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So again, I know Abnett is famous for not knowing the terms he is using, but in The Necropolis, there is a Vervenhive PDF(?) commander, a captain or a major, who lays into the enemy troops with his "Lightning claw". As I understood it there were no base human capable lightning claws? Like, not even lore, but the game doesn't even have them. There are power fists, and maybe he meant that? But a Lightning claw would need a power pack again as heavy as the person carrying it. I know I know, yada yada yada 40k is made up, but my question is this:

Can a regular human wield Lightning claws? Because if they can power Plasma weaponry with small enough batteries to make them man-portable, surely they can fit a powersource in a human's spiked gauntlet-thing. And hey presto, you've got a lightning claw. But was it ever a choosable option, for say, a Lord Commissar or a Company Commander?

There's been several humans using them in the fluff (and Dawn of War), but I don't think they've ever had rules.

I have to be honest, I don't take anything from the games as cannon. It's fairly horrible about the lore. Cyrus apparnently "left" the DW to return to the Blood ravens...Back flipping Terminators, Inquisitors working with Orks, Toth being a space marine librarian, etc.

1) Cyrus leaving the Deathwatch isn't actually that big of a deal. It's a tour of duty, not a permanent thing.
2) Backflipping Terminators is from the novels, not the games.
3) Inquisitors gonna Inquisitor. They've worked with Orks, Aeldari, Kroot, and done all kinds of shady crap. Not sure why that really breaks your beliefs on them?

 Kanluwen wrote:
1) Cyrus leaving the Deathwatch isn't actually that big of a deal. It's a tour of duty, not a permanent thing.
2) Backflipping Terminators is from the novels, not the games.
3) Inquisitors gonna Inquisitor. They've worked with Orks, Aeldari, Kroot, and done all kinds of shady crap. Not sure why that really breaks your beliefs on them?

1. I had no idea, I thought it was a life commitment. Thank you.
2. You need to play 3. You have the main character in Terminator armor doing flips all over the place.
3. Yeah, but Orks are a very far cry from the Eldar and the Tau/kroot. You can have an intelligent conversation with a farseer. You can't do the same with a Warboss. It's thematically the equivalent of having a train hitting another train at full speed. It snaps the player/ready/participant out of the established/built world and environment. Simply put: It's bad writing. I'm not saying it's impossible, but either Orks are blood thirsty/slaverying war driven plant beasts, or they are fashion divas with cockney accents and a 1600's naval pirate flair. It's just......bad.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
1. I had no idea, I thought it was a life commitment. Thank you.
2. You need to play 3. You have the main character in Terminator armor doing flips all over the place.
3. Yeah, but Orks are a very far cry from the Eldar and the Tau/kroot. You can have an intelligent conversation with a farseer. You can't do the same with a Warboss. It's thematically the equivalent of having a train hitting another train at full speed. It snaps the player/ready/participant out of the established/built world and environment. Simply put: It's bad writing. I'm not saying it's impossible, but either Orks are blood thirsty/slaverying war driven plant beasts, or they are fashion divas with cockney accents and a 1600's naval pirate flair. It's just......bad.

1. It can be a life commitment, but usually it's just 10/20 years or until the enemy in particular campaign is beaten. In fact DW book fluff states that pressed chapters often ask for their SM back early, even though it's seen as dishonour.
2. Dawn of War 3 features relic set of TDA from great crusade wielded by someone who is like 80% bionic. It's both not only not a typical TDA example, but HQ models do much weirder fluff than that in tabletop. The backflips thing is dumb 4chan meme.
3. You know Ork mercenaries are a thing and always had been, yes? Since Rogue Trader, even?

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Axes

 Irbis wrote:
3. You know Ork mercenaries are a thing and always had been, yes? Since Rogue Trader, even?

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Axes

Also, Amberley Vail (Ciaphas Cain's Inquisitor girlfriend) spoke Ork, and the recent novel Ghazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh! has Ork mercenaries working for an Inquisitor.

Inquisitor Vail "knew some of their dialect" but she clarifies there is no Fluent speaking of Ork, as it's mostly guttural noises and grunts. The are numerous examples of extremely high level orks speaking crude low gothic, but that's usually through a double or some mimicry. See: Weird boy in Shadowsword.

An ork that speaks fluent Gothic and has enough sensibility to have "fashion sense" is like a Nid trying to speak Eldar. It's not just uncommon. It's like every child born in a year being a blank.

