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3d printing custom models in 40K is OK?
Print me up Scotty!
Not now, not ever - GW originals, all night, all day!

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Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

I was listening to a Youtube content creator as I worked on a project, today. The first video that played involved GW taking down an eBay auction posted by a different content creator who does painting tutorials and who had printed a giant model (meaning, a fantasy giant humanoid, in this case a large cyclops) that is NOT a copy of a GW model. The painter suggested that the model could be used in AoS and similar games. GW forced the removal of the auction due to intellectual property complaints. A few videos after that one described the differences between 3d printed and GW original models. Lots of custom models that looked very good, and that cost a LOT less to print. Some of them looked better to me than the GW originals.

Personally, I would have no trouble playing against the 3d printed versions that were shown on the videos. I have not (yet) purchased a 3d printer, but... I am seeing less and less reason not to do so.

Here is a simple poll. Maybe this has been done, before, but I am asking simply if 3d printing is cool specifically in the context of 40K, meaning that you would have no problems playing against and/or collecting 3d printed models, perhaps doing so yourself with your own printer at some point if not doing so already. If not OK, why not? If OK, are you using custom prints already?

Again, there is some discussion ongoing on Dakka about this topic. If this thread is a double of another ongoing thread, please let me know and maybe a MOD should delete this one.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 16:21:53


   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





I think using 3D prints in 40K is fine, as long as the 3D print isn't a direct copy of a GW model. It's the same as using third party miniatures to play GW games.

Of course if you use non GW miniatures at GW events or stores then (I think quite rightly) the store owner should tell you not to use them, only GW miniatures are allowed. That doesn't mean you can't use them elsewhere though.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I like miniatures. When I like a miniature, i'll evaluate how much I'm willing to spend on it. Sometimes GW offers me stuff that I like for prices that I can accept. Others time they don't.

I don't have any kind of moral approach to this outside recasts.

3D printing, even if is people basically making "not-X" , they are making it from scratch so, as I said, if its something I like for a price I feel acceptable I'll pay it if I really want it. Playing is not a problem because here we don't have GW stores or GW tournaments.

That example you use if I remember correctly (The giant ebay listing) was because the title of the actuion wasn't clear enough about not being a proper GW model.

The truth here of course is that GW is a company and will do crazy stuff for us as customers with no kind of consistence. Thats how they work. I don't understand people that spends hours and days trying to make sense or arguing about this. So much mental energy spend in pointless discussion, unless you are a GW investor or someone related to those fields.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 16:39:17


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Crazed Troll Slayer




Charlotte, NC

I am climbing into the same boat with you Jeff.
Over the past two months, I have been impressed by what I have been seeing in 3D printing, almost daily. Likewise I am liking less and less of GW's products on an aesthetic level, among other issues, for years. There will be a shift with me at some point and that may be sooner rather than later.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






It's not a black and white issue, hence why I think a poll is a bad idea.
The specific instance you mention jeff, IIRC was due to the creator of the 3d model specifically marketing their model as a GW product, i.e. using a GW copyrighted term. If an individual is using those specific terms and has their product taken down, then it's their fault. They knew they were using specific words in order to get traction via search functions, it's why clickbait videos and accounts use loads of completely random hashtags and keywords. If instead the product is marketed as "Super-Giant for 28mm Heroic Fantasy Wargames", then there's not an issue. If it's just for you, then again no issues unless you rock up to a GW-sponsored event or location, then obviously that's on you if you get told not to use it.
I've seen good 3d prints and I've seen bad 3d prints. My friend owns one and has printed me some Mantis Warrior shoulder pads before. He also always has it on when we have gaming nights and it is extremely loud over voice chat.
The one thing that really ticks me off is how if you disagree that 3d printing is God's gift to the world, people tend to jump down your throat and act as if you've broken their legs and taken all their money.
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





People should be able to make and sell what they want. Including direct copies of GW models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 17:41:33



 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




If something increases the fun of the other player without it lessening my fun, it's fine by me. There is no one else involved in our game to care about.
This means it's absolutely fine by me if the other player uses self printed miniatures or anything else not sold by GW. I've seen several of these I like better than the respective GW miniature to use as representation for a data sheet on the table.

Myself I have and used two 40k miniatures printed by a friend, several weapons I use for original GW miniatures and some 40k miniatures produced by "Wargames Exclusive".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 17:49:21


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You can't list your models as GW models (or AOS, or 40k models) if they aren't. That's why that listing got pulled, and that's sensible consumer protection.

On the other hand, it's perfectly legal and legit to list a model as "40k compatible" or "alternative AOS model" or something like that, assuming the model itself isn't infringe, which they very rarely do unless they're an actual copy.

