eldar back when they were on relatively friendly terms...
Is there any truth to this?

   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They’ve always been part fungal, right back to Waaaargh The Orks! and possibly earlier.

The lifelong spore shedding and growth cycle is from GorkaMorka. In RT, it was more mysterious with old Orks wandering off to become hermits, and Wildboyz being the result.

The psychic stuff has kind of always been there. Certainly their chanting and fighting has always fed into Weirdboyz. But I think the “stuff works because they think it should” didn’t really hit until 4th Ed, I think? Might’ve been later than that.


I'm pretty sure there is mention of Ork communities (kids, families etc) in one of the RT Ork books?

I thought it was one of the Gav Thorpe codecies a bit later on that cemented them as entirely fungal gin nature, reproducing via spores etc.

I might have misremembered as it's quite a while since I have read those books!


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






 Guardling wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This time, I’m wondering if people might have burning questions on the early background. Perhaps you’ve tried to look something up, and found conflicting information, and now you’re all sixes and sevens, wondering what might be true.


I have a question about lasguns:
Somewhere long ago I got told or read that lasgun technology was gifted to the imperium by the eldar back when they were on relatively friendly terms...
Is there any truth to this?


It doesn’t sound familiar to be honest. Will look into it when I’m finally home from my holiday.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

 Guardling wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This time, I’m wondering if people might have burning questions on the early background. Perhaps you’ve tried to look something up, and found conflicting information, and now you’re all sixes and sevens, wondering what might be true.


I have a question about lasguns:
Somewhere long ago I got told or read that lasgun technology was gifted to the imperium by the eldar back when they were on relatively friendly terms...
Is there any truth to this?



hmm, not sure, but it took until 3rd edition for the Shuriken Cataplut to become the standard guardian weapon, whereas the 2nd edition guardians mostly had lasguns as standard (part of the original role of dire avengers was being a squad fully equipped with shurikens) i used to have a few of these old lasgun armed guardians but lost them years ago.

certianly, the lasgun was in use by the eldar and it wouldn't surprise me if be was "Originally" a eldar invention that spread to the Imperium.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/15 21:13:18


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller




WRT to Penal Legions and Human Bombs, page 148 of the Compendium gives the info. So probably was in WD too at some point.

Penal Legions are criminals conscripted to the Guard, fitted with explosive control collars, think Running Man.

Human Bombs are Penal troopers who seek redemption and volunteer to have explosives strapped to them, knowing they will be running into the enemy and exploding.
   
Made in fi
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






Fictional wrote:
WRT to Penal Legions and Human Bombs, page 148 of the Compendium gives the info. So probably was in WD too at some point.

Penal Legions are criminals conscripted to the Guard, fitted with explosive control collars, think Running Man.

Human Bombs are Penal troopers who seek redemption and volunteer to have explosives strapped to them, knowing they will be running into the enemy and exploding.


I don't understand why GW dropped them tbh. 40K is full of atrocities worse than some kamikaze troopers acting against their will.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

 tauist wrote:
Fictional wrote:
WRT to Penal Legions and Human Bombs, page 148 of the Compendium gives the info. So probably was in WD too at some point.

Penal Legions are criminals conscripted to the Guard, fitted with explosive control collars, think Running Man.

Human Bombs are Penal troopers who seek redemption and volunteer to have explosives strapped to them, knowing they will be running into the enemy and exploding.


I don't understand why GW dropped them tbh. 40K is full of atrocities worse than some kamikaze troopers acting against their will.


I think its partly due to a shift in the IG lore towards a greater emphasis on the "cannon fodder that dies heroically to achieve victory though great sacrifice" angle of them throwing bodies at a problem. I also think they like to keep a few "red lines" for the imperium, so that Chaos can then violate those to emphasise the are Truly Evil(tm)


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





didn't the Human bombs have an odd background where some of the vests didnt actually have charges as "forgiveness" for choosing to serve the Emperor, of course running at a mob of boyz and not sploding wasnt going to end well either

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






Fictional wrote:
WRT to Penal Legions and Human Bombs, page 148 of the Compendium gives the info. So probably was in WD too at some point.


Yes they get a paragraph and army list entry in WD issue 109.
You had to include an Adeptus Mechanicus in the army to work the explosive harnesses on human bombs and the collars on penal squads, which could also dispense Frenzon for extra points.

Don't recall anything about dud jackets, could have been in a short story maybe?

Re: lasguns being an eldar invention... this does ring a faint bell, I am sure I have read that somewhere too...

I have a blog on the Warhammer Tournaments website:

There Will Always be Chainswords

My painting and modeling blog:

PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles 
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







The Eldar codex from 1999 has a bit on eldar weapons from the Imperial point of view. It states there that "Eldar laser weapons appear to function in a similar way to our own." and then goes on to say that the Eldar stuff is more effective than Imperial equivalents.

The RT book and 2nd ed Wargear books don't say anything on the origin of lasguns.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
 Guardling wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This time, I’m wondering if people might have burning questions on the early background. Perhaps you’ve tried to look something up, and found conflicting information, and now you’re all sixes and sevens, wondering what might be true.


I have a question about lasguns:
Somewhere long ago I got told or read that lasgun technology was gifted to the imperium by the eldar back when they were on relatively friendly terms...
Is there any truth to this?



hmm, not sure, but it took until 3rd edition for the Shuriken Cataplut to become the standard guardian weapon, whereas the 2nd edition guardians mostly had lasguns as standard (part of the original role of dire avengers was being a squad fully equipped with shurikens) i used to have a few of these old lasgun armed guardians but lost them years ago.

certianly, the lasgun was in use by the eldar and it wouldn't surprise me if be was "Originally" a eldar invention that spread to the Imperium.


In the 40k compilation army list (and the 2nd edition codex armylist pamphlet), standard Guardian squads came with lasguns, and you could upgrade them to a "battle squad" which was kitted out with shuricats.

By the 3rd edition codex (1999), guardians just had shuricats.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/16 16:26:51


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
 
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