Can Marines go Prone?

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**Vatsetis**

I was curious if the different marks of power armor allow SM to fire while prone... I asume scouts can and terminators cant.

But what about mark vi and vii and the different variants of primaris armor?

Do we have any official GW drawing or miniature image of a prone space marine?

If not, fan made material or conversions would be nice to see also.

Thanks in advance.

**Gert**

Why wouldn't they be able to?

**Lord Damocles**

Gert wrote:
Why wouldn't they be able to?

The pauldrons do rather get in the way...

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Yes. Yes they can.

The joy of the Black Carapace is it pretty much turns the armour in an extension of the body, so it barely encumbers the wearer.

The shoulder pads are auto-reactive, so capable of positioning themselves correctly. That could include extension type arm things to lift them clear when needs must.

**epronovost**

Nit ideal due to the armor configuration, but perfectly possible except in Centurion and Terminator armor which are too cumbersome.

**Vatsetis**

I dont understand what "auto reactive shoulder pads" means... Could you please explain in detail what that exactly means and give link to a reference?

We can assume that teoretically in lore SM are able to go prone, but are they ment to be able to fire, move and fight normally in such position?

Also do we have any graphic evidence (photo or drawing) that they can actually go prone?

Pd for Gert and Sgt Smudge: dont bother answering any of my posts, for sanity reasons I have send you to my ignore list, so I wont notice what you write.

**Gert**

It would probably just be like a normal human lying down in thick steel plate. Not exactly easy or comfortable but still possible. I'm not even sure the pads would get in the way unless the Astartes was lying face down or something weird.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Auto-reactive.

Essentially, they’re intended to protect the arm and lower head. As such, they’re kind of ablative armour - something there to take the first few hits without diminishing the overall protection.

If you look at the models and art, you might think they’d be bad for line of sight. They’re kinda high up, so a quick turn of the head might, on first appearance, to limit the wearer’s field of view.

This is where auto-reactive comes in. In easy words (I’m aware English isn’t your first language, so I’m trying to keep it simple for ease of communication), they react to the wearer.

When I look to my left, my left hand shoulder pad will lower itself to clear my line of sight. When I’m running, both shoulder pads will move themself to maximise movement.

Whilst it’s never said in canon that an Astartes can’t lie prone? There’s, more importantly, nothing to say they can’t lie prone.

The exact limits of power armour really aren’t that well defined. So the assumption I make is that the auto-reactive nature would take care of it - however daft it might look when modelled (such as spindly armatures lifting the pads clear. If there’s nothing to say that doesn’t occur, then we can safely assume it does)

**Vatsetis**

So I assume al this auto reactiveness is related to the black carapace... Im wrong?

Men, this is an element of the lore badly translated to the miniatures and art... Those armor suits and specially the shoulder pads look rigid as hell.

**epronovost**

Vatsetis wrote:
So I assume al this auto reactiveness is related to the black carapace... Im wrong?

Men, this is an element of the lore badly translated to the miniatures and art... Those armor suits and specially the shoulder pads look rigid as hell.

It's indeed related to the black carapace and the armor of Space Marines is designed to look like a rigid massive thing when standing up if only to make them more intimidating.

**jareddm**

The best example of this was in the Spear of the Emperor limited edition lore book, which included a multi-page, layered cross section of Mk X armor. The Pauldrons are mounted on a series of points known as the Dynamic Pauldron Mounting Piles that can actively shift the Pauldrons both in relation to the wearer's movements and to incoming projectiles.

**PappyNurgle**

Canonically, they can go prone and remain at the ready for combat which implies the ability to fire while prone. The novelization of the first Dawn of War game has them prone for a spot or two in the book, namely when they discover the ground is saturated in blood.

As for Terminator armor and whatnot, its not entirely designed for prone positions, much less firing that way, but in a pinch I'd assume you can. You see and read about people doing crazy stuff in combat now and in history because the alternative is usually becoming very, very dead, so I'd say its probably plausable that even ye olde termies can drop on the ground and hose things if needed.

