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Curious to know if there's any house rules out there that people often use and why, rules balance or thematic etc.
Granted AoS 3 is still pretty new but isnt hugely different to 2nd so some may have rolled over.
One have been using a little is a variant on shooting within engagement range.
- Models in base to base contact (we say <1/2" of an enemy model have a minus 1 to shooting unless using a pistol.
Even though I play KO, AoS feels too shooting heavy. In melee there's some options for opponents with activation orders. But shooting feels like theres nothing the opponent can do, and being in CC only tags the unit.
For my case its a bit easier as have said pistol weapons are those with it in the name, so Arkanauts, Skywardens and some heroes. Works out nicely as it relatively buffs these units against stronger counterparts like thunderers and endrinriggers. Also allows some more tactical options such as screening Arkanauts infront of thunderers to keep them out of BTB but in 3".
Reactive command abilities also seemed to have generally benefitted shooting in 3rd which have also tried to mitigate.
With it just being a house rule, have bent it a bit for things like breath attacks from dragons. As it made more sense to us that those wouldnt be affected.
A second house rule havent tried but am thinking about is on armour saves.
- resolve positive modifiers to armour saves before applying negative modifiers.
This is because theres quite a few ways to stack multiple +1 save mods on a unit thats about to receive a big hit. A lot of the time rend -1 means nothing I have felt and usually rend -2 attacks get readily negated as theyre not as common.
Newer armies are seeming to have better armour saves (main opponent is gravelords) and its like half the army is always at a 2+ save. Without mortal wounds thats pretty hard to get through.
Are there any that others have tried on 3rd or 2nd?
If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush
auticus wrote: I had to use heavy house rules, but that tends to bring a lot of heat your way online so beware.
Well, if it's not coming from those you actually play with, so what?
"Oh no, someone I don't play with from somewhere else doesn't approve of how we're playing with our toy soldiers....."
My circle hasn't really done much with Sigmar.3 yet. The tp 3 changes we'll make will be;
1) Ignoring the new unit size based coherency rules - we already ignore this in 40k, & didn't have it in Sigmar.2. And we know the world hasn't stopped spinning as a result....
2) We'll very likely add the Grand Alliance features back in.
3) We'll 100% keep right on using Warscroll Battalions, Legends, Bretonians, etc.
Yeah I agree on the warscroll battalions, was a bummer they dropped them out. But there was a ton of them with a lot pretty terrible and others great. Just like anything in the game I suppose. Would you take them as they were or look to repoint them? I had wondered what the extra CP and single drop would add up to. Maybe 75 pts off each warscroll if you only used the unique abilities.
tneva82 wrote: One thing I'm entertaining is using the core rule for deciding first turn. Aka skip the matched play separate rule.
Less of a race to bottom on drops.
Damn we're obviously pretty casual. Id completely missed that but looking closer in the GHB there it is. Yeah dont like that at all. Another house rule then we apparently use haha
If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush
- Using Realm Rules in Path to Glory/Narrative missions
This one causes a little bit of weirdness because the narrative battlepack was clearly not intended to play with these rules. Most don't use objectives or VP, and the Ritual doesn't use a Prime Objective so if the disruptor goes 2nd in battle round 3 they can elect to destroy the Ritual-doer's only source of points. But overall, heroes morphing into monsters and monsters fighting hard even at high wounds is fun.
- I personally don't take the double turn.
This is only a personal thing. In 2.0 house ruling the double turn out was a much easier thing, but with how 3.0 incorporates it more strongly into the design it's not so simple.
Yeah I agree on the warscroll battalions, was a bummer they dropped them out. But there was a ton of them with a lot pretty terrible and others great. Just like anything in the game I suppose. Would you take them as they were or look to repoint them? I had wondered what the extra CP and single drop would add up to. Maybe 75 pts off each warscroll if you only used the unique abilities.
I would/do (because only Matched Play doesn't allow them) just make them free and ignore the CP/extra enhancement/one drop benefit which they explicitly do not give any more. It gets way too weird trying to point it out otherwise, considering the nebulous value of the CP (would you get 1 per turn or copy the core battalion rule of 1 in 1 hero phase of your choice?) and the special rule you get.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 14:27:57
Ignoring random initiative. The extra CP for going second already provides a sufficient counterbalance to first-turn advantage. We don't replace it with anything, we just say at the start 'oh hey you want to ignore random initiative?' And it works. Better than AoS normally does, for that matter.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Ignoring random initiative. The extra CP for going second already provides a sufficient counterbalance to first-turn advantage. We don't replace it with anything, we just say at the start 'oh hey you want to ignore random initiative?' And it works. Better than AoS normally does, for that matter.
I'm hoping that after our initial Path to Glory campaign, where the group has experienced the system, I'll be able to convince them of that. They were fairly convinced in 2nd edition but 3rd editions extra stuff for players to do in your opponent's turn has given them pause on re-adopting it immediately.
auticus wrote: Ignoring random initiative / double turn was probably the very best house rule we had in place as well.