Then again, this is all an attempt at making orks relatable for the videogames. One of the devs for DoW2: Ret talked about how they hated playing the Nids, because it was just screeching all the time, and no intelligable language. Contrast that with the Zerg Hive Minds, who basically spoke perfect English.

In order to make the orks a playable faction and race, they had to make them speak basic low gothic, hence that really bad cockney trope. ALL DEMS SPEAK DA BAD ENGLISH HUR HUR. Meanwhile The Necrons speak like a pompous rich guy from Beverly Hills who's martini was too dry.

I like my orks big, mean, and stupid. Not worrying about things like language, that just gets in the way of killing and fighting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So all this being said, All I can find is a Black library article that says there are human sized gauntlets with attached powered blades, which is essentially a lightning claw correct? Not a power claw like what Commissar losthisarmtoanork has right?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So again, I know Abnett is famous for not knowing the terms he is using, but in The Necropolis, there is a Vervenhive PDF(?) commander, a captain or a major, who lays into the enemy troops with his "Lightning claw". As I understood it there were no base human capable lightning claws? Like, not even lore, but the game doesn't even have them. There are power fists, and maybe he meant that? But a Lightning claw would need a power pack again as heavy as the person carrying it. I know I know, yada yada yada 40k is made up, but my question is this:

Can a regular human wield Lightning claws? Because if they can power Plasma weaponry with small enough batteries to make them man-portable, surely they can fit a powersource in a human's spiked gauntlet-thing. And hey presto, you've got a lightning claw. But was it ever a choosable option, for say, a Lord Commissar or a Company Commander?

Sure. We've had many, many examples of lightning claws just being power fists with blades on, so if there are human capable fists, there are human capable claws.
Plus, the power packs for power swords and even axes (and in a few cases knives) are even smaller, so with a whole forearm to work with, why would powering a couple small blades present a challenge?

Way back when in codex: daemonhunters it was an option for an inquisitor - and even for an inquisitorial stormtrooper sergeant (who got a *ridiculous* number of toys compared to his guard counterpart if you were prepared to pay - combi-weapons, lighting claws, even artificer armour).

locarno24 wrote:
Way back when in codex: daemonhunters it was an option for an inquisitor - and even for an inquisitorial stormtrooper sergeant (who got a *ridiculous* number of toys compared to his guard counterpart if you were prepared to pay - combi-weapons, lighting claws, even artificer armour).

Came here to say this.

Wow, nothing says look out like 2-3 S3 AP2 D1 attacks! Hitting on 3s?

Were they able to take them in the 4th Ed Codex? They had a huge variety of wargear available, if they could take them at all it would have been then.

In short? There’s nothing in modern lore preventing human scaled Lightning Claws.

Like the Thunder Hammer, they started life as specialist weapons for Terminator Armour. Thunder Hammers because the sheer force of impact would blast any other wielder off their feet. Lightning Claws were essentially Powerfists with the ability to party thanks to the blades - it wasn’t until 3rd Ed they became specifically anti-infantry.

So provided a Powerfist can be scaled to your body, so can a Lightning Claw. That there aren’t any seen in the game outside of Power and Terminator Armour is just One Of Those Things, likely related more to relative rarity than a specific necessity.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Were they able to take them in the 4th Ed Codex? They had a huge variety of wargear available, if they could take them at all it would have been then.

I had a look through the old 3-5e books, looks like the daemonhunters was the only example - though it could be taken as an HQ or Elite for a guard list.

There are all sorts of unusual weapons. It may not be possible to make lightning claws for humans but it doesn’t mean they never existed and the ones in question could be a relic from a lost age, I’ve seen examples of that in HH books (I haven’t read any 40K books).

Or some genius under the radar of the AD Mech might have made them.

I wonder if their generally unwieldy nature (not hitting yourself is half the battle) they’re simply not as practical as just lamping someone with a Powerfist.

What kind of claw/swipe motion are you imaging that it involves the possibility of hitting yourself?

The parrying.

Seriously. Sellotape some, I dunno, spaghetti or breadsticks to the back of your hand, and try to defend yourself against a friend trying to slap you.

I suspect it’s considerably harder that you’d imagine. I mean, Hugh Jackman kept stabbing himself when portraying Wolverine.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thunder Hammers because the sheer force of impact would blast any other wielder off their feet.

There's a short story where an Inquisitor (IIRC) tries to use a Marine's Crozius Arcanum and ends up critically injuring herself from the impact - both arms broken and internal injuries.

beast_gts wrote:
There's a short story where an Inquisitor (IIRC) tries to use a Marine's Crozius Arcanum and ends up critically injuring herself from the impact - both arms broken and internal injuries.