**Vatsetis**

BTW is there any lore technical explanaition of how do the SM reduce their significant ground pressure (which will be a problem when ussing their high speed on soft ground)??

**BrianDavion**

Vatsetis wrote:
BTW is there any lore technical explanaition of how do the SM reduce their significant ground pressure (which will be a problem when ussing their high speed on soft ground)??

the same way titans reduce their signfcigent ground pressure I would reckon? (in other words don't over think it)

**beast_gts**

Vatsetis wrote:
BTW is there any lore technical explanaition of how do the SM reduce their significant ground pressure (which will be a problem when ussing their high speed on soft ground)??

IIRC one of the RPGs said it was a form of Suspensor.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Yes, they can. In one of the HH anthology books outlining a squad of Salamanders ambushing a patrol of Night Lords bikers, I believe it explicitly refers to them observing them from a prone position.

**Vatsetis**

But we have no actual official graphic depiction of prone marines, dont we?

**Sgt_Smudge**

Vatsetis wrote:Pd for Gert and Sgt Smudge: dont bother answering any of my posts, for sanity reasons I have send you to my ignore list, so I wont notice what you write.

I'm not answering this for you, I'm answering this anyone else in the thread who actually cares to receive an answer.

Vatsetis wrote:BTW is there any lore technical explanaition of how do the SM reduce their significant ground pressure (which will be a problem when ussing their high speed on soft ground)??

As BrianDavion says:

BrianDavion wrote:the same way titans reduce their signfcigent ground pressure I would reckon? (in other words don't over think it)

Nearly every walker in 40k (and in media in general) is generally impractical, unsuitable, and illogical. But it's fiction, looks cool, and so we handwave it.

If you want to complain about Space Marines, you would first need to address literally *every* entity larger than a human.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vatsetis wrote:
But we have no actual official graphic depiction of prone marines, dont we?

We don't have any graphic depictions of a Space Marine doing picking flowers, but it can assumed that they can.

However, unlike picking flowers, we *do* have written proof they can, in the Horus Heresy books.

**Vatsetis**

The aim of this post is not polemistic, I just wanted to better understand how SM actually move.

SM arent neither giant robots like Titans (or even Dreadnoughts) nor warp deamons...they are ment to be infantry, so its sort of interesting to understand which are their capabilities as an infantry unit.

**Haighus**

Vatsetis wrote:
BTW is there any lore technical explanaition of how do the SM reduce their significant ground pressure (which will be a problem when ussing their high speed on soft ground)??

Is the approximate weight of a power armoured Marine known? They have very wide feet with a pretty large surface area, so the ground pressure may not be all that high to be honest. They can probably go anywhere that can take the weight of, say, a large bull or draught horse (both of which can weigh over a ton and have much narrower feet).

**beast_gts**

Haighus wrote:
Is the approximate weight of a power armoured Marine known?

Nothing accurate. They're described as being heavy enough to leave footprints in the ornamental floor of a Governors' Palace, and can reduce a human to red mist if they run straight at them.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

From Age of Darkness, a Heresy novel.

Transhuman dread. Aximand had heard iterators talk of the condition. He’d heard descriptions of it from regular Army officers too. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing: taller and broader than a man could ever be, armoured like a demigod. The singularity of purpose was self-evident. An Adeptus Astartes was designed to fight and kill anything that didn’t annihilate it first. If you saw an Adeptus Astartes, you knew you were in trouble. The appearance alone cowed you with fear.

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first.

This should give a clear idea of just how little the power armour hinders an Astartes.

Because it’s not just battle plate, such as plate or flak body armour.

Each version of Power Armour includes its own “skeleton”, and fibre muscles. This, couple with the black carapace makes it an extension of the Astartes’ body. Taken altogether, it adds no strain to the muscles.

