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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Before we get started, let me say that the below thread relates to friendly games only and not tournament play.

I'm a Craftworld Eldar player.

I know that I could win more games by playing mixed Aeldari, but I like the look and playstyle of Craftworld. Sue me!

I probably win 6 games out of 10 - Maybe 7, and that's enough for me.

I can't stand Facebook Eldar groups lately because it's nothing but whining about how Craftworld suck right now and they need a better codex.

Sure, their codex needs to be updated and brought inline with 9th edition (i.e. having D3+3 instead of D6 damage, etc) but other than that, it does not need 'updating'.

I understand that some codexes are in particular dire spots at the moment. Tau and GSC are probably the main two that spring to mind. Chaos is flirting with the line too. Those players have the right to complain about their codexes.

As for Imperial Guard, Eldar, Harlequins, Necrons (Yes Necrons with their 9th ed codex that still gets complaints) and others like them are in my humble opinion perfectly playable in a friendly gaming sense of the hobby.

I mean, come on, am I the only person that thinks a slightly better than 50/50 Win-Lose ratio is actually what the game should be promoting? Armies SHOULD NOT win 90+% of their games.

Final note: Please don't turn this into yet another thread about OP armies. Yes they exist. No they shouldn't.

My point here is simply that I'm just sick of people only having fun when they're winning games - like if you can't shoot your opponent off the table in two turns or less, the army is weak.
Some of the best games I have enjoyed were losses, and as it's a dice game, if you're not losing occasionally then something is off.

Rant over. Cue the pandemonium.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, if you win 6-7 out of 10 games with Craftworld, you're vastly overperforming for whatever reason.

Yes. You said no tournament, fair enough. But it does seem like your group/community/surroundings are fairly favourable to you, either playing armies matching well into you or being mostly weaker players then yourself or whatever.

Few people would complain winning 6-7 games, but that isn't the norm for Craftworld players at the moment. Winning 3-4 out of 10 is the global average for the data we have, and wanting to get the army to the 50/50 ratio you yourself promote doesn't seem like an unreasonable wish, no?


There is a logical fallacy in your argument where you have a highly unusual experience with Craftworlds and assume it to be the "norm", while simultaneously claiming other Craftworld players hoping/wishing for changes to promote a win rate BELOW the one you experience in your own, highly unusual local environment, are making unreasonable requests to perfom better then the outlier-performance you yourself experience.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/12 15:39:07


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I care less about winning every game and more about whether my units authentically feel like they play like theyre supposed to in the lore of the game world, and eldar do not.

supposedly lightning-fast ninja space elf warriors who trained in the blade while you dated make fewer attacks in melee than a lumbering monkeigh astartes holding a gigantic melta cannon.

Mono-molecular chainswords that cut effortlessly through steel have the same stats as lead pipes held by chaos cultists.

the mighty avatar of the bloody handed god loses in close combat to every no-name astartes captain OK that's pretty canon-accurate I'll admit it.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





I really kind of agree. A problem I think has popped up is that in their list for a powerful army, people have forgotten to ask for fun armies. Orks 9e dex might be more powerful, but the 8th one was 20 times more fun to run.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I don't understand the complaint. No one has ever advocated for 90% win-rates (?!) - people who 'care about winning', i.e. are upset about their army's overall place in the meta, are generally using factions with a much lower than 50% win-rate, which means their army is weak or can't function properly in the 9th edition ruleset. What's wrong with wanting your army to be properly balanced against others? Now, we all know that GW are terrible at balance and there's also the neverending carousel of 'new hotness' combined with codex creep, but that doesn't mean weaker factions' complaints are unjustified.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Twilight Pathways wrote:
I don't understand the complaint. No one has ever advocated for 90% win-rates (?!) - people who 'care about winning', i.e. are upset about their army's overall place in the meta, are generally using factions with a much lower than 50% win-rate, which means their army is weak or can't function properly in the 9th edition ruleset. What's wrong with wanting your army to be properly balanced against others? Now, we all know that GW are terrible at balance and there's also the neverending carousel of 'new hotness' combined with codex creep, but that doesn't mean weaker factions' complaints are unjustified.


Hey, maybe in closed eldar-player-only groups they advocate for 90% winrates being fair and the desired state you dont know.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

I want to know that I can win, if I'm clever enough, be able to identify mistakes I made if I lose, and be able to improve with practice.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 the_scotsman wrote:
I care less about winning every game and more about whether my units authentically feel like they play like theyre supposed to in the lore of the game world, and eldar do not.

supposedly lightning-fast ninja space elf warriors who trained in the blade while you dated make fewer attacks in melee than a lumbering monkeigh astartes holding a gigantic melta cannon.

