Switch Theme:

The Balance Pass and upcoming Balance Update.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

This change is mainly aimed at armies looking to take dragons exclusively, in order to make these gorgeous miniatures as fun to play against as they are to look at. Those of you who run Stormcast Eternals forces with a mix of units shouldn’t feel a huge impact, but if you do take an all-dragon army, you can pack in eight Stormdrake Guard in a 2,000-point list with Krondys, or nine with a Drakespawn Templar on Stardrake, and a still-impressive 10 if led by a Knight-Draconis.

2x Stormdrake Guard = 340 (formerly 285)
Knight-Draconis = 300 (formerly 255)
1x Stormdrake Guard = 170 (formerly 145)

“As you can imagine, the pandemic caused numerous challenges, not least the unexpected delays on new releases,” explains the Age of Sigmar team. “We decided to make the best of the delayed release of the Stormdrake Guard by running additional playtesting to make sure they entered the competitive landscape at an appropriate level.

“They are very exciting to play with – incredibly mobile, with powerful shooting and great “alpha strike” potential, and these strengths are amplified in an all-Stormdrake roster. Our team tested these focused lists against many competitive rosters, and we found that when the dice fell in their favour, Stormdrakes were too dominant. We have proactively adjusted their points cost to more accurately reflect the impact they can have on the table, while preserving the flexibility in list-building.“


First off, “nerfing” something before its even released is a pretty decent move on their part. Thats a new one, I think.

Secondly, to my untrained eye (haven’t faced an all dragon army yet) seems to be a fairly even update. Didn’t make them unusable, but also made an impactful point cost. I think they’ll still be powerful in the right hands.

And now to my favorite part of the post :

The Warhammer Studio has also been working on a Balance Update much like the recent Warhammer 40,000 Balance Dataslate. This is expected to land in December, with a focus on boosting units that currently aren’t seeing quite so much play on the tabletop.


Somewhat excited for this, as the language of it implies they are looking at bottom tier stuff to boost, rather than a focus on bringing down the top tier. Currently building a Nighthaunt army, so I’m eager to see what they get. Also have a decent amount of Tzaangor mini’s that I need motivation to paint. And I’m rebuilding my Fyreslayers, slowly but surely as well. Wonder if I’ll get any hotness for any of them.

What’s everyone else hoping that they focus on?




"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





bit of a suprise, but at the same time hats off to GW, I imagine they would have been tempted to wait until a week or two after the minis came out to do this

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

A proactive move was a most welcome surprise. Any help for my poor gobbos would be nice.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

If they could make my troggoths score as 2... That'd be great.

For the KO, I don't know exactly. Things seem okay but just a bit lacklustre for their cost. The 40k dataslate wasnt a points update so much though so probably just have to see what the next ghb has.

If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'


yeah and the real nice thing about it is they did it BEFORE the mini's launched and where upfront about doing it so that SCE players could know how many to buy. I mean if GW was as bad as some of the cynics claimed they woulda waited till AFTER pre-orders

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 rahxephon wrote:
If they could make my troggoths score as 2... That'd be great.


As someone who's just finishing painting an all Troggoth army: Yes! Also please make my dankholds monsters.

Though honestly there's so much that needs work in Gitz I'm not holding out hope of too much changing until a new tome drops.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






BrianDavion wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'


yeah and the real nice thing about it is they did it BEFORE the mini's launched and where upfront about doing it so that SCE players could know how many to buy. I mean if GW was as bad as some of the cynics claimed they woulda waited till AFTER pre-orders
Good point.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'


yeah and the real nice thing about it is they did it BEFORE the mini's launched and where upfront about doing it so that SCE players could know how many to buy. I mean if GW was as bad as some of the cynics claimed they woulda waited till AFTER pre-orders
Good point.


Maybe they are taking feedback more readily now.
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

BrianDavion wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'


yeah and the real nice thing about it is they did it BEFORE the mini's launched and where upfront about doing it so that SCE players could know how many to buy. I mean if GW was as bad as some of the cynics claimed they woulda waited till AFTER pre-orders

First time for everything, right?

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

I mean even with the points changes, I still plan on picking up the same number of Dragons as I was before. It's good they're taking a bit of a premptive strike here though.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





BrianDavion wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'


yeah and the real nice thing about it is they did it BEFORE the mini's launched and where upfront about doing it so that SCE players could know how many to buy. I mean if GW was as bad as some of the cynics claimed they woulda waited till AFTER pre-orders

The models were delayed by quite a while. It's just a fluke of shipping being a messed that their most OP units were stuck in a container somewhere.