So yeah, they probably would sink into proper gloopy mud. But when it comes to moving, you’ve the Astartes own strength, combined with that granted by the armour itself.

And as noted, the boots are quite wide, adding further assistance as the weight is better distributed, akin to snow shows.

For sake of completeness? Astartes Power Armour is superior to other forces thanks to the Black Carapace. That organ thing creates a direct neural interface, allowing the suit to react as if it’s part of the wearers own body. So if you want to take a step, the suit moves with you, as opposed to non-black carapace linked Power Armour, where it would be reacting to the movement.

Sure it sounds like a small difference, but a difference all the same. Especially with an Astartes incredible reaction time.

**Vatsetis**

That "transhuman dread" looks very similar to the "tank terror" that early tanks inspired on 1916-1921 infantry men.

It was quickly overcome when the tank vulberabilities became apparent and infantry learn how to deal with this new weapon system.

That paragrah of Age of Darkness seems very subjective in its tone. You cannot use that as reliable source for SM actual mobility... Only that they look scary and unnatural when moving.

Comparing an SM movement capabilities to that of a horse seems adecuate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5d_BuI-KbA

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

A passage, which describes an Astartes, in full power armour, striking at the speed of a snake isn’t a reliable source for Astartes mobility?

K.

**Vatsetis**

Well it seems a piece on writting specifically design to reinforce the fear factor of the Marines.

https://writingcommons.org/article/news-or-opinion/

**Gert**

It's a concept that is regularly explored in 40k fiction so I'm not sure how a piece of 40k fiction specifically explaining how an Astartes moves is a bad reference. There aren't bloody academic papers on this Vatsetis.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

You seem to have it in your head that because of their not inconsiderable weight, Astartes must be lumbering lummoxes.

Yet that is not what the background tells us. Indeed, it’s what makes them such effective Terror Troops.

Everything about them is crafted to elicit terror in their foe.

The speed they move at. The protection granted by their armour. Their standard arms turning your mates into fine red mists. Their chainswords tearing bodies into wet, chunky gobbets. The fact they can fight for days on end, without rest or respite.

Even if you manage to do damage, they just don’t care. Blow their arm off, and they keep on fighting. Their wounds clot before your eyes, and it slows them not one jot. If their gun runs out of ammo, or they’re otherwise disarmed? They’re still perfectly capable of putting their fist straight through you.

Running away, eh? Good luck with that. They can run faster and longer than you can. They can also track your scent (not a uniquely Space Wolf trait. They just have a more pronounced ability)

Barricade the door? To quote Rick O’Connell? Honey, whatcha doing? These guys don’t use doors.

There is no aspect of Astartes at war that is not utterly terrifying.

**Gert**

Even not in a combat scenario an encounter with an Astartes would shake someone to their core.
The Apocalypse tie-in novel shows three Astartes (an Imperial Fist Lt, a White Scar Khan, and a Raven Guard Captain) interacting with various high-ranking mortals at a "party". The Fist wears a specially made uniform, the Khan wears a form of tribal dress, and the Raven wears formal robes. It's made clear how difficult the Fist finds interacting with mortals although he tries his hardest, the Khan likes to act friendly but always keeps them fearful and the Raven basically talks to no one and pretends that he is surveying the room looking for targets.
Astartes know the influence they have on mortals with fear being the first and greatest emotion felt.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

We also see similar in Nightbringer, the first Uriel Ventriss novel.

He single handedly quells a near-riot just by driving past in an open topped Grav carriage. Hundreds (possibly thousands? Been a while since I read it) cowed into submission just by sort of being in the vicinity.

Doesn’t address the crowd, let alone threaten it.

**Vatsetis**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You seem to have it in your head that because of their not inconsiderable weight, Astartes must be lumbering lummoxes.

Im just trying to better understand how SM work

Mad Doc you are really effective selling the "Astartes Dread"... You should probably ask for a work in BL if you are interested, Im sure some of their writters arent as passionate and effective as you are.