Mono-molecular chainswords that cut effortlessly through steel have the same stats as lead pipes held by chaos cultists.

the mighty avatar of the bloody handed god loses in close combat to every no-name astartes captain OK that's pretty canon-accurate I'll admit it.


This post hits the nail on the head.

Honestly, I'd take a RETROGRADE for Guard (in terms of some design choices; e.g. I'd like to see a return to Platoons), and I don't even really care if they're winning (I'm building an Armageddon Steel Legion force right now, surely the most competitive list ever to grace the tables! )

But some of the changes they could put in the 9th edition codex would be super neat just from a narrative play perspective.

Regiment Types aren't a thing like they were back in the day (e.g. Mechanized, Armored, Artillery, Infantry, Siege) with all the boons and drawbacks thereof.

Regiment Homeworld matters too much imho (it used to be a kinda neat background thing while you played with Your Dudes, now it's the only way to differentiate). A Cadian Mechanized Infantry Company should be more different than a Cadian Artillery Company than it should be from a Valhallan Mechanized Company.

I could go on, but yeah.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Crafter91 wrote:
I probably win 6 games out of 10 - Maybe 7, and that's enough for me.

I can't stand Facebook Eldar groups lately because it's nothing but whining about how Craftworld suck right now and they need a better codex.

Do you think if you were winning 1 game out of 10 it'd be enough for you? The people that are complaining about Craftworlds being too weak are not winning over 50% of their games and are asking to get close to 50% win rate and not 90% win rate. Nobody wants Craftworlds to have a 90% win rate, you are arguing with a strawman, it's a logical fallacy. Try arguing against "Craftworlds should have a 50% win rate in competitive and casual play", not just for you, but on average for everyone. It's not about winning every game, it's about not having a 3-game losing streak too often and never having a 6-game losing streak.

One person doing well with Craftworlds does not prove anything, just like one player doing badly with Drukhari wouldn't prove a thing either. It might be your lists, luck or skills are superior to that of other Craftworlds players. The fact is that Craftworlds are doing poorly in competitive play, that's a better indication of the army's health in casual play than one person's experience.

I don't believe your next 100 games with the current Craftworlds codex will have over 60 wins, I don't even think you will play 100 more games with the current Craftworlds codex. What is your win rate based on? 20 games? How do you keep track of wins and losses? The original post is about as far from science as you can get. Do you think maybe it might set someone off just as much when you come through with your 70% win rate and tell the people with a 30% win rate that everything is fine just like it sets you off when people want Craftworlds to improve when you are already doing well with Craftworlds? If you're not just lucky or using relatively stronger lists than your opponents then maybe you could flood the Eldar pages with the tactics you are using to win battles instead of venting on Dakka about people venting on Facebook.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






again, a few things that have nothing to do with winrate:

-an ancient race with hyper-advanced technology whose species is actively dying and who are desperate to preserve themselves has the exact same defenses as the cheapest shoddiest slapped-together "armor" the imperium puts on their raw conscripts.

-each weapon used by that hyper-advanced high tech race is individually worse at its job than the equivalent weaponry used by the trillions-strong blunt force war machine of the imperium. A bright lance is a weaker lascannon. A starcannon is a weaker plasma cannon. A shuriken cannon is a MUCH weaker heavy bolter.


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

You forget that the advances of the aeldari are mainly in fashion and poetry.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






-All the hyper-specialized monastic aspect warriors who train in the perfection of the art of a single form of combat over multiple human lifespans are just gakky versions of a thing that either the adeptus astartes or the adeptus mechanicus have.

Swooping Hawks are gakky Pteraxii Skystalkers (which themselves are just gakky Pteraxii Sterylyzors lol)

Fire Dragons are gakky Eradicators

Howling Banshees are gakky Ruststalkers

Dire Avengers are gakky Skitarii Vanguard

Crimson Hunters are gakky Archaeopters

Striking Scorpions are gakky...god, Assault marines? Holy cow theyre bad lol. Ork Kommandos make them look like a JOKE model-for-model.

The only aspects that don't have a "this is them but better at their thing in every way" equivalent among the imperial forces are Shining Spears because the imperium doesnt have a dedicated fast-moving melee jetbike unit outside of like, custodes, and Warp Spiders because whoever designed codex SM and codex Admech wasn't brain damaged enough to think that a low rate of fire S6 AP- D1 unit had a "Role" to play in a game of 40k.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 the_scotsman wrote:
again, a few things that have nothing to do with winrate:

-an ancient race with hyper-advanced technology whose species is actively dying and who are desperate to preserve themselves has the exact same defenses as the cheapest shoddiest slapped-together "armor" the imperium puts on their raw conscripts.