It shows how low the bar is that people are clapping so hard about this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/22 10:03:23


 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Yeah that's right. We're clapping so hard by saying... Hey, good call GW to use the extra time to adjust points values on this model.

Instead we should just keep moaning about everything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/22 14:50:09


 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Thadin wrote:
Yeah that's right. We're clapping so hard by saying... Hey, good call GW to use the extra time to adjust points values on this model.

Instead we should just keep moaning about everything.


I know right, how dare we give credit where it's due!

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Seriously. No one is exclaiming that all is forgiven, that it's totally fine for GW to put out broken units with the intent of fixing them later, or that balance is suddenly going to be fixed. People are saying 'hey, GW made an effort to fix a mistake faster and more thoroughly than they previously have, this is a good improvement.'

If a person or entity improves on something and the only response is ceaseless bitching that just sends the message they shouldn't have bothered.

And on an individual level it devalues one's own opinion; if someone will complain about what GW does no matter what it is, then their criticism becomes meaningless. GW does a bad thing? Black knights complain. GW does a good thing? Black knights complain. The reaction is detached and so no longer has any value.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/22 22:39:30


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Having seen the points on those dragons before their change I could only not even shake my head and lol at how anyone could take that seriously. So - good on them for "fixing them". (because I don't know what the new point value is so have no idea if its "fixed")

I did for realz nod at the "we also realize its important that these are fun to play AGAINST" since while its fun to field 6000 or so points of an army masquerading as 2000 points, its not much fun on the other side of the table.

However I will shake my head and lol at "balance pass" written by anyone at games workshop in general.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Arbitrator wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Very happy they are making notable steps to improve balance. I still remember seeing the dragon's point cost and being like 'alright, seems a bit pricey but they do have-- wait that's for TWO!?'


yeah and the real nice thing about it is they did it BEFORE the mini's launched and where upfront about doing it so that SCE players could know how many to buy. I mean if GW was as bad as some of the cynics claimed they woulda waited till AFTER pre-orders

The models were delayed by quite a while. It's just a fluke of shipping being a messed that their most OP units were stuck in a container somewhere.

It shows how low the bar is that people are clapping so hard about this.



If their original plan was to sell them as OP and then adjust...you realize right they could still have done it? Lol. Or do you think they were FORCED to release this article right now? Lol at some conspiracy theories.

2022 painted/bought: 38/38 
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Seriously. No one is exclaiming that all is forgiven, that it's totally fine for GW to put out broken units with the intent of fixing them later, or that balance is suddenly going to be fixed. People are saying 'hey, GW made an effort to fix a mistake faster and more thoroughly than they previously have, this is a good improvement.'

If a person or entity improves on something and the only response is ceaseless bitching that just sends the message they shouldn't have bothered.

And on an individual level it devalues one's own opinion; if someone will complain about what GW does no matter what it is, then their criticism becomes meaningless. GW does a bad thing? Black knights complain. GW does a good thing? Black knights complain. The reaction is detached and so no longer has any value.


Well said.

 auticus wrote:
Having seen the points on those dragons before their change I could only not even shake my head and lol at how anyone could take that seriously. So - good on them for "fixing them". (because I don't know what the new point value is so have no idea if its "fixed")

I did for realz nod at the "we also realize its important that these are fun to play AGAINST" since while its fun to field 6000 or so points of an army masquerading as 2000 points, its not much fun on the other side of the table.

However I will shake my head and lol at "balance pass" written by anyone at games workshop in general.


Why, don't they frequently give balance a pass at Games Workshop?

But yeah, since GW went full steam down the Combohammer path I never got the impression that GW's designers really considered how people on the receiving end felt about the bigger performance spikes that hit their armies. Both nope moments significantly decreasing their own abilities and things like letting units attack twice on a whim seemed to speak of a total disregard for the fun of one half of the players. I wish they reined that nonsense in. And because this is an AoS thread and we know how inevitable the following is, yes, that includes double turn. But let's try and not have that discussion derail the thread, please.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/23 10:22:38


Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

more like it was always planned to release this now

but the department doing those things did not cared and just went with the original timeframe (or not even talked to the other department if the original dates are still valid)

GW is a big corporation and every department doing their own thing is normal up to a point.

thinking that GW did not catch the problems while writing the original rules but did realise it later because the models were not released so they had time to play games,
how stupid do you think the designers are?


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





ah yes. That same department also then also includes references to current. They CLEARLY wrote everything in advance predicting future and now text came out automated...