Certainly makes for quick games. Look at army lists, know who goes first, then can simply figure out who wins. Just like in 40k.
Can play 100 games in hour that way!
Not all of us are blessed with the ability to predict dice rolls. But then again, since you can, wouldn't you also be able to predict the double turns? So I don't understand your complaint.
auticus wrote: Ignoring random initiative / double turn was probably the very best house rule we had in place as well.
Certainly makes for quick games. Look at army lists, know who goes first, then can simply figure out who wins. Just like in 40k.
Can play 100 games in hour that way!
That was exactly my AOS experience with double turn as well for several years. The fact that some of you latch on to double turn as a good thing because the balance is so god awful and you feel you need it to counterbalance the horribad balance speaks volumes to me lol.
REGARDLESS... if I have to choose between the game experience where the game is busted in balance, the lists are super out of whack and 2000 points of my list counts as 5,500 points because I am good at stats and probabilities and maximizing via excel spreadsheets, then that is not going to change the outcome of the game double turn or no double turn unless my opponent's list's actual performance value is near mine. Or at least it won't as often *IN MY EXPERIENCE* as is being touted by the general community. A player with a for fun list vs a player with a tournament powered optimized list is going to be a route with or without the double turn.
So if I have to choose between what I in my own personal opinion consider to be the most impactful feel-bad experience I've encountered in 30 years of wargaming (the double turn) or to have it removed, I will want it removed. The outcome of the game based on looking at lists and knowing the winner in my experience doesn't change with the double turn in the environment I was in. It may for yours if your environment lists are closer to each other. In my environment the for-fun lists were devastated and lol'd off the table with and without the double turn.
Additionally... I dont spend $800 on an army and hours and hours of painting to then win the game because I won a double turn on a single roll of a d6. That is the most anti-climactic feel bad ... win or lose ... that I know of. We dont need to spend $800 on that, we can just roll dice without pulling models out.
Oooh. There's an idea. AOS the dice game. With special $500 resin dice. No painting required. Same basic gameplay experience thats actually a semi-interesting idea.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/12 15:39:03
Oooh. There's an idea. AOS the dice game. With special $500 resin dice. No painting required. Same basic gameplay experience thats actually a semi-interesting idea.
I think WK already did that a few years ago with their kinda crappy Dice Masters game.
They missed out on the special $500 resin dice, but, like all WK games there were rarities & of course LE dice only available through events & such....
Double turns aren't really the problem, the problem is the igoyougo system of warhammer is how much damage you can do in a turn. if the game had alternating activations, then a double turn would actually be kinda fun as it'd add some randomness to the turn order and some tactical depth. I don't think you can just paste AA onto the warhammer system, but I do think if 4th edition AOS or 10th edition 40k tried to tweek the game for AA it'd be an improvement. although it might slow the game down
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
People raise it like a magic bullet that fixes everything, when really AA simply has a different set of issues. It's also not a matter of just writing it into AoS; it's re-writing the system from the ground up.
I didn't rewrite the system from the ground up. Granted that was 2.0. I have no idea what 3.0 did.
Its not a magic bullet that fixes everything by any means but it makes the game far more interactive and less standing there with thumbs up your bum for two full turns doing nothing but removing models, which is why I almost refuse to ever play IGOUGO full turns again.
It is a magic bullet for removing a strong negative play experience at the very least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/13 04:57:30
Speaking of house rules, just wondering what people's thoughts about facehammer are? They've implemented a fair amount, including, for example, extra points automatically given to perceived weaker armies and Gotrek not being allowed to heal.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People raise it like a magic bullet that fixes everything, when really AA simply has a different set of issues. It's also not a matter of just writing it into AoS; it's re-writing the system from the ground up.
agreed. AA would require a total re-work of the game.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
lare2 wrote: Speaking of house rules, just wondering what people's thoughts about facehammer are? They've implemented a fair amount, including, for example, extra points automatically given to perceived weaker armies and Gotrek not being allowed to heal.
I’ll post the changes below for those not familiar with the facehammer tourney comp pack referenced above.
I think its great. Tourney comp packs have been a long time coming, in my opinion. Its been pretty weird that in the lifespan of AoS, its been a thing where because we now get official FAQ’s and points updates regularly, that we have endured alot of broken and negative play experiences in between waiting for official changes. It seemed like comped tournies in WHFB days were more commonplace than non-comped, but that could be rose-colored glasses on my part.
Its all pretty conservative changes(at a glance, imo + ymmv) but still welcome. Like giving an extra 100/150 points to Hedonites/BoC is more of a band-aid and kiss on their boo-boo when they they actually need major invasive surgery, but I wouldn’t say no to more points if I played those armies. Still going to be an uphill battle for the armies that received extra points.
Gotrek is still going to be Gotrek.
