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[Tau] How can they be fixed for 9ed? What are your hopes for the new book?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Sounds like we are getting a new Codex next year, but how would -you- all fix Tau to be able to reasonably play the mission in 9th Edition?

My take:

Tau need to avoid the worst extremes of the triptide drone castle nonsense from previous eras and return to 'highly mobile fire teams' in the lore. They need to be able to compete with the other armies over objectives and not have the 'best' builds be immobile gunlines (boring!)

+Crisis Suits could be troops, and able to be the core of your army if you want
+Jump Shoot Jump or similar should be a thing. IF we don't have any possible melee and psychic options then we need something to counterbalance those gaps
+Assault Transports / Fish of Fury: having a ton of transports running around disgorging fragile breachers for point blank shenanigans (but how do we make this distinct from Druks?)
+Melee Crisis Suits: There's no reason anime gundam suits shouldn't have big 'ole laser swords to help compete in the 9th era

I think it would just be more 'fun' for both Tau players and opponents if we had more opportunities to play to the 9th edition ruleset and get in there and mix it up instead of the old giant drone castle builds.

What are you all's hopes for the new Tau Codex?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/18 23:51:14


 
   
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Like you said, the ability to not be useless in melee would go a long way. That plus some more durability would mean Tau could actually play the objectives without being brushed off.
   
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They need a new book honestly. They are broke at many fundamental levels. 1 being the only play in 1 phase of the game for start.

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 Amishprn86 wrote:
They need a new book honestly. They are broke at many fundamental levels. 1 being the only play in 1 phase of the game for start.


They are getting one of the first new codexes early next year along with csm, world eaters, emperor's children
   
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OneBoxForOptimism wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
They need a new book honestly. They are broke at many fundamental levels. 1 being the only play in 1 phase of the game for start.


They are getting one of the first new codexes early next year along with csm, world eaters, emperor's children


Yep.

I would rewrite the full book, that was my answer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/19 02:28:48


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Jump Shoot Jump, troop options for Crisis Suits, and assault transports are all things I would love to see.

I absolutely do not want melee suits. Melee goes totally against the T'au philosophy. If they want to add a melee presence for T'au it should be through auxiliaries.

The markerlight table really needs re-imagined, as well. If T'au only play in one phase they need to dominate that phase.
   
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 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Jump Shoot Jump, troop options for Crisis Suits, and assault transports are all things I would love to see.

I absolutely do not want melee suits. Melee goes totally against the T'au philosophy. If they want to add a melee presence for T'au it should be through auxiliaries.

The markerlight table really needs re-imagined, as well. If T'au only play in one phase they need to dominate that phase.


The problem is, you can not have an army dominate in the shooting phase only, the game doesn't work like that, you need movement, melee, objective holders, etc....

If you make shooting too strong its no fun, in 8th Tau was a negative play experience bc the only did 1 thing and made the opponent worst at doing it back to them which is not fun, there was no "trade" or "target priority" against Tau, just pick a spot and kill until all the stuff was gone and hope its enough not to get leaf blown off.

Tau has to change as a whole, they really should just be a Xeno's IG. Some movement tricks, good shooting, stable tanky units (IG needs to get fixed too in that regards) and some counter melee units with lots of screens and specialist shooting units (aka Suits). Kroot needs to be better rend and more attacks, more like slower, worst armor, but cheaper wyches as a counter melee, beachers should be able to take objectives easier, etc...

No more of this 1 phase bullcrap that everyone hates.

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Here is my problem. Most editions have a 3-4 year shelf life before a new edition comes out in 40k. That being said, I pity the people praying for new books in 2022. That's half or more of the way through the life of this edition. Then 10th roles out and BLAM, we are right back to square 1.

Just give Tau 2 wound troops laser swords that wound infantry on 3+ and call it good. They haven't been allowed to play in over 3 years, and this is silly that we are still being sold this line of "buy Tau now, they are getting a new codex by December 2022!
   
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 Amishprn86 wrote:

Tau has to change as a whole, they really should just be a Xeno's IG. Some movement tricks, good shooting, stable tanky units (IG needs to get fixed too in that regards) and some counter melee units with lots of screens and specialist shooting units (aka Suits). Kroot needs to be better rend and more attacks, more like slower, worst armor, but cheaper wyches as a counter melee, beachers should be able to take objectives easier, etc...

No more of this 1 phase bullcrap that everyone hates.


^^ I mean Tau literally can't kill Ghazghkull or a Nightbringer right now in less than what, 3-4 turns? They tear up your entire lineup by then.

And right, I think the 'goal' would ideally be to give them a fun range of options and builds that can compete in multiple phases of the game without being reduced to one route of list building.

I don't need them to be the best at melee by a long shot, it shouldn't be their specialty, but if we are making 3/4 of their lineup based on giant anime robots it would seem pretty silly not to include things that 90% of giant anime robots have (melee weapons). Most every other army in the game can kit out some of their elites for respectable melee.