Sheesh. Lol. Some people just have to complain for sake of complaining.

That article wasn't written months ago.

And btw gw doesn't have multiple teams that change points not talking to each other...they change points, changes come from same team.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/23 11:03:51


2022 painted/bought: 38/38 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

The one team that forgot to talk to itself back than when they put different points for Orcs in the Codex and CA that was released at the same time and did not realised that they changed the values themselve

But I guess they have learned by now and those writing the Books are now the same people doing balance changes and the same people playing the games for battle reports


It is not about that this specific article was written in advance but that the balance adjustment was always planned to be 6 months after release and not postponed just because the models were not out and people not able to play

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






I'm certainly looking for some buffs for my spiderfangs/ Gloomspite!

Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Why, don't they frequently give balance a pass at Games Workshop?


If you mean do they frequently not bother with balance, then yes

If you mean do they frequently change points around and call it a balance pass, then yes they do do that quite often - but the game has always been one of the worst games from a balance perspective of most any game out there.
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






I should have added a smiley just to be sure.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





I hope they do something about Seraphon Coallesced. It's not that they're breaking the meta quite, it's just a really feel bad rule for more casual play. Especially with how it affects certain armies much more than others.

Ogors being a prime example, with many of their units losing half their offensive power for the entire battle. But it renders several units pretty useless in a bunch of armies.

The issue is its army wide, so the only way to play around it is to list tailor, if your army even can. I'd either make it a less powerful effect (eg instead of reducing damage by 1, reduce rend by 1) or make it apply to only 1 unit selected in your hero phase lasting until the next hero phase.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

I'm hoping that once the US Open is over (this sunday), we'll get the balance update next week.

"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Stux wrote:
I hope they do something about Seraphon Coallesced. It's not that they're breaking the meta quite, it's just a really feel bad rule for more casual play. Especially with how it affects certain armies much more than others.

Ogors being a prime example, with many of their units losing half their offensive power for the entire battle. But it renders several units pretty useless in a bunch of armies.

The issue is its army wide, so the only way to play around it is to list tailor, if your army even can. I'd either make it a less powerful effect (eg instead of reducing damage by 1, reduce rend by 1) or make it apply to only 1 unit selected in your hero phase lasting until the next hero phase.


Gw been doubling down on it on 40k. Expect more of it in aos rather than changing it.

2022 painted/bought: 38/38 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Stux wrote:
I hope they do something about Seraphon Coallesced. It's not that they're breaking the meta quite, it's just a really feel bad rule for more casual play. Especially with how it affects certain armies much more than others.

Ogors being a prime example, with many of their units losing half their offensive power for the entire battle. But it renders several units pretty useless in a bunch of armies.

The issue is its army wide, so the only way to play around it is to list tailor, if your army even can. I'd either make it a less powerful effect (eg instead of reducing damage by 1, reduce rend by 1) or make it apply to only 1 unit selected in your hero phase lasting until the next hero phase.


Coalesced is just more attacks and summoning, what is causal breaking about that? Many armies summon. Or is there something you mean that I am over looking? I don't really have a problem with Seraphon anymore for causal play, their old Battalions were extremely hard to handle for people that don't know how to handle it.

15k+
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 10k
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Summoning in and of itself is breaking because it adds free resources. In limited amounts its not that big a deal. In typical GW fashion thats often not the case.

I was told triple keeper of secrets spam summoning was "not that big a deal" a few years ago, and I had major problems with playing against that because I didn't find 4000 vs 2000 point games much fun, but to a lot of people it wasn't "that big of a deal" so your mileage may vary.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
I hope they do something about Seraphon Coallesced. It's not that they're breaking the meta quite, it's just a really feel bad rule for more casual play. Especially with how it affects certain armies much more than others.

Ogors being a prime example, with many of their units losing half their offensive power for the entire battle. But it renders several units pretty useless in a bunch of armies.

The issue is its army wide, so the only way to play around it is to list tailor, if your army even can. I'd either make it a less powerful effect (eg instead of reducing damage by 1, reduce rend by 1) or make it apply to only 1 unit selected in your hero phase lasting until the next hero phase.


Coalesced is just more attacks and summoning, what is causal breaking about that? Many armies summon. Or is there something you mean that I am over looking? I don't really have a problem with Seraphon anymore for causal play, their old Battalions were extremely hard to handle for people that don't know how to handle it.


I'm talking about the -1 damage. It just cripples the output of some armies.
[Thumb - 8bebc451.jpg]

   
 
Forum Index » AoS General Discussion
Go to: