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Made in gb
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Killer Klaivex







Taking from a few sources:-

One Patreon wrote: Copyright issues

Guys! At the moment, there is an active struggle against 3D printing on the part of our beloved company. So I decided to finally do the normal artwork for the next release. We are waiting for a restart for the next 2-3 days! Welcome pack and past models will still be available!


Another Patreon wrote:Hello,

Unfortunately I need to pause the Patreon. It appears GW is on a rampage and while I haven't received any communication from them I certainly have been hearing about it from many corners of our little hobby. So Im going to lay low at least for August and see what happens.

I hope you all will hold out til I know what direction the channel will take, but understand one way or another.

Thanks a ton for being here and willing to support my work. I'll definitely be back but it remains to be seen in what capacity.

Thanks,


A third v. popular 40K themed Patreon owner wrote:(i'd be lying if I said this new development didn't make me nervous


Looks like the sculptors are battening down the hatches.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 17:26:45



 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

Aren't these just reactions to GW's 'updated' IP guidelines (being discussed here)?
   
Made in gb
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Killer Klaivex







beast_gts wrote:
Aren't these just reactions to GW's 'updated' IP guidelines (being discussed here)?


Possibly not. Starting to sound like there's been another wave of C&D's (carrying on from the whole Duncan Shadow thing last month).

That being said, I swear that was a crackdown earlier in the year too, so this may be turning into a cyclical thing. Namely, GW sends out a wave of C&D's every few months. Only time will tell.

   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






Who are these people, and what are they making?

Gonna say, when you make money off of someone elses's IP without permission, this is not a surprise.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

The ones that are panicking are those who are basically doing things that are copies (or very close copies) of GW stuff. Those who are doing alternates are sometimes getting a few "change this please" messages (eg One Page Rules recently adjusted a few of their Lizardmen/Seraphon sculpts) but otherwise carrying on as normal. Whilst those doing stuff that isn't a direct copy are going along as normal.


Heck I've seen one or two of the emails GW sends and they specifically note the models that are, in GW's view, breaching the copyright and GW openly gives the designer the option to either take them down or rework them for approval.

This is nothing more than GW protecting its IP. If anything GW are being very nice about it in general. I am waiting for Hollywood/Squaresoft/Videogames/Comics to come down on 3D printing. There's a lot of paid for "fan" designs and outright copies of stuff out there at present on patreons and the like. It's super cool, but also unlicensed and once those markets pay attention to 3D printing the hammer might fall on some designers very hard.

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Made in us
Chaos Space Marine dedicated to Slaanesh






Not surprised at all, really.
   
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Ship's Officer





Dallas, TX

perhaps the beginning of its death thrashing. You either adapt or go extinct. This seem like the music industry vs streaming services; TV/cable vs internet streaming services; who remembers Blockbuster?
   
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Executing Exarch






I member

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Pepperidge Farm remembers

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
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Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
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Killer Klaivex







It may not be a coincidence that Alexei Konev, who makes certain interesting busts and sculpts which could be deemed 40K themed, has just made a new site and said the following:-

I want to make an announcement that my beloved wifey @Ivy Koneva and I are working on opening a company Z KINO and now almost everything is ready and we are also launching our independent page in this regard. This will be an altarpiece to Patreon, MMF and other similar sites where you can find my works, but this site will be absolutely independent of the platform's policies and the pressure of moderators on the content that can be posted on them


I just want to have a website too. everything will remain as before. and patreon and other platforms. we just want, firstly, to have an absolutely independent platform on which it will be possible to release any releases that we deem necessary and no one can come from the top and remove our work and secondly expand our area of ​​influence.


Probably a smart move for the larger ones. It forces GW to either put up in court or shut up; rather than being able to throw a few C&D's around and get everything they want.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/24 10:25:06



 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Interestingly I think so far the only letter he's had has been from Creature Caster not GW - and even then it related to a banner and images instead of sculpted models.

A Blog in Miniature

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Killer Klaivex







 Overread wrote:
Interestingly I think so far the only letter he's had has been from Creature Caster not GW - and even then it related to a banner and images instead of sculpted models.


IIRC, I believe he had a diorama last year get hit by GW. The Mars one.

EDIT:- Word on the street is that Andrew Angel/Glukivnete just got C&D'd and had to take down all of his 'Not-Primarchs'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/24 20:42:06



 
   
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Killer Klaivex







Dark Gods Eternal KS just got nailed. Apparently it's felt that these pretty generic models are so inextricably 'Death Guard' that they infringe upon GW's intellectual property. Unlike Andrew Angel (which, tbh, I can see and would agree with, they're obvious infringements of GW's primarch designs), I can't say I see it here, at least not any more so than a thousand other 'Not-Marine' designs by two dozen other companies. 'Diseased/Mutated space dude in armour' isn't really a protectable concept.






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This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/07/26 20:30:30



 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'm assuming that more has been said in the background between designer and GW since that message reads like a very standard blanket legal letter just to Kickstarter themselves.

In general most of the emails I've seen from GW where they've been sent to designers tend to be much more specific. "X and Y" model have problems and outlining those issues as well as offers to re-assess if the designer makes changes.

A Blog in Miniature

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Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
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Killer Klaivex







 Overread wrote:
I'm assuming that more has been said in the background between designer and GW since that message reads like a very standard blanket legal letter just to Kickstarter themselves.

In general most of the emails I've seen from GW where they've been sent to designers tend to be much more specific. "X and Y" model have problems and outlining those issues as well as offers to re-assess if the designer makes changes.


Eh. The Orks he had planned are no different to what Kromlech or any other company put out on a regular basis. Frankly put, if this guy infringes, then so does most of the third party industry, be it in 3d print, or resin cast. Which is what makes it interesting that they've gone for him. Very much lends credence to the idea that they're judging the two means of production/industries on a different set of scales. I guess we'll find out if Geargutz or Ghamak or someone else gets hit.


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Ghamak has a few that I think are rather too close and some that are totally different.

That said it might also depend on the country of origin and means of distribution. There are likely some 3rd party designers that GW would like to challenge who they can't simply because of the country and the fact that, say, they use their own website.

We also have to consider scale, the 3D print market is growing at an insane rate right now so GW likely has their intern's hands full just keeping up. Especially when GW is a very low hanging fruit for those looking to make a name for themselves early. But also such a huge giant that they've inspired so many who also just want to do their own take on the GW market that has driven and shaped their hobby and thus sculpting interests.


I'm not surprised that GW is going after them; this is GW's market and their whole industry and income.


I'm more surprised that the likes of RNE studios aren't getting shot at by Hollywood and Video game companies; or the legions of others doing similar works. I suspect when hollywood and such wake up to 3D printing and pay attention to it, we might find that GW are much more soft in how they deal with it than the machines of mega-companies that far outside GW and also have no need to appease or play good with the 3D print market in any way.



~Heck it would not surprise me if, in the future, GW licences out to 3D print firms. Letting them generate official alternate sculpts with marketing through GW and also basically a safe way to conduct their business. Sure GW would ensure that they aren't the same as their core models. Or heck GW might embrace that angle directly in-house.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 20:46:56


A Blog in Miniature

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Regular Dakkanaut





Right, the reason that can even get cancelled is because they're operating the money efforts through a 3rd party like KS, or hosting files only through MMF/patreon/thingiverse who have their own PR/legal departments (or equivalent counseling) who are going to weigh the pros & cons of allowing artists to use their platforms to run gigs based on alleged IP infringement.
Whereas bits sellers or Kromlech and even geargutz have invested in their own webstores, where C&D notices don't have the same immediate pull.
In the last week, I've noticed some of the FauxrtyK patreons started hiding their preview image posts behind the pay veil blur.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Hiding isn't really that effective unless you basically cut your customer base down to nothing and never advertise or market at all.

If you're marketing or even if you're just making stuff that's popular and your fans market for you (word of mouth; photos etc...); then you'll get spotted. Once you're spotted I'd assume GW would keep tabs and the cost of subscribing to a few dozen patreons for GW is likely less than the cost ot pay the lawyer to write the initial draft letter

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Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 PondaNagura wrote:
Right, the reason that can even get cancelled is because they're operating the money efforts through a 3rd party like KS, or hosting files only through MMF/patreon/thingiverse who have their own PR/legal departments (or equivalent counseling) who are going to weigh the pros & cons of allowing artists to use their platforms to run gigs based on alleged IP infringement.
Whereas bits sellers or Kromlech and even geargutz have invested in their own webstores, where C&D notices don't have the same immediate pull.
In the last week, I've noticed some of the FauxrtyK patreons started hiding their preview image posts behind the pay veil blur.


GW can still send C&D's to whoever owns the server that hosts those websites. Even if someone has a website, it's rare they actually own the server and rather are just renting it.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
GW can still send C&D's to whoever owns the server that hosts those websites. Even if someone has a website, it's rare they actually own the server and rather are just renting it.