   
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OneBoxForOptimism wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:

Tau has to change as a whole, they really should just be a Xeno's IG. Some movement tricks, good shooting, stable tanky units (IG needs to get fixed too in that regards) and some counter melee units with lots of screens and specialist shooting units (aka Suits). Kroot needs to be better rend and more attacks, more like slower, worst armor, but cheaper wyches as a counter melee, beachers should be able to take objectives easier, etc...

No more of this 1 phase bullcrap that everyone hates.


^^ I mean Tau literally can't kill Ghazghkull or a Nightbringer right now in less than what, 3-4 turns? They tear up your entire lineup by then.


Are there Ork Lists even taking Ghazghkull right now?

My thoughts would be to finally make Carbines hopefully useful for their position to allow for them to have some more mobile firewarriors that can claim objectives better.
   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Are there Ork Lists even taking Ghazghkull right now?

My thoughts would be to finally make Carbines hopefully useful for their position to allow for them to have some more mobile firewarriors that can claim objectives better.



Well maybe more Necrons, but more to illustrate how silly it is we can't compete in other phases.

I like better carbines, I'm always just wondering how they are going to possibly overtune some of the shooting weapons without fixing some of the underlying weaknesses of the army. I think what we don't want is just OP shooting across the board? Think of all those tourney winning admech lists and the recent ork shenannigans and how nuts that stuff was.
   
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Just improve Kroot and maybe allow Carbines to be used as pistols in melee and Suits may fire their weapons in melee like vehicles with a -1. Maybe add some debuff from sniper drones and pathfinders to melee units.
In 7th Tau had some not-psychic powers as their specialist systems, maybe bring back some of these.

Basically it's cool that for once CC is actually pretty useful (hasn't been the case since what, 4th edition?) and the gunline armies can't just blast away. But I agree that they need a little help in return.
   
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Personally, I have a feeling that:

- All pulse weapons will be AP-1.
- All battlesuits and vehicles will be BS3+
- All infantry (except infantry characters) will be BS4+
- Kroot and Vespid will be cheaper or better.
- Pathfinders will have their markerlights made assault.
- Markerlight system will be drastically changed. Either simplified (easier to get benefits), or more dynamic (old counter system).
- Darksider can be taken by any Tau Sept.
- XV8 Bodyguards will get the bodyguard ability like Celestians.
- Regular XV8 suits will be troops.
- Drones will have their Saviour Protocols removed.
- Things like Kauyon and Mont’ka will be activated in the command phase, every battle round like Doctrina.
   
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OneBoxForOptimism wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:

Tau has to change as a whole, they really should just be a Xeno's IG. Some movement tricks, good shooting, stable tanky units (IG needs to get fixed too in that regards) and some counter melee units with lots of screens and specialist shooting units (aka Suits). Kroot needs to be better rend and more attacks, more like slower, worst armor, but cheaper wyches as a counter melee, beachers should be able to take objectives easier, etc...

No more of this 1 phase bullcrap that everyone hates.


^^ I mean Tau literally can't kill Ghazghkull or a Nightbringer right now in less than what, 3-4 turns? They tear up your entire lineup by then.

And right, I think the 'goal' would ideally be to give them a fun range of options and builds that can compete in multiple phases of the game without being reduced to one route of list building.

I don't need them to be the best at melee by a long shot, it shouldn't be their specialty, but if we are making 3/4 of their lineup based on giant anime robots it would seem pretty silly not to include things that 90% of giant anime robots have (melee weapons). Most every other army in the game can kit out some of their elites for respectable melee.



Yeah its a problem bc the army fundamentally doesn't work, bc it was built like gak to play in 1 phase, hence my point about NO DOING NOT.

I also agree, why TF does big Gundam robots not have a melee option?! lol

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OneBoxForOptimism wrote:
+Crisis Suits could be troops, and able to be the core of your army if you want
What role would Firewarriors or Kroot play then?
   
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I am expecting drones to be rolled back into units like pre-8th instead of being split off after deployment - fixes easy unit kills (currently only need to kill 2 drones to set off competitive streak, etc) and the worst excesses of Saviour protocols.

It would also effectively remove saviour protocols as a thing (except maybe as a stratagem for tactical drone squadrons).

I am hoping for being able to use guns in melee, either using BS-1 or WS.
   
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Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mud Turkey 13 wrote:Jump Shoot Jump, troop options for Crisis Suits, and assault transports are all things I would love to see.

I absolutely do not want melee suits. Melee goes totally against the T'au philosophy. If they want to add a melee presence for T'au it should be through auxiliaries.

The markerlight table really needs re-imagined, as well. If T'au only play in one phase they need to dominate that phase.


Good points.

Amishprn86 wrote:Tau has to change as a whole, they really should just be a Xeno's IG. Some movement tricks, good shooting, stable tanky units (IG needs to get fixed too in that regards) and some counter melee units with lots of screens and specialist shooting units (aka Suits). Kroot needs to be better rend and more attacks, more like slower, worst armor, but cheaper wyches as a counter melee, beachers should be able to take objectives easier, etc...

No more of this 1 phase bullcrap that everyone hates.