I certainly have no problem with people playing with alternative models, as long as they're cool and show an equivalent amount of effort to buying the GW ones. I.e. I'm not so hot on a coffee mug standing in for a tank, but if you have a 3D printed alternative Rhino that looks cool...go for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
It's not a black and white issue, hence why I think a poll is a bad idea.
The specific instance you mention jeff, IIRC was due to the creator of the 3d model specifically marketing their model as a GW product, i.e. using a GW copyrighted term. If an individual is using those specific terms and has their product taken down, then it's their fault. They knew they were using specific words in order to get traction via search functions, it's why clickbait videos and accounts use loads of completely random hashtags and keywords. If instead the product is marketed as "Super-Giant for 28mm Heroic Fantasy Wargames", then there's not an issue.


You can't copyright a term or a specific word. That's a trademark. And people are perfectly free to use your trademarks while advertising their own product, as long as it's clear their product isn't being claimed to be your product. I.e. "Tastes better than coca cola (TM)" is fine, just like an ebay listing for "alternative AOS giant model" would be fine.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 17:55:16


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Sim-Life wrote:People should be able to make and sell what they want. Including direct copies of GW models.
Make, maybe. Producing and selling a carbon copy of someone else's work? Absolutely not.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Whatever their source, for whatever the game, I've got no qualms about using or playing against non-GW models. Never have, never will.
This extends to direct recasts & 3d prints of GW stuff.

   
Made in it
Focused Fire Warrior





ccs wrote:
Whatever their source, for whatever the game, I've got no qualms about using or playing against non-GW models. Never have, never will.
This extends to direct recasts & 3d prints of GW stuff.

This.
As long as I have fun in a tabletop game, I don't judge the models I'm playing against.
Official models, recasts and 3D prints all have their place on the tabletop.


 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







ccs wrote:
Whatever their source, for whatever the game, I've got no qualms about using or playing against non-GW models. Never have, never will.
This extends to direct recasts & 3d prints of GW stuff.


Same.

Personally I'm not interested in printing copies to save money, but I'm excited to print resculpts of OOP games like Man O War, Warmaster and BFG, and alternative sculpts if I like the design better than GW's, and most of all I love the massive offering of non GW related miniatures. It's no exaggeration to say that more miniatures get sculpted now each month than got sculpted in a year 10 years ago, possibly multiple years, in the whole hobby industry combined, and I can have any one I want in my hand within a day.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 18:56:00


Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

I did expect generally a warm reception to the idea, but am a bit surprised by the acceptance of direct copies of GW models that are not specifically OOP especially... As the OP, I am going to stay neutral on the idea for now. I am a bit surprised, but not going to say if that is happy surprise or moral abhorrence.

   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





I'm surprised that the mods aren't challenging/shutting down the endorsement of outright carbon copying.

3D printing is great, as are alternative designs and creating OOP or non-existent things, but that ain't the same as outright carbon copies.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 lord_blackfang wrote:
ccs wrote:
Whatever their source, for whatever the game, I've got no qualms about using or playing against non-GW models. Never have, never will.
This extends to direct recasts & 3d prints of GW stuff.


Same.

Personally I'm not interested in printing copies to save money, but I'm excited to print resculpts of OOP games like Man O War, Warmaster and BFG, and alternative sculpts if I like the design better than GW's, and most of all I love the massive offering of non GW related miniatures. It's no exaggeration to say that more miniatures get sculpted now each month than got sculpted in a year 10 years ago, possibly multiple years, in the whole hobby industry combined, and I can have any one I want in my hand within a day.


As far as saving $ with 3d printing? It'd definitely depend upon what the model is.
I'm not going to bother for a squad of new ork boyz. Or even lots of new ork boyz. I'll just buy the GW kits & if I see some alt sculpt I like for an individual I'll print that for some variety.
On the other hand there's no way in Hell I'm spending the $$$ FW wants for a Warlord Titan. So if I ever decide such a thing needs to be on the table I'd 100% 3d print it.
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






I printed/ordered prints of stuff that isn't produced for conversions (shotlas as alternative to lasguns, twin-multilasers for heavy weapons teams etc.) and am pretty happy with it as a collector. I would also not mind to play against something like that in a casual environment. I have to say though that I would find direct 1:1 copies of GW models a bit fishy and I myself would feel very uncomfortable bringing something like that to a game.

~5750 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Where's the "I don't care either way" option?

You can play with whatever models you want, as long as your opponent feels the same way. You just need to understand a few key things.

1. You wont be able to play with printed models at a Warhammer store or Warhammer sponsored event.

2. Printing your own models does not support your local gaming store, so don't be surprised if the gaming store staff gives you pushback for using their tables/space.

3. Some opponents that spend hundreds of dollars on GW models and armies may not want to play against your 3d printed armies. That's their opinion and their right.

As long as you keep those things in mind, do whatever you want.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I fall in the middle of the road. As long as the models look good I don't really care.