That would be Luce Spinoza. She survives and actually continues to use the crozius, albeit with its energy field turned down a bit and while wearing power armour.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The parrying.

Seriously. Sellotape some, I dunno, spaghetti or breadsticks to the back of your hand, and try to defend yourself against a friend trying to slap you.

I suspect it’s considerably harder that you’d imagine. I mean, Hugh Jackman kept stabbing himself when portraying Wolverine.

Back in the old days (Im sure you recall) it was specifically mentioned that Lightning Claws required special training and techniques to use effectively.

Colonel Bulwar is PDF from a different part of that planet than Vervunhive, he’s Northern Collectives. They call it a power claw, not a lightning claw, and I always assumed it was the same as any Elysian or Cadian power fist

https://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j168/Thomas9287/Commander2.jpg

Which are already pretty claw like, and it’s a common variant for power fists to have taloned fingers, as an intermediate toward chaos-style lightning claws

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140108180333/warhammer40k/images/4/40/Power_Fist_b%26w.jpg


I also think it’s because Abnett is a sharper guy than some parts in the 40k crowd. He could say power claw to emphasize the fingers. While some people here power fist and think punching, the classic crimson fists and rogue trader style power glove was used for tearing, crushing, manhandling, and sometimes just gouging. That’s what the pointer powerfist models are for and that’s what I figured Bulwar had.

Idk though, it could just be the dumb general Vance and Shrike versions.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The parrying.

Seriously. Sellotape some, I dunno, spaghetti or breadsticks to the back of your hand, and try to defend yourself against a friend trying to slap you.

I suspect it’s considerably harder that you’d imagine. I mean, Hugh Jackman kept stabbing himself when portraying Wolverine.

Back in the old days (Im sure you recall) it was specifically mentioned that Lightning Claws required special training and techniques to use effectively.

Pretty sure that’s entirely correct. I’ll check my books at some point in the not necessarily near future!

And I’ve looked it up, I guess because I should be doing anything else. There’s one scene where he uses it in combat

“Bulwar led the attack, breaking body armor with his power claw and shooting with his autogun. Troopers fell around him, too many to count. A las round struck his boulder and he was thrown backwards off his feet.”

Breaking sounds like a power glove more than it sounds like knuckle knives.

pelicaniforce wrote:
And I’ve looked it up, I guess because I should be doing anything else. There’s one scene where he uses it in combat

“Bulwar led the attack, breaking body armor with his power claw and shooting with his autogun. Troopers fell around him, too many to count. A las round struck his boulder and he was thrown backwards off his feet.”

Breaking sounds like a power glove more than it sounds like knuckle knives.

That's because a power claw is a synonym for a power fist (but scratchier...), not a lightning claw.

There's what the background has said, and what the weapon is, which is basically a couple of power knives strapped to a powered gauntlet. I imagine ALL the weird and wonderful weapons of 40k require specialist training and techniques due to their design, not just the lightning claw.

If a normal human can fight using mundane bladed gauntlets, then they should be able to use powered ones.

Lightning Claws are just fancy space Punch daggers or Tiger Claws. Parrying with them wouldn't be particularly dangerous unless you are parrying extremely oddly. You're not using them like swords, you're using them much more like boxing gloves.

You'd punch forward into the opponent's strike, twist your wrist to catch their blade, and then move your arm down and to the side to block and incoming attack. Attacking with them would be just using boxing strikes to do short jabs forward or occasional wide slashes, but mostly keeping it centered in a boxing stance.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Idk though, it could just be the dumb general Vance and Shrike versions.

If anything, it's the fist/claw versions that are stupid, because they are slow, unwieldy, and have short reach. Vance variant can be used to parry, has longer reach, and unlike SM models, the claws are retractable so when you're not in combat, they are basically harmless thick wrist protectors and you can use your full manual dexterity. I have no idea why so many SM models are power fists with butter knives welded on top of them, it's basically the worst of both worlds (and you aren't even getting Sx2 in the deal), Shrike and Sword Brothers models look like Cawl finally beat some sense into whoever was making them

So I might also mention that the model in the image above is basically a Cyberman at this point. A large percentage of his body is robotic. So saying he can't lift/wield something is sorta beggin my initial question. I could have sworn that a "Power claw" is what the Commissar who had his arm ripped off and replaced with an Ork bit has, and a "lightning claw" is what this guy has... https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/044/587/167/large/l-j-koh-red-wake-bloodier-for-portfolio.jpg?1640524184

Yarrick has a Power Klaw, distinct, important difference.