Tau should be Xenos AdMech, in my purview.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/23 20:55:06


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I'm not as tuned into the meta as many of you but it seems like right now there is a codex push for more of a playstyle with carefully choosing overlapping auras and using special characters to overcharge a few units when the time is right to turn them into blenders. Look at the new Black Templar book where a few of the special characters and relics hypercharge a few things into absolute monsters. This sort of thing -could- be really cool with Tau? I dunno. I'm sure all the book decision have already been made.

The new rules/codexes for the other races lately seem to be much more interesting and dare I say reasonably balanced than the last few batches though, so I've got hope. Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, etc. I really like how the TS and GK look and play on the table right now, very theme appropriate and interesting imo. I want the same for Tau!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/19 15:39:12


 
   
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Awesome fix list that will never happen

1. Every command phase set the order in which you will complete the remianing phases. Allowing them their entire shooting phase before their movement phase. Blast things off objectives and then move onto them.

2. Railguns get damage increases based on size and ignore "can only take X wounds per phase rules"

3. Kroot can pay for mutations from the old kroot mercenaries list (+1 toughness, wings etc)

4. Can disembark from devilfish after moving

5. Crisis suit loadouts are chosen at the start of the game from reinforcement points and not at list creation.

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I know that if I were going to design an army around the concept of only having guns they'd mostly have pistols on fast mobile platforms. The problem is that Tau have multiple releases worth of Xenos Guard immobile backline shooting that still need to have rules of some kind.
   
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 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

I absolutely do not want melee suits. Melee goes totally against the T'au philosophy. If they want to add a melee presence for T'au it should be through auxiliaries.


What would you think of them using their guns as melee? Like giving "Pulse rifle butt" a weapon profile? Or perhaps a rule that lets them treat close combat as another shooting phase, a-la Gun Fu
   
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Honestly want to start a poll to see how many people here think GW is going to radically alter 9th to the benefit of it's worst selling faction.

Some of the ideas here have merit, and some are....well, bad.

They are not giving Tau the ability to alter phases, or shoot in melee with their rifles, or even giving them a half way decent melee ability. They are a poorly designed faction that is suffering from Edition cancer. You can't make them viable in 9th. Just like Knights and other super shooting focused armies.
   
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General Ideas
Pulse becomes Ap-1
Plasma D2
Pulse Carbines become Assault 3
Hammerhead Railguns Heavy D3, Damage D3+3
Seeker Missiles brought up to Hunter-Killer stats
Destroyer Missiles become HKs with D6

Detailed Ideas
Markerlights return to the "counter system" used previously.
All Battlesuits become BS3+ default
Saviour Protocols needs nerfing/readjusting
ATS becomes "count as 1 extra Markerlight"
Kroot gain +1A
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Honestly want to start a poll to see how many people here think GW is going to radically alter 9th to the benefit of it's worst selling faction.


How do we know Tau are the worst-selling faction? I thought they moved plenty of models? It's not really germane to the topic of -how- they should be fixed, though

How would you make their current lineup better without altering overall 9th?
   
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What if they gave all Kroot units scout, and maybe reduced their points by a bit or improved their melee by a tiny amount too?

EDIT: D'oh, they have scout. Take it from someone who doesn't play against them often.

So....

Add 1 AP to the melee weapon and 1 Attack per model. Where does that get them?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/20 07:04:26


 
   
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Any faction that is not able to melee in death are well....suffering like a melee army vs tau in 7th. The pendulum has swung the other way, and it hurts. I just don't see GW deciding in the middle of an edition to radically re-design how one faction plays the game.
   
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I just don't see GW deciding in the middle of an edition to radically re-design how one faction plays the game.

Its more than that. GW has a thing about a factions core identity and (assuming non-Space Marines) 'uniqueness.' It would take a HUGE upheaval in the studio for them to change such a big part of the core identity of an army.

I don't necessarily agree that they shouldn't, but I don't see them making this kind of jump. Ever

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/20 02:48:03


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Absolutely give Tau melee options, but it should be part of their weapon systems. We know they are not getting new models outside of Dark Strider, so new melee Tau ain't happening. But there is no reason that you couldn't be able to upgrade dual fusion guns to be Fusion Blades instead of it being purely a relic. Crisis suits should be decent in melee, not blenders, just decent. If we're advancing the timeline, let them be able to handle things at close range because of necessity.
   
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 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Jump Shoot Jump, troop options for Crisis Suits, and assault transports are all things I would love to see.

I absolutely do not want melee suits. Melee goes totally against the T'au philosophy. If they want to add a melee presence for T'au it should be through auxiliaries.

The markerlight table really needs re-imagined, as well. If T'au only play in one phase they need to dominate that phase.


Have yet to see game where move shoot move doesn't a) break game b) lead to npe.

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Speaking as a non-tau player.
I would really like to see a greater focus on auxiliaries. I get that some people just like battlesuits, and that's cool, but I really want to see more of a diverse tau army that. The tau weaknesses should be covered by their auxiliaries strengths and vice versa in a meaningful way.
Ive seen nothing but drones, battlesuits and firewarriors for years.
Where's the other species indoctrinated/coerced/sucked-in by "the greater good"?

By all means, let the mech heads have their suits, but give the people who want to build a dark federation a horse in the race too.
   
 
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