I mostly play in game stores so I support them if I can. But they can not order FW at a retail discount so I have no issue with getting recasts. And the same with conversion bits and random character models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 11:35:02


 
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Funny. Re Castus, then?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 21:43:48


   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Whilst mini printing is currently beyond my patience level if I did pick up 40k again it might be nice to have some CWE models designed this century

And so long as its more or less obvious what a printed model is meant to be I've got no issues of their use in any game

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 jeff white wrote:
I did expect generally a warm reception to the idea, but am a bit surprised by the acceptance of direct copies of GW models that are not specifically OOP especially... As the OP, I am going to stay neutral on the idea for now. I am a bit surprised, but not going to say if that is happy surprise or moral abhorrence.


I think there's a difference between playing against something and completely endorsing the concept of 3d printing carbon copies of models for an entire army.

I hope that enough people realize we have to support the company to keep the game going- otherwise we end up in a situation where the game just dies. All the pretty and cheap 3d prints aren't really going to make a difference if all development stops because the company breaks.

But if you show up with an army, provided it's not radioactive, I'll play against it.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





And that is one of the problems a lot of people gloss over. If no one buys the models then GW stops selling rules. I DO NOT seeing this happen soon but in five years it may be on the horizon.

Gaslands is a game that sells rulebooks and no models. KoW started as a way to sell rulebooks to use with GW models. Battletech would be happy to stick with 3D printed models and the same rules for another 30 years.

40K would never survive this environment. If you don't support it at all then don't complain when it's gone.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Veldrain wrote:
Battletech would be happy to stick with 3D printed models and the same rules for another 30 years.


You realize about 6 months back CGL issued a bucket load of C&D orders to people printing mechs right?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

It is not my duty as a customer to spend my money on a multimillion company and their investors, that mentality is the one that keeps people playing a game that they despise like WoW or heck, warhammer.

Its GW's interest as a company to offer me a product I want to invest money in. If it busts, it busts just like Kodak. Is a game, I'll find other uses for my miniatures, is not like losing the GW rulesets would be a real lose for anybody.

Others will come to take their place. Attempting to make the customers responsible for the future of a company is completely asinine. And trying to say that if they don't keep spending money even after spending hundreds allready they cannot complaint is even worse.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 23:09:15


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Galas wrote:
It is not my duty as a customer to spend my money on a multimillion company and their investors, that mentality is the one that keeps people playing a game that they despise like WoW or heck, warhammer.

Its GW's interest as a company to offer me a product I want to invest money in. If it busts, it busts just like Kodak. Is a game, I'll find other uses for my miniatures, is not like losing the GW rulesets would be a real lose for anybody.

Others will come to take their place.


nope, but if you don't buy something don't complain when it no longer exists. thats just common sense.

Your duty as a customer is simply to decide if the product is desirable eneugh to pay the asking price.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





BrianDavion wrote:
Veldrain wrote:
Battletech would be happy to stick with 3D printed models and the same rules for another 30 years.


You realize about 6 months back CGL issued a bucket load of C&D orders to people printing mechs right?


I did mistype that. Most Battletech players would be happy with the same rules if nothing new was ever released. Aside from historicals I can't think of a any other games that would stay going.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I haven't got a problem in the world playing against 3D printed models so long as they resemble the originals to the point where it's easy enough to tell what they are.

Eg: No Space marines at half the height

A local player 3D printed many of his Orc characters as the originals just looked terrible. His prints were awesome from a resin printer.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Veldrain wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Veldrain wrote:
Battletech would be happy to stick with 3D printed models and the same rules for another 30 years.


You realize about 6 months back CGL issued a bucket load of C&D orders to people printing mechs right?


I did mistype that. Most Battletech players would be happy with the same rules if nothing new was ever released. Aside from historicals I can't think of a any other games that would stay going.[/quote

I dunno man, I remember the absolute PANIC when FASA closed their doors

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/26 00:49:28


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I'm surprised that the mods aren't challenging/shutting down the endorsement of outright carbon copying.

3D printing is great, as are alternative designs and creating OOP or non-existent things, but that ain't the same as outright carbon copies.


god i language please WISH more people made OOP things....I've scrounged up basically everything that currently exists, but god DAMN i want muh inquisitor28 and oldcromunda models...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 11:34:02


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 the_scotsman wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I'm surprised that the mods aren't challenging/shutting down the endorsement of outright carbon copying.

3D printing is great, as are alternative designs and creating OOP or non-existent things, but that ain't the same as outright carbon copies.


god i language please WISH more people made OOP things....I've scrounged up basically everything that currently exists, but god DAMN i want muh inquisitor28 and oldcromunda models...


What is Inquisitor28?
Just a 28mm scale version of the old Inquisitor range? Or is it some specific figure?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 11:34:12


 
   
 
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