True, and I considered that whilst typing, I could see more mainstream hosting platforms complying. Though those effected might just relocate to hosting from servers in countries where international IP have less pull, particularly in regards selling toy soldiers. Granted that may come with security protection concerns for potential customers.
We'll probably see a chapterhouse 2.0 type case before the end of the decade. But that's a discussion for elsewhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 02:36:51


 
   
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Killer Klaivex







A Patreon Owner wrote:As many of you know, what we do here is considered a tad controversial by a certain company who we shall not name. They don't like our work as for some reason they seem to think that if we (proxy creators) didn't exist then you guys would have no CHOICE but to buy their insanely expensive products. And because they are big and rich, they can throw their weight around with impunity because no one can fight them. Also If you havent heard, they are even going after fan made animations! I cant tell if they ACTUALLY want us to play their game or not!! lol

In any case, they are running wild right now, attacking many creators, even a merchant member of this very channel, and since that's a little too close to home. I will pause for a while, try to keep a low profile on my models. My Cults is down and my Facebook is also paused.

During the pause, you can all remain Patrons of my channel, however you will NOT be charged on the first of the month as normal. Likely I will un-pause at some point next month and then we will try to pick up again in September as "normal".

Sorry for the inconvenience, folks. I will take this time to catch up on some backed-up freelance work and to make a plan for the ongoing future of the channel.

As always, thank you so much for sticking with me!


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Honestly sounds rather hyperbolic eps when they talk about fan videos where the only ones GW has so far "gone after" are those monetizing the videos and even then they've offered many of them a "work for us" contract.

This is also nothing new, GW has been doing this for a long time, this "wave" is nothing new; though it might be the first time for some of the proxy creators getting their first copyright claim letter/situation.

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Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 Ketara wrote:
I can't say I see it here, at least not any more so than a thousand other 'Not-Marine' designs by two dozen other companies. 'Diseased/Mutated space dude in armour' isn't really a protectable concept.

those models have the Death Guard/Nurgle Icons on them, and this is protectable

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut






 kodos wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I can't say I see it here, at least not any more so than a thousand other 'Not-Marine' designs by two dozen other companies. 'Diseased/Mutated space dude in armour' isn't really a protectable concept.

those models have the Death Guard/Nurgle Icons on them, and this is protectable


I doubt that three dots in a triangle can be legally protected.
There are uses (signage, symbols, character accents) that predate GW's use by centuries.
In that it's just like an arrow, a chevron or greek capital letters.

   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

3 skulls in a circle can not

3 skulls in a circle on a mutated scifi soldier in armor can

it is not the symbol alone but in combination with the count as Space Marines

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
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Killer Klaivex







 kodos wrote:
3 skulls in a circle can not

3 skulls in a circle on a mutated scifi soldier in armor can

it is not the symbol alone but in combination with the count as Space Marines


At best, it gives you an exceedingly weak case in a court of law for arguing that the other guy took inspiration from your work (it's three separate circles - hardly the Pepsi logo). It's a long, long, legal haul from pointing those out to being able to successfully argue that the -entire model- infringes upon a -specific expression of an idea- (aka, another Death Guard model with associated backstory) devised by Games Workshop. You'd need a damn sight more, and frankly, the Mark III style pad on one of them is far better evidence in that regard.

I'm not saying that that shoulder pad turns it into a strong case (it doesn't), but more that what people think is copyright protected, what GW claims is copyright protected, and what actually is are very different beasts.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 23:48:23



 
   
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Killer Klaivex







Hi backers

Bad news today :(

But we are talking to GW in case we can fix the issues and we can continue the campaign. We hope that

The project is on hold right now until the dispute is resolved. Just give us a few days to talk to GW and we'll tell you about the future.

Thanks to all the people who have written to us and hoping that we get it.

And if this project is canceled, don't worry. We’ll make the changes to publish again.
We will always keep you informed!

Thanks for all and we are so sorry for that, we know all of you wew very excited to print this army.

Cheers!


So there you have it everyone. Generic skeletons, ghouls, and wraiths are now apparently owned by Games Workshop if they happen to be pictured with the same weapons/squad loadouts as GW gives them in AoS.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 00:40:38



 
   
Made in us
Chaos Space Marine dedicated to Slaanesh






Yikes.
   
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





If I know which Kickstarter you're talking about, the wraiths weren't really that generic. Much more Nighthaunt (smokey robes with skulls and arms and stuff) than say, every other generic wraith I've ever seen which is nothing more than a smokey robe.
   
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Ravenous Beast Form







I wonder if the ratfolk one I'm backing will make it through...

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