-each weapon used by that hyper-advanced high tech race is individually worse at its job than the equivalent weaponry used by the trillions-strong blunt force war machine of the imperium. A bright lance is a weaker lascannon. A starcannon is a weaker plasma cannon. A shuriken cannon is a MUCH weaker heavy bolter.



This is why the current CSM rules make me mad. Ancient Chaos Space Marines, veterans of the Horus Heresy, living in the eye of terror, and infused with the powers of the dark gods are still 1 wound. 9th has been out for over a year now and it makes me not even want to take my CSM off the shelf seeing how pathetic their stats are. In the lore they should be just as good as any loyalist, but on the tabletop they are useless. All of the CSM lists that do decently in a tournament don't even take any marines, if they can help it.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

What, would you be afraid of a bunch of pensioners muttering through their false teeth about how the gov't screwed their pensions, armed and armoured with antiques and jugaad tat, or hotshot young punks armed and armoured in the best of His Majesty's Armoury?

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 Nurglitch wrote:
What, would you be afraid of a bunch of pensioners muttering through their false teeth about how the gov't screwed their pensions, armed and armoured with antiques and jugaad tat, or hotshot young punks armed and armoured in the best of His Majesty's Armoury?


the former, if they were also followers of lovecraftian gods beyond space and time who bore bulging eyes, tentacles, and a hatred for the living.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Not really.

By and large, 40K-community has grown MUCH more relaxed about this sort of thing.

10-odd years ago, people lost their goddamn mind at Mat Ward Grey Knights having an unprecedented, unholy 55%-win rate, predicting the imminent bankruptcy of GW.

These days, armies with 60-ish% win-rates barely get a shrug and 70-ish% win rates get some raised eyebrows and "GW better hurry up with the next update" at best.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Gotta agree here. I cannot quite pinpoint when exactly, but at some point between 5th and 8th edition (sat out 6 and 7) something had changed. It has infected 40k like a cancer, you can even see it in the nomenclature certain people use- the talk of winrates, referring to game as "matches" and the board as "the map". All of these are terms seen in MOBA/MMO talk and not seen in tabletop games until relatively recently. Sure, you heard things akin to "winrate" in the past, but not to the extent you see it now where tactics threads have simply devolved into "take these units n00b!". Even GW themselves are leaning into the skid with things like Killteam Arena, further hammering into new player's heads that this is the new normal.

Same with tournaments- they were a thing on the side for years, and now GW has 40k tournament edition. CA literally has "grand tournament" in its name, further painting the perception of how you are supposed to approach this game. 40k was never, ever like this prior to 8th edition. It was the beer and pretzels kickabout game. Then something happened. I don't know what, but something happened like a switch going off and armies in the past that would have gotten you ostracised as TFG and being a Beardy powergamer are now considered to be normal, and if you don't want to keep up then you get left in the dust as 40k is being warped into something it never was meant to be.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Sunny Side Up wrote:
 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Not really.

By and large, 40K-community has grown MUCH more relaxed about this sort of thing.

10-odd years ago, people lost their goddamn mind at Mat Ward Grey Knights having an unprecedented, unholy 55%-win rate, predicting the imminent bankruptcy of GW.


Yeah, and you know what the army-by-army play stats were for that tournament where GK 'only' had a 55% winrate?

GK, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, and Dark Eldar made up NINETY-TWO percent of the play meta combined. 38% of players at the tournament were playing Grey Knights.

EVERY OTHER ARMY COMBINED had 8% of the play meta.

Win % isnt the only thing that measures game health my dude. Remember how when space marines were super OP they had way lower win pct than Drukhari do now? It's because 66% of people were playing space marines at the tournament....Youre gonna get a lower winrate if literally everyone is bringing the game army, lol.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in ie
Ship's Officer





 Grimtuff wrote:
 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Gotta agree here. I cannot quite pinpoint when exactly, but at some point between 5th and 8th edition (sat out 6 and 7) something had changed.


Web 2.0 made the setting more popular in the U.S. and they brought their over-competitiveness with them. The U.S has the biggest tournaments with the biggest prizes with the biggest attendance and is the biggest market for the game. America is so hugely the prevalent culture online that it inevitably consumes everything it takes part in and whether they like it or not America as a culture is VERY competitive.


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Sim-Life wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Gotta agree here. I cannot quite pinpoint when exactly, but at some point between 5th and 8th edition (sat out 6 and 7) something had changed.


Web 2.0 made the setting more popular in the U.S. and they brought their over-competitiveness with them. The U.S has the biggest tournaments with the biggest prizes with the biggest attendance and is the biggest market for the game. America is so hugely the prevalent culture online that it inevitably consumes everything it takes part in and whether they like it or not America as a culture is VERY competitive.