Lumineth players might also take umbrage with the pack, given how they were a recipient to alot of changes. Not sure how I feel about the Kharadron changes, but I’m not well versed in their issues, admittedly.
And also, if its from the Facehammer guys, possibly a prelude to future offical changes given that they are part of the playtest team, ie “The Faithful” that are thanked in the credits of every battletome.
The changes:
Army Size
Armies will be 2,000 points with the following exceptions
The following armies will receive a bonus 100 points
o Hedonites of Slaanesh
o Flesh-Eater Courts
The following armies will receive 150 bonus points
o Gloomspite Gitz
o Nighthaunt
o Beasts of Chaos
Please note you will still follow all restrictions as if you have a 2000 point army regarding number of battlefield roles and ally points etc.
House Rules
The following house rules will be in effect for FHGT2021
Gotrek Gurnisson
Add the following special rule to his warscroll
“Legend of the old worlde: Gotrek cannot belong in any core battalion. Wounds allocated to this model cannot be healed”
Chronomantic Cogs
Mechanisms of time: change the 4th paragraph to:
“If it is decreasing the flow of time, one WIZARD within 6” of this endless spell can attempt to cast 1 extra spell in the commanding player’s hero phase”
Umbral Spellportal
Arcane Passage: Change 2nd paragraph to:
“Once per turn, if a wizard successfully casts a spell within 1” of this endless spell, the range, visibility and effect of that spell can be measured from one part of this endless spell instead of the caster.”
Lumineth Realm Lords: Shrine Luminor
Cleansing Rituals and Shrine guardian abilities can only be used once per battle round instead of once per turn.
Lumineth Realm Lords: Sevireth, lord of the seventh wind
Spirit of the wind: Change the first sentence of the rule to:
“At the end of YOUR shooting phase, this model can make a normal move or a retreat move of 12” (it cannot run)”
Lumineth Realm Lords: Hurakan Spirit of the wind
Spirit of the wind: Change the first sentence of the rule to:
“At the end of YOUR shooting phase, this model can make a normal move or a retreat move of 12” (it cannot run)”
Kharadron Overlords: Arkanaut Ironclad
Flying Transport: Add the following sentence to the end of the rule
“If this model did not move in the movement phase and a unit left the garrison this turn it may make a normal move or run afterwards”
Kharadron Overlords: Arkanaut Frigate
Flying Transport: Add the following sentence to the end of the rule
“If this model did not move in the movement phase and a unit left the garrison this turn it may make a normal move or run afterwards”
Disciples of Tzeentch: Agendas of Anarchy
Reckless Abandon: Change the agenda to the following
“Agenda: At the start of your charge phase, pick 1 friendly TZEENTCH unit that is 9” or more from ALL enemy units. If that unit ends a charge move in that charge phase within 1⁄2” of an enemy model, this agenda is completed.”
Event Scoring is different as well I believe, which may have a bonus or adverse effect indirectly for some armies, but I have not taken a deep look at that.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Do the Facehammer guys offer any explanation of how they figure a free 150pts "fixes" Beasts of Chaos?
Sure, I'll take a free cockitrice or such.
I doubt my foes will appreciate that. I mean, they already don't like me summoning more of the things.... And it won't change how my iwn Beasts play (wich is just fine btw).
They do have a video where they discuss their comp pack, but I won’t watch it fully til after work tonight. I got to part of it where they explained that its just a “finger in the wind” and nothing really based on stats.
Maybe after I watch the vid I can get back to you, but I don’t think they claim it as a ‘fix”, just a little something extra for an army that has hisorically lagged in the tourney scene. Like I said, its a band-aid and pretty conservative. I think its their first crack at a comp pack.
Here’s the vid, if you’ve got the time:
Edit: they do answer some questions in the comments that are revealing, as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/13 12:42:18
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
NinthMusketeer wrote: I will never understand people's inability to get FEC to work when they have so many tools to do it.
Sort of agree.
Stas/mechanics look ok to me. Mechanicaly I should be fine. And I've used the Abhorrent Lord, the zombie dragon (no rider), the endless spells, and even a ×10 ghoul pack quite well in my 2e Grand Alliance: Death undead 1/2ling army.
But if you handed me even the best FEC list built with GW models?
I think I'd do poorly with it.
Why? Because there's only like 2 or 3 models in the FEC range I like (the 2 ghoul lords themselves & the endless spells).
And I've always found that how well I do with a force has as much to do with playing with models I like as it does actual rules.
The only GWFECmodel in my GA: Death army - the Corpsemare endless spell.
So maybe others have this going on as well - and don't realize it. (And some don't play in circles where they could even fix it if the did realize it.)
They love the lore, they're good with the rules.
But subconsciously, when it comes to the models on the table.... :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/14 16:58:41
of an enemy model have a minus 1 to shooting unless using a pistol.
thats actually a semi-interesting idea.