...which is funny because I, as an american, am frequently just shaking my head and laughing when I hear about how miserable the state of play is in various other countries like to throw out a random example I dont know poland.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in ie
Ship's Officer





 the_scotsman wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Gotta agree here. I cannot quite pinpoint when exactly, but at some point between 5th and 8th edition (sat out 6 and 7) something had changed.


Web 2.0 made the setting more popular in the U.S. and they brought their over-competitiveness with them. The U.S has the biggest tournaments with the biggest prizes with the biggest attendance and is the biggest market for the game. America is so hugely the prevalent culture online that it inevitably consumes everything it takes part in and whether they like it or not America as a culture is VERY competitive.


...which is funny because I, as an american, am frequently just shaking my head and laughing when I hear about how miserable the state of play is in various other countries like to throw out a random example I dont know poland.


Karol isn't here anymore though.


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 Sim-Life wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Gotta agree here. I cannot quite pinpoint when exactly, but at some point between 5th and 8th edition (sat out 6 and 7) something had changed.


Web 2.0 made the setting more popular in the U.S. and they brought their over-competitiveness with them. The U.S has the biggest tournaments with the biggest prizes with the biggest attendance and is the biggest market for the game. America is so hugely the prevalent culture online that it inevitably consumes everything it takes part in and whether they like it or not America as a culture is VERY competitive.


...which is funny because I, as an american, am frequently just shaking my head and laughing when I hear about how miserable the state of play is in various other countries like to throw out a random example I dont know poland.


Karol isn't here anymore though.


Do we know what happened? Is he going to come back?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Sim-Life wrote:

Karol isn't here anymore though.


What did I miss?

   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

I could honestly give two gaks about winning or losing. All I care about is does army play the way I want it to & is cinematic gak happening on the table.
Let the dice tell the story.




oni wrote:It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Cancer would be an improvement...it's more like a highly dangerous virus that preys on the inadequacies of self-thought vs group-think.

40k is a terrible competitive game so playing it competitively leads to terrible experiences. I.E. complaining about not winning enuff, needing X # of unit Y so they can crush their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women, etc...
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I think people like erecting this paper tiger about competitive players. There's a difference between "Competitive" players and "competitive" players. The latter exists in every group. The former are people who go to tournaments. People can be gakky regardless of how they play, but all of my 6 opponents this past weekend were great.

   
Made in ie
Ship's Officer





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:

Karol isn't here anymore though.


What did I miss?


Dunno. I just noticed he's stopped posting. Maybe he finally quit the game?


 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Racerguy180 wrote:
I could honestly give two gaks about winning or losing. All I care about is does army play the way I want it to & is cinematic gak happening on the table.
Let the dice tell the story.




oni wrote:It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!


Cancer would be an improvement...it's more like a highly dangerous virus that preys on the inadequacies of self-thought vs group-think.

40k is a terrible competitive game so playing it competitively leads to terrible experiences. I.E. complaining about not winning enuff, needing X # of unit Y so they can crush their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women, etc...


Feh. I think the group-think is the 'competitive players are terrible people who ruin everything.'
Its infesting a lot of discussion lately with only the most tangential relationship to the actual topics- and a rant about what some players are saying on a random Facebook group isn't a good one.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Vancouver, BC

Would people apply these same ideas to a game like Chess? How about something like Starcraft?

40k should be a robust enough game to allow for competitive play. If it isn't that's not the fault of the players but of GW.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 oni wrote:
It's an issue stemming from the competitive community. Their highly competitive WAAC nature is like cancer spreading and making the entire organism sick.

W40K isn't a casual game anymore, it's a highly competitive E-sport. If you're not competing, you're training to compete. Get good n00b!
Maybe in your area, but not mine. We've got a few tournament players, and they're still great people. If they play someone who's not tournament level, they'll tone down their lists, or make it clear "I want to practice for a tournament, so I'm gonna bring a hard list and do my damndest."

Most of us just play for fun.

To the OP:

You're winning more than half your games. You're already doing far better than Eldar in tournaments. For the vast majority of people, it's not "I want to win every single game, and if I can't, I quit!" it's "I'm gonna try to win every game, and I'd like to win a decent chunk, but having fun is what matters most."

For me, the biggest thing is not losing-it's feeling like I had no chance to win. If I play a game and I make a mistake, or the dice go cold, or whatever, and I get my tuckus handed to me... That's okay. I can see what I could've done better, or I can know that if I had made that one 5" charge I'd've probably won. It's only when I look at the game and think "I played as well as I could've. The dice were fine. And I still lost, and lost bad," that I get discouraged.